River Nile Build

Yes, the .5 in. max was an area of concern since this is for the fireblock between my inner and outer frame rather than small penetrations, though I did think that placing rockwool in the gap might help and give it something to adhere to. It is UL tested.

the use of rockwool is good - but don't over-pack it or it will create a flanking path between the 2 walls..... As far as the foam goes it is not approved for joints larger than 1/2"....... your joint is (apparently) larger than that regardless of the backer (for example - it is not approved for joint larger than 1/2" even if they have backer rod installed. It is not a matter of backing - but rather a matter of how long it last in the presence of flame...... It would actually expand and fill up a joint larger than 1/2" - but it would fail under fire conditions with joints that large. Use the rockwool and caulk either the underside or top side (whichever you can get to easier) with a commercial fire caulk...... that is an approved firestop. The fire caulk handles hot gas and the rockwool handles the flame. OR - at the top of the wall pad it out with drywall to shrink the joint to just 1/2".... then you can use the foam.... Either/or will work. Rod

Great! Thanks! That's kind of what I was thinking. Any idea of how large of a space the caulk can cover (using rockwool as backer rod)?

leadvox wrote:

Great! Thanks! That's kind of what I was thinking. Any idea of how large of a space the caulk can cover (using rockwool as backer rod)?

The caulk can cover joints as large as you want them to be - however the controlling factor here is not the caulk - but rather the backing. You have a limit of how wide a joint you can make with the rockwool of probably a 1 1/2 or so - larger than that and you would have to pack it too tight in order for it to hold itself in place - and packing it tight enough to do that would create the flanking bridge I explained earlier would be a problem. I generally try to hold joints to about 1" when using that system....... anything larger than that and I build out one of the walls to create a hard fire-block that shrinks the joint down to 1". Then you can use a 4psf rockwool and pack it to just 40% density....... it will stay in place and not be so rigid as to join the walls together... Rod

All of the mineral wool is installed, so some progress is being made on my build! I spoke with the head building inspector for my city today and he says that the mineral wool is sufficient for fire blocking and that no caulk is required since this is a residential single family home. Does this sound accurate to those in the know? :horse:

Hello Guys, So its been a while since i have posted and i have been working on and off on my room. Right now i am done with the Isolation part of my build,now its time for me to figure out the sofits and side walls. Room Dim:17'6''(L),12'3''(W) ,7'6''(H) I plan on shooting the speakers across the short side(i know its recomended to go the long way) but i prefer to work this way. :horse: . Here are some pics of what i got. I am planning on sof it mounting a pair of Single 15'' Augspurger that i have thier Dimentions are:19.5''(Deep)22.5''(Wide)32''(Tall) I build the room rectangular and plan on using the space behind sofits and back corners for traps. Any idea is welcome, especially yours Xspace :D i dont know if your still :cen: at me from last year but this form has brought my build to the next level. Thanks in advance to all who read.

"Any idea is welcome, especially yours Xspace :D i dont know if your still :cen: at me from last year but this form has brought my build to the next level." Come on man, I can't even remember last week much less last year:) But to be honest you are getting outside of my comfort zone and Glenn is really far better at these types of situations than I.. assuming John Sayers isn't available:)

xSpace wrote:

" Come on man, I can't even remember last week much less last year:) But to be honest you are getting outside of my comfort zone and Glenn is really far better at these types of situations than I.. assuming John Sayers isn't available:)

Hahahaha :D You kicked my :cen: last year and that forced me to do my research and i tell you ,its paying off. Thank Xspace

what type of console are you hiding under the tarp? what are you thinking about WRT to the side walls? angled treatment walls to the door with a cutout for the window? do you have the detailed specs on the monitor? the model i copied was a different size than what you describe.

Hello Gullfo, The console under the tarp is a Digi control24 in a Orgasy Stand.

gullfo wrote:

what are you thinking about WRT to the side walls?.

Bring me up to speed,what is WRT? (i am assuming it has to do with reverb time)

gullfo wrote:

angled treatment walls to the door with a cutout for the window?.

