New (Small Home Studio) Build, Norway

What kind of glass should I go for in the control room? I have contacted the local glass shop and he listed up different alternatives. I have attached the table he sent me. So when I calculate the minimum thickness I needed the glass to be (1/3 of the thickens of my wall) ==> 25 mm (0,984 inch) /3 = 8,33 mm (0,328 inch). That gives me the minimum thickens of 8,33 mm (0,328 inch). But thicker is better, right?. So if I go for the Laminated tempered glass with thickens of 16,76 mm (0,66) that will a good choice. Or am i way of here? or should I consider the laminated glass to be two different thickness ref: in this blogpost: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17770#p124232 can anyone give me some feedback on this?

Anyone?

What kind of glass should I go for in the control room? I have contacted the local glass shop and he listed up different alternatives. I have attached the table he sent me. So when I calculate the minimum thickness I needed the glass to be (1/3 of the thickens of my wall) ==> 25 mm (0,984 inch) /3 = 8,33 mm (0,328 inch). That gives me the minimum thickens of 8,33 mm (0,328 inch).

You used two sheets of 1/2" drywall for your walls? If so, then your math is correct. You need at least 8.33mm LAMINATED glass for each leaf.

But thicker is better, right?. So if I go for the Laminated tempered glass with thickens of 16,76 mm (0,66) that will a good choice. Or am i way of here? or should I consider the laminated glass to be two different thickness

I've never heard of laminated tempered glass. Where I live, it's either laminated, or tempered. You want laminated. Ask your glass shop if they can get you glass made with "acoustic PVB" instead of regular PVB. It's not a deal breaker, but the acoustic PVB will drastically improve your coincident dip. So, looking at your chart, you should be able to go with the top most piece of glass. Greg

Gregwor wrote:

I've never heard of laminated tempered glass. Where I live, it's either laminated, or tempered. You want laminated. Ask your glass shop if they can get you glass made with "acoustic PVB" instead of regular PVB. It's not a deal breaker, but the acoustic PVB will drastically improve your coincident dip. So, looking at your chart, you should be able to go with the top most piece of glass. Greg

Thanks Greg for posting! I have emailed the glass shop asking if they can get acoustic PVB laminated glass.

New update. New Windows mounted on the outer leaf framing. Window casing built based on Stuarts suggestion in this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21396. Built as a unit with spasing between them finised up with cloth covering the gap between them. The glass for the inner leaf monted in the frame, sealed arround the edges and finised of with window lists.

I have just done the first measurement of my room with the REW measurement tool. The measurement was done based on Stuarts description here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21122 FYI: The room is finished without treatment. This is the first measurement before starting with the actual treatment of the room (superchunks, slots …) My gear setup: Mic: PreSonus PRM-1 Sound level meter: Extech-407732 Calibration: Calibration REW to sound card done as explained in the REW help section. See also attached pictures of my calibration process Let me know if I have done anything wrong with the setup or have made a mistake while measuring. Can you guys help me interpret the REW graphs? P.S. Stuart, I would really like to hear your opinion. What would you recommend as far as treatment goes for my particular room? My room is mall but hopefully some magic can be done with your help :) Find attached mdat file below. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aLSahUNZ9rhusix6d2TLjMWIHeCV7K8R

I have just done the first measurement of my room with the REW measurement tool. The measurement was done based on Stuarts description here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21122

Great! :thu:

My gear setup: Mic: PreSonus PRM-1 Sound level meter: Extech-407732

Good choice.

Calibration REW to sound card done as explained in the REW help section. See also attached pictures of my calibration process

:thu: You did it exactly right. For being a first measurement, the data is excellent! Good job calibrating.

Can you guys help me interpret the REW graphs? P.S. Stuart, I would really like to hear your opinion. What would you recommend as far as treatment goes for my particular room? My room is mall but hopefully some magic can be done with you help

