SIMO Studio - Construction Phase

Hi Simo, just had a skim around on the subject of skyline QRD/PRD, and a lot of people refer to this book. Just a thought. Kevin.

Ro - Thanks man! Eagerly looking forward to your next update ! Kevstar - Great, thanks a lot for the link, very interesting indeed !!

Hi everyone just trying to gather info about installing the windows, as I'm "nearly" there (or at least preparing for it...). I found the pic below browsing through the forum (along with lots of other - ofter conflicting - ways of doing it), so I was wondering if that is the correct way of doing it (if not could you explain it to me please?): where the 1/4" EPDM rubber (or neoprene) strips are shown in black and the closed cell foam (3/8" and 1/2") in grey. Also, I read that butyl tape should also be used under the glass for bedding it into the frame. Is that also true? If so, what thickness should I be looking for (I'll be using 15mm and 12mm laminated glass)? I'm just trying to figure out what needs to be under/around/above the glass, in order to get all the dimensions right. Thanks a lot in anticipation ! Ciao Simo

Hai Simo, I used the foam (grey) and sealant (kit) around the border of the glass (full gap fill). Ro

Thanks for you reply Ro, … Just to make sure: Did you place the foam between the glass and the wood stops, AND under the glass too (or you didn't bother about that?) and then seal all around, right?

Sorry, just found my answer (I think :oops: ). I'll go with: a) 5-6mm rubber (neoprene) setting blocks under the glass b) 3mm glazing tape between the glass and both the inner stop and the exterior trim c) butyl caulk to seal the perimeter Is this correct?

simo wrote:

Sorry, just found my answer (I think :oops: ). I'll go with: a) 5-6mm rubber (neoprene) setting blocks under the glass b) 3mm glazing tape between the glass and both the inner stop and the exterior trim c) butyl caulk to seal the perimeter Is this correct?

Is it correct? dunno, but it's exactly what I did :) Sealed round the glass and on top of the glazing tape, against the glass.

Hi everyone ! A few pics of the Live Room with all insulation in place: Soffit for live room air con. Both side will be filled with insulation (at the moment it's just one side, as I wanted to leave some space to make it a bit easier to install the unit...) : In the Control Room I went ahead by extending the air con soffit/panel up to the rear corner bass traps. I filled it with insulation…in front of which I will try to install the skyline diffuser as proposed a few posts before: These are the last two clouds for the live room …well, in my sketch up design they looked fine in that configuration, but as soon as I test them for real in the room I didn't quite like the result with all those contrasting angles… it just didn't look right in my opinion…. so I decided to disassemble them and I recycled the wood to make one bigger angled centre cloud instead: rear: front: and test mount them all together: LR: CR:

Now, since that the front cloud in the CR has a quite steep angle, it leaves me with some space above it which I didn't want to waste…so I decided to use the last few pieces of scrap timber to make a superchunk in the corner between front wall and ceiling (as they say…never too much low / lo-mid freq absorption on small rooms...) and a quick test with the front cloud to check the result: As the chain and hooks were just in the middle of this new frame, I had to build a sort of tunnel for them in order to be able to unmount the cloud (if needed) without having to undo the superchunk. Here's a pic to show what I did: I filled the tunnel with insulation though (easily removable) just to avoid it to resonate or for the chain to jingle along with the music (probably a bit silly, but what the hell…it took me 2 minutes to do it anyway…) The question is: I was planning to extend this front superchunk all the way until it reaches the side walls, like so: Do you think that doing so will somehow interfere with the speaker soffit effectiveness? I kind of feel that it won't, but just wondering if you can see a reason for not doing that? Ciao ! Simo

Hello all! So, I assume (hope) no answer to the front over-cloud superchunk question (on the previous post) means "all clear" then :cop: …thus... I have a fresh little new question just for you :twisted: I'm using Genelec 1031A to be soffit mounted. If you are not familiar with them, these are the switches on the back: So, considering that I will very likely couple them with a sub (I think the Genelec 7070A) would these adjustments be ok? (basically all flat, apart from the -4db switch on in the Bass Roll-Off section) Also, I'm planning to use these sorbothane hemispheresunder the speaker case (in addition to the 5mm sorbothane lining inside the case) as a further attempt to damp the mechanical vibrations transferring from the speaker to the soffit structure (as a total "floating mount"). What's do you guys think? Thank you very much in anticipation for any input ! Ciao Simo

I would also set the bass tilt to either -4 or -6 (test which gives you flatter response: probably -6). That's necessary due to the soffit mount. Basically, it reverses the baffle step compensation built into the speaker circuitry, since you don't need it any more with a flush mounted speaker. The soffit automatically corrects the power imbalance, naturally, so you don't also need the circuit that does the same thing. You may or may not need the bass roll-off, depending on how you connect the sub. If the sub does bass management itself, then you probably do not need the bass roll-off on the mains. - Stuart -

Thanks a lot for your quick response Stuart. Cool, that does make sense. I will set the Bass Tilt @ -6 then, and leave the Roll-Off flat, as according to the following pic, the bass management is in the Sub itself, as you predicted !Simo

Hai Simo, I'm assuming you're asking because you wanna set the levels before inserting the speakers in the wall. It's not easy to re-adjust at that moment. Another option would be to dismantle the back of the monitor and bring the controls to the front, including the amp (if the mon is active). That way you'll only mount the speakers (not the whole box) and keep the amp and controls within arms reach. It also solves your heat problem. just a thought.

Hey Stuart …just to clarify... I understand what you are saying about the Bass Tilt, But IF I will not have the sub as part of my monitoring system (budget :( ), shall I still leave the Roll-Off flat anyway?