Yes,from reading this forum i saw where its ok to build the Iso walls rectangular and then use the space behind sofits for traps and also build angled side walls as resonator walls starting from about the Door/Window with cut out for glass. The thing is i cant draw and even though i have been on this forum researching for three years,i dont know how to explain in detail to a carpenter what i need done without some kind of drawing specific to my room dimentions. I was going off of John's small studio in sketchup that he posted but i can't exactly work out speaker angles,wall angles etc.. As far as the speakers go here is the deal, I have some Augspurger drivers and horns from a pair of the double 15'' cabinets you see all around in major rooms. Because i know i would not be able to use them in this small room,i came up with this great(expensive :evil: ) idea to have a smaller single 15'' cabinet built. I spoke to George and he said he will authorize Larry Jackson (from Jackson cabinets who makes all George's cabinet) to make me the new horns but he would have to charge to design a cabinet specific to my room or i could just have someone build one for me. I told him this is just my home studio and i can't afford all that and it might be a bad idea to spend all that money anyway. :blah: He pretty much told me the size the cabinets should be which is 3 cubic feet in volume.Larry gave me some measurment of 19.5''Deep,22''Wide,32'' TALL and you could taper the edges so you save a few inches here and there.So i know my sofits are gonna be around that with some mods. Hey Gullfo:are those dimentions you posted ok?,if so that would even be better if it could be that smaller. Any help in designing the sofit wall would greatly be apreciated,the carpenter i am using and i dont speak the same language so thats another problem i face. :cry: I get so much ideas here i am now more confused as to what to do with the back wall also,the only shure thing is the two back corners are gonna get insulation cut into tringle behind fabric. The lower part of the back wall i was thinking Low Bass panel traps and above that High bass traps covered in fabric so to make it absortive. with a soffit along back wall for recess lights and more trapings. Sorry for the long winded reply.

ah, you youngsters :roll: WRT = "with regards to" the design i have for a single 15" Augsperger monitor as shown is about 4.5ft3. let me know about the side walls.

gullfo wrote:

ah, you youngsters :roll: WRT = "with regards to".

Hahahaha :lol: :lol: :lol: I was thinking way too technical. I found this drawing on the forum of what i plan on doing for the side wall with the window. And the same without the cut out opposite of course. It would stop where the sofit starts etc.. Gullfo : the single 15'' diagram you posted i much smaller the the measurements Larry gave me,that would work better so dont have to use lots of space. do you make cabinets? i would definately pay you to biuld them for me.I have to get them made somewhere so. The speakers you see in my pics are some custom made double 7'' with a 6'' ribon tweeter and a passive radiator on the back ala the barefoot audio stuff.But i lost touch with the guy who i collaborated with on them.His company is in Orlando called T.W.D audio. What do you say ,i''ll make a serious contribution to a your favourite charity on your behalf and to this site ofcourse for some help with the accoutics and sofit drawing :lol: :lol: :lol: . Cause i know i cant afford what its worth to do it right. Hope i dont offend the forum for that,if i did i appologise. I have been waiting a long time to build my own man cave and i'm just overly anxious.

the angled window looks right except to fit in the soffits on the short way (like you want) that window will need to be smaller front to back. this way the soffits can be angled correctly and sized appropriate. i don't build cabinets but you should sit down with your local builder and discuss the dimensions and the performance. if he has experience building these types of speakers i would use his advise. my drawing is based on some Augspurger monitors i did a design for a while back and those where the dimensions the owner provided. then again, many times George designs monitors for a given situation and therefore may have been sized for a specific response for a specific room...

Hey Gullfo, So i finally decided i am not going to soffit mount the Augpurgers after all. I am going to go with something like this guys front wall ,but what you think about ply finis on the top where the speaker sofit would have been and fabric covered bass trap on the bottom? And i plan to come off the front wall enough to have hangers in the corners. Below the guys room are some pictures of my back wall and corners framing for traps.The face of the corners are 46''(i read where Ethan said it should be over 3' to start be effective). I was planing on putting slots over those corners,and the bottom halph of the back wall will get 1/4'' ply face followed by 2'' fiberboard 2'' off the drywall. Accoustically sealing the space behind ofcourse. The traps are 4'' deep which i striped from 1''X6'' to get exactly 4'' depth because (as you know 2''X4'' IS NOT really 4'' but 3.5'')