The room is built "inside out", correct? That's what it looks like from the REW data. So the studs and joists are facing the room, and you have insulation in all the stud bays... Correct? It's actually looking fairly decent, and with reasonable prospects! You have modal issues at 39.7 Hz, 81.5 Hz, and 137 Hz. You also have a major SBIR (or perhaps combined floor-bounce) dip at around 96 Hz, and maybe again up around 280 Hz, but apart from those it is fairly smooth. The room is too dry overall, with only about 150 ms decay time: I would shoot for about 250 in that room. It's very dead between about 150 Hz and 2 kHz, but even above that it is too dead. But that's to be expected, if you built it inside out. So you are going to need some large reflective surfaces around much of the room, plus some targeted bass trapping for your modal issues, and some other stuff to deal with a few early reflections. Please post some photos of the room as it is right now, when you did the REW tests, and also post the final interior dimensions of the room (measured to the acoustic boundaries). A few pages back, you said that the final dimensions were going to be " L:4,20m x W:2,26 x H:2,64.", but I'm not sure if that's how it actually ended up? That sort-of matches the actual REW results, since with those dimensions you should have modes at 41 Hz (your 1,0,0 axial) and 82 Hz (your 2,0,0 axial), and I can see some vague evidence of your 0,0,1 axial at 66 Hz and your 0,1,0 axial at 76 Hz, but I can't see where you would get anything at 137 Hz.... your 1.0.2 tangential at 136.8, so that could be it, but it seems a bit large for a tangential that high up. So please confirm the dimensions. Over all, it's looking good, considering the size. That's a VERY small room, so it will need quite a bit of treatment, and it will be very hard to deal with your 96 Hz null effectively. That's just a very quick, basic analysis, as unfortunately I don't have time to go in-depth on that, as I'm working on several other things right now, for clients. But that should get you on the right track.

My room is mall but hopefully some magic can be done with you help

I'm a studio designer, not a magician! :) :shot: There's some stuff you can do to improve that, certainly, but with it being so tiny, it's not going to be easy at all... - Stuart -

You did it exactly right. For being a first measurement, the data is excellent! Good job calibrating.

Thanks allot Stuart! I really appreciate you taking the time to comment!

The room is built "inside out", correct? That's what it looks like from the REW data. So the studs and joists are facing the room, and you have insulation in all the stud bays... Correct? It's actually looking fairly decent, and with reasonable prospec

Yes!, the room is built "inside out", studs and joists are facing the room and all the stud bays are insulated.

You have modal issues at 39.7 Hz, 81.5 Hz, and 137 Hz. You also have a major SBIR (or perhaps combined floor-bounce) dip at around 96 Hz, and maybe again up around 280 Hz, but apart from those it is fairly smooth The room is too dry overall, with only about 150 ms decay time: I would shoot for about 250 in that room. It's very dead between about 150 Hz and 2 kHz, but even above that it is too dead. But that's to be expected, if you built it inside out. So you are going to need some large reflective surfaces around much of the room, plus some targeted bass trapping for your modal issues, and some other stuff to deal with a few early reflections.

Ok, so there is allot to keep in mind here when planning the next face in regards of what kind of treatments and where place them. Initially I was thinking of going with two floor-to-ceiling super chunks at the back of the room. One in the corner by the window and one on wheels by the door. At the front I was thinking I would go for partially slot walls on the sides with hangers in the two hangers in the front corner. Will the slot walls also work as a reflective surface. Any thoughts? Should I also consider hard-back cloud above the listening position, to help breaking up the modes / flutter between floor and the ceiling? What size should I go for here?

Please post some photos of the room as it is right now, when you did the REW tests, and also post the final interior dimensions of the room (measured to the acoustic boundaries). A few pages back, you said that the final dimensions were going to be " L:4,20m x W:2,26 x H:2,64.", but I'm not sure if that's how it actually ended up? That sort-of matches the actual REW results, since with those dimensions you should have modes at 41 Hz (your 1,0,0 axial) and 82 Hz (your 2,0,0 axial), and I can see some vague evidence of your 0,0,1 axial at 66 Hz and your 0,1,0 axial at 76 Hz, but I can't see where you would get anything at 137 Hz.... your 1.0.2 tangential at 136.8, so that could be it, but it seems a bit large for a tangential that high up. So please confirm the dimensions.

You correct Stuart as always. The room size stated in the earlier post is wrong. Im sorry about that. The actual room size is: Metric: - length: 3.79m, width: 1.92m, height: 2.35m Feet: - length: 12.4 ft, width: 6.3ft, height: 7.71ft As shown in the Room Mode Calculator it does not pass. https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=3.79&w=1.92&h=2.35&r60=0.6

There's some stuff you can do to improve that, certainly, but with it being so tiny, it's not going to be easy at all...