Hi Ro, yes, that would be a much better setting indeed, which I would prefer... the problem is that I can't find anywhere the amp rack mounting kit for the 1031A amp… I know Genelec do (or used to do) the amp kit for the 1032, but I'm not sure if there is one for my 1031? (actually I just sent an email to Genelec this morning about that) this is the one for the 1032 (which I doubt there is one available for the smaller 1031A)...or do you know where I can find it? :D

me again… :oops: I went ahead and opened the Genelec :twisted: …. well, it seems to be easier than expected to extend the connection between the amp and the speaker (touching wood). I think I will give it a go, and if it works fine I'm going to rack mount the amp. The question now is where would it be better? An idea could be to mount them just below the speaker, through the plate extending down at the back of the studs (using the opened cavity with hangers for the amp ventilation), like so: This have the advantage of: - keeping a tidy looking setup - keeping the connection not too long … but the disadvantage of: - making the part below the speaker reflecting sound bouncing off the desk instead of absorbing it - having the power lead and the XLR sticking out of there (not sure if I like that…) Otherwise, another option I reckon could be to rack mount them on the back of the desk (which will be just in front of it), so they will be hidden, and have the leads running on the floor perhaps through a cable cover?What would you recommend? Thanks ! Simo

Hai Simo, A rack-mount is an easy DY job, and judging from your work so far I'm sure you are more than capable to do so. You can mount it anywhere you like. You can even mount in IN your desk or 19" rackspace. Your imagination, and the cablelenght, is the limit. I wouldn't mount it to close to the speaker, you might break the function of the baffle extension.

Thanks for the advise and encouragement Ro !! Yes, you are totally right - I'll avoid placing them on the lower baffle extension. I will extend the cable (I think around 3m) and rack mount the amps somewhere beside the desk (still working on ideas where to precisely) Thanks man :thu:

Agree with Ro: not on the baffle, if you can avoid it. But at the same time, you also don't want to extend those cables too much, as you might end up exposing them to interference, or changing the characteristics of the circuits. Up to a couple of feet would probably be OK, but I wouldn't go much beyond that. One guy whose studio I designed decided to mount his speaker controls on small panels that stick out sideways from the inner edge of the soffits, and it looks quiet neat. You only really need to adjust them while you are configuring the room initially, or when you change the room acoustics, so they don't need to be some place where you have to access them all the time. Once they are set correctly, they don't need tweaking, unless something big changed in the room. - Stuart -

Thanks a lot Stuart for your input ! ok…I'm don't know which way to go now... :horse: Before your post I was toying around with this idea (amps on the back of the rack underneath the desk)...something like that: But - I understand your point... Also, when you say:

simo wrote:

One guy whose studio I designed decided to mount his speaker controls on small panels that stick out sideways from the inner edge of the soffits, and it looks quiet neat.

Do you mean something like that perhaps? ...but I'm afraid that even with this configuration the cable would need to be at least 1.5m (perhaps even 2m) in order to reach it. …I'll think about it a bit more…mmmmh … otherwise I could always revert to the channel+vents option (even if I'd prefer the amps and speakers separated) ?!… :evil: :evil:

Simo - put it below the speaker like this:

Thanks a lot for your advice John ! I will find it very difficult to argue with that sir :D

Wouldn't worry too much about interference on your speaker cables. It's much higher power than your average audio/mic signal. Either add long balanced cables (xlr) from the desk to the amp or add long speakercables from amp to speaker. Tho the speakers are specifically designed the way they are, including short cable runs, so it should be tested. And testing will never hurt any-one :) I think your original idea to put'm a the back of the desk is an excellent idea. It's also the cleanest (as in not visible). Like Stu said, you won't reach for the panel that many time. Unless you plan to power on/off the amp every time.... To be fair, I think the option John showed is kinda ugly. But I know others would die for it, gearheads :)

Wow!... what a blessing all this help - thank you so much guys !! Ok, I had a chat with the technical engineer at the studio where I work, to get an additional point of view. In his opinion using appropriate cables - even with a long run - interference shouldn't be an issue (obviously always best to check first anyway). He wasn't sure if that would somehow change the speaker performance though... So the plan now is to go ahead and try to extend the cable the needed length and then simply test the result :D (it's not an expensive thing to do but surely worth it) ...and my decision ultimately depends on that. I agree Ro, "it won't hurt at all", and whatever the outcome I will just end up learning something new, so it's all good ! :thu: Regarding the amps position: I personally like what John did at Left Bank, but - unlike me - I have the impression that he planned it before building the soffit. In my case, the original idea was to use the ventilation channel with vent on the bezel (commonly seen around here). Thus, unless I dismantle the soffit and modify it to accommodate for the amp, it won't be easy for me to do it while still having much space for cooling. Considering all - assuming the test will give me a good result - I feel that the position behind the desk will be the best bet in my case, as (with it being an open space) it allows for a much better ventilation for the amps... (Switching the amps ON and OFF won't be a problem in whichever way I'll go, as I wired the two outlets where they will be plugged to a twin switch just below the window between the control and the live room). What I learned so far is that there isn't just one way to do things when designing/building a studio. As long as one understands the principles behind it, at the end of the day it's just a matter of taste. Thanks God we don't all have the same taste, otherwise it would be very boring indeed :blah: :blah: Thanks a lot again guys for keep looking over my shoulders - much appreciated!!! Ciao Simo

Agree 100%. Although I'd take what you said and re-phrase it just very slightly, by changing the punctuation:

There isn't just one way to do things when designing/building a studio, as long as one understands the principles behind it.

I reckon that pretty much covers it! :) - Stuart -