You have three framed walls here...why is that? download/file.php?id=37948

xSpace wrote:

You have three framed walls here...why is that? http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/downl ... p?id=37948

I just thought i would go for that lower isolation in that three leaf system everybody seem to hate so much. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Just kiding, that middle 2''X6'' wall was a load bearing wall so instead of going through the expensive route of putting in some kind of beam accross, i just build my rooms on either side as if it's not there.If you look close you'l see that it's a few inches back out of the way of the two rooms on both sides. So that ended up giving me a doorway thats 17'' which is good as far as isolation between live room and control room but a :cen: to find wood for the door jamb.

you will though have the slight angles on the front corners to ensure enough depth?

Gullfo, I didn't understand your question. How much degrees you think i should go on the side walls based on the dimentions i gave? I plan to start the side walls right at he door way.same on other side. Also does anyone know where i could get wood for a 17'' door jamb? or how could i do the doorway? i only want one door not the two door setup. Glen also take a look at the corner traps.Do you see how i stoped it at the top of the door? why i did that was because the light sofit above comes out 12'' AN I WAS going to seal up there and use that area above for some 12'' X9.5'' deep fabric faced bass trap. I was going to use perforated pegboard covered with a thin upolsters spong wraped in fabric as the front. What do you think?

Rivernile wrote:

Also does anyone know where i could get wood for a 17'' door jamb? or how could i do the doorway? i only want one door not the two door setup.

You would get (2) 1X10X 3/4 pieces of jamb material...this will give you approx. 18 1/2" of board width not including the space/gap that you will introduce in this assembly.

in your example photo you see the front corners are angled out as if soffited, behind this same space you build in your room you would also build out the trapping. since the back wall is so narrow, you need to put as much trapping up front and on the sides and overhead so the back wall is your reflection control there and the front, side, top deal with the LF energy control.

Ok Glenn i got you . That was what i plan on doing.I ordered some 2'' 703 for the middle section of the back wall. For the two back corners,since i will be putting slots on front should i cut rockwool into tringles and fill these corners or should there just be a sheet of insulation hanging accros the face? Also i have a bunch of 1'' rockwool board where is best locations for those? on the side slot walls? thanks

xSpace wrote:

Rivernile wrote:

Also does anyone know where i could get wood for a 17'' door jamb? or how could i do the doorway? i only want one door not the two door setup.

You would get (2) 1X10X 3/4 pieces of jamb material...this will give you approx. 18 1/2" of board width not including the space/gap that you will introduce in this assembly.

Brien You lost me on the last sentence of your post.I look at the drawing in Rod's book and the Jamb goes straight across connecting the two frames as he stated that you dont loose much isolation from doing that. Did i miss something? because you said something about the space i would be intoducing.

If you have the skills you can make a board as wide as you want, but assuming that this is not something that anyone wants to approach from ground zero...you get the 1x material that is close to your span and install that as a jamb trim board, caulk the space that will exist since what you purchase from the lumber store will be less than the total span you are trying to seal. You have a 17 inch span. The nearest 1X material that will make this bridge (X2) will be 1X10 (which is approx. 9 1/4 inch board X2 will be 18 1/2 inches) My bad :)...what space would you have with 18 1/2 inches of board, you are saying, bad math on me:) Anyway...18 1/2 inches of board, rip them down each to 8 3/8 inch each will give you 16 and 3/4 inch total jamb with a gap of 1/4 inch to caulk. Does that make more sense?

Oooohhh Ok Brien, i understand now. So what if i use the two 1X10 and make a kind of toungue and groove joint to join them and then glue that together then rip that down to 17''? This way i dont have to deal with the caulking and the posibilities of missing a same space? Could that work or just stick to your plan?

Brien I thought about it ,it would be better with your way since i would not have that hard connection between the two assembly. It would be sealed by the Flexing of the caulk correct? Also in Rod's diagram is the rockwool has to go from top to bottom and also on the top overhead part? Or is it only small pieces at the top and bottom?