…Easy… Where's the Fun in That? :yahoo:

If anyone here who is reading this last posts has experience with small studio space and has had similar issues with their space in regards to treatment feel free to chip in with ideas or experienced result (pros/cons). :idea:

Anyone?.. Is there anyone that can comment on my plans in regards to reatment of the room. As shown in my latest scetchup for my treatment planes: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18593&start=45#p148435? - Em I on the right track in regards to Stuarts comment on the first rew test? - Do I need more reflection surfaces compared to the scetchup drawing . - With the slots will I get higher decay time? If not what else to do? Can I calculate this somehow? - Will the targeted bass trapping in the two back corners and the hangers in the front of the room work in regards to my modal issues? - Shold I also build a hard-back cloud above the listening position to help breaking up the modes / flutter between floor and the ceiling? What size should I go for here? Let me know. I will highly appreciate some help in this area. :thu:

Is there anyone that can comment on my plans in regards to reatment of the room. As shown in my latest scetchup for my treatment planes:

I know this is probably not the answer you're looking for, but I'd highly suggest you read this book (be stoked that this link allows you to get it FREE!) www.roletech.net/books/HandbookAcoustics.pdf In it, it describes pretty much everything you need to know about how sound "works" and how you can approach treating your space. With the knowledge you'll acquire from the book, you will have a great chance at being able to fix any issues that pop up during your acoustic measurement steps. Hope that helps! Greg

I know this is probably not the answer you're looking for, but I'd highly suggest you read this book (be stoked that this link allows you to get it FREE!) http://www.roletech.net/books/HandbookAcoustics.pdf In it, it describes pretty much everything you need to know about how sound "works" and how you can approach treating your space. With the knowledge you'll acquire from the book, you will have a great chance at being able to fix any issues that pop up during your acoustic measurement steps. Hope that helps! Greg

Thanks Gregwor for commenting. You are somewhat correct. Your answer was expected but I was hoping that someone would "pass forward" their knowledge without me haven to take a “degree” in Acoustics treatment :wink: … I guess its no way around it. Thanks allot for sharing the book. Much appreciated!! Happy new year!! :)

Thanks Gregwor for commenting. You are somewhat correct. Your answer was expected but I was hoping that someone would "pass forward" their knowledge without me haven to take a “degree” in Acoustics treatment :wink: … I guess its no way around it. Thanks allot for sharing the book. Much appreciated!! Happy new year!! :)

The author of the book is passing foward his knowledge with you having to take a degree in acoustics :D If you asked me to share my knowledge with you, I couldn't do a shorter and more precise version than the author. It really is to the point. There are a few "dry" parts that aren't super fun to read, sure. But, starting at the beginning and reading through it solidifies an understanding of acoustics that will allow you to apply it to the treatment stage of your build. There's really no other way to jump to the treatment stage without the fundamental background. The book is precise, short (considering), and it has great relatable applications throughout that make the concepts click. Happy new year to you as well! Greg

Once again; can't help you with any of your questions. Only want to say that it looks good! Did you get the level of sound isolation you were aiming for? Have you measured it?

Rain wrote:

Once again; can't help you with any of your questions. Only want to say that it looks good! Did you get the level of sound isolation you were aiming for? Have you measured it?

Hi Rain I have not measured the sound insulation yet. I have engaged a few hours from stuart to help me with some of the threetment design. When he is finished I will build it first before doing any other measurements. As of now I have been finishing the mixer desc. I wil post something soon. Bjorn

Here is an update of the studio mixer table. Got some help from my dad building this one based on my SketchUp drawings. I’m very happy how it turned out. :yahoo:

Wow! What did you use for wood and finish? Greg

Hi Greg

Gregwor wrote:

Wow! What did you use for wood and finish? Greg

Its basically only 22 mm Chipboard floor boards. The front is finished with foam rubber covered with a leather type fabric. As of the paint its a regular black/grey tough interior paint, nothing fancy :) Bjorn

I’m finally back again after some time planning and discussions with Stuart for the next steps in regards of tuning my studio. I had engaged some hours from Stuart to help me out with the design. The help I got from him was amazing and I have now started the building process. The work to be done is soffit-mount speakers, side walls slots, the back wall super chunks and finishing the fabric mount on the walls. I have attached some pictures below. More updates coming soon. Drawings: Started working on the front wall:

It's looking good, Bjorn! And there's still the ceiling cloud in the works... Don't forget the ceiling cloud! :thu: - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

It's looking good, Bjorn! And there's still the ceiling cloud in the works... Don't forget the ceiling cloud! :thu: - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart. Of course, the ceiling cloud. :P

Wow, this has been exciting to read over. Has me motivated to get back on top of my small space. Thanks for all the sharing!

audiomutt wrote:

Wow, this has been exciting to read over. Has me motivated to get back on top of my small space. Thanks for all the sharing!

Thanks! :-D. Good luck with your room and never give up! :jammin:

Side walls slots are starting to take shape :-D

Starting with the cloud construction next.