Jam Room

TYPICAL USES: SM5430 is designed for factory sealing the female lip of a concealed standing seam roof (SSR) rib, as well as wall panels and polyurethane foam panel joints where a positive seal is required in mechanically fixed joints. - Specifically formulated for precise application into concealed panel joints for roll forming lines - Excellent for factory sealing standing seam roof panels and end laps - Excellent for sealing between dissimilar metals to prevent electrolysis - Excellent for use as an acoustical sealant :) - Excellent surface wetting over a wide temperature range - Excellent for sealing hidden details in window and door installations; bedding of mounting fins and flashing and sealing end dams and receptor pans - Excellent for sealing base plates to concrete slabs before anchoring ADVANTAGES: - Excellent adhesion to GALVALUME®, GALVALUME PLUS®, ACRYLUME® and KYNAR 500® - Will not corrode GALVALUME® or copper - Not stringy or messy to apply - Excellent pumpability provides a smooth, clean application - Panels can be erected in the field for up to six months after being factory caulked - Panels can be easily separated after extended periods for repair and maintenance - Good gunnability during field application to end laps Its fate, my friends.. This room is meant to be! :) How else could you explain me being lucky enough to inherit unlimited amount of acoustical caulk? And the awesome AC Unit? And possibly the ultra cool heavy foam panels? And then there's the expertise provided here.. I'm convinced this is all necessary :) Does anyone know what a case of this stuff normally runs? just curious. The acoustical caulk I priced was approx. $110/case. Sorry.. I'm excited as hell about this room. :) Can't believe I've stumbled onto so many savings, thanks to great friends/family. \m/

This product, that you fail to mention by name, seems to do EVERYTHING. Acoustic caulk does one thing. So, my friend, it is not only not the be all end all, but it is not a sign from the god that you believe in that this is a done deal. If you proceed with this type of voo-doo thinking, your studio will be a mess.

This product, that you fail to mention by name

I'm pretty sure that I mentioned more than just the names of the products in our discussion. I did not, however, get the name of the described metal/foam panels and made note of such. Apparently, you've mistaken my savings-induced optimism for idiocy or blind-submission. I apologize for giving you the wrong impression and hope for a future in which you'll better understand my humor as friendlyness and not umm..

voo-doo thinking

Yeah, that..

the god that you believe in

Lets try to stay on topic, please..

seems to do EVERYTHING

Sweet! Now we're communicating!

your studio will be a mess

This sounds like some kinda voo-doo hex.. I thought we were cool, man! Ok.. ok.. I promise, no more "caulky" celebrations. :D John, it took me a minute to realize that Jaime's basement studio is in Maryland, :) Whereabouts if you don't mind me asking? (late edit: just noticed the link). That really is a work of art; I'd love to hear a recording. I'm a bit confused by the SANYO link. Does this suggest that you're not endorsing my exchange chamber? :p

I apologize for the delay. Since my last post, I've survived 2 blizzards (unordinary for this area.) We had over 30" of snow! I'm happy to report, however, that the drywall remains safe & dry :) xSpace had pointed out, after looking at thru my initial photos, that there is an old door in the back that will be covered by the exterior mass drywall. I've attached additional closeups of this "flaw". Its very strange how the previous owner or builder "rigged" this particular piece of the structure. I'm hoping to avoid reframing the entire wall.. As mentioned, though, I'm curious how you all would handle this situation. Would it hurt my isolation if that wall (East wall) consisted of an additional corner? So the drywall would go, from left to right, overtop the door, turn inside an inch and then overtop the rest of the wall.. Thoughts? Thanks! \m/ -Pick edit: What if I use additional sheets of drywal to fill in the east wall? Then the planned 2 sheets overtop the door, once evened?

As far as the door goes - I would loose the existing framing completely - leave the rest of the wall - nd frame the doorway opening to match the existing - I really do not like the roll I see in the existing framing that serves as the header. where did you get the idea that you want your second sheet to be installed with laminate screws? What do you think you gain with that? Those are only supposed to be used when sheets are glued together - and gluing sheets together is a bad idea when it comes to isolation. Rod

Hello Rod. I must thank you for your book. If I can "pull off" this project, it will be in great thanks to your hard work and knowledge. Laninate screws... I must've picked up the idea somewhere. I was under the impression that screws, placed incorrectly, can create a flank.. Assisting sound traveling into the studs?? I appreciate the headsup, if thats incorrect. I know.. For some odd reason that small piece of the structure is completely rigged.. I'm afraid to remove anything, in that mess. I'll cover it somehow.. I'm assuming I have to keep everything solid, correct? All voids, even in the drywall, must be filled. Then I have the fancy caulk.. i'll go crazy with that stuff. I believe its page 128 in your book where you discuss Exchange Chambers and offer two plans. Being forced to use a nice "window" AC/Heater (specs discussed previously), do you think this is my best option? Also, I'm unsure how to determine the proper space needed for such a chamber. I have a friend who's offered to create and install any necessary duct work. Thats a plus. Any tips? :) i really should buy a drywall lift..

Can you post a link to the data that shows gluing sheetrock fully to the previous layer reduces isolation, please, Rod, thanks.

I'd take his word on it. Rod wrote the book on it, literally. ha

sorry, Arsenic, but it takes data and proof. just read when people say "oh this worked for us"..... they get shot down in flames. soooo.. I'm sure Rod has proof, and not just "it worked in the past" and I'd like to read it. thanks

I got Knightflys take on it, with his interpretation on thoughts from Eric Desart: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=634&start=0 A view in favor of laminate panels(1973), and early explanation of the usefulness of adding shearing ability(think green glue) to laminate panels: http://www.box.net/shared/jcaoavdc8g I have the actual document that speaks directly to this, maybe a link from Rod or Avare...but I have yet to produce it :) Hope this is useful to you.

Alright Alright.. The snow has finally cleared, ending what turned out to be a record breaking winter, and we've recently been blessed with some much needed 50-60 degree days. Spring is now in view, on my desk calendar, and I've begun to start thinking about summer plans (Cedar Point!?:) On to the Room.. I decided to start with the External, South, Wall that was previously an opening. Screwing 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, followed by the (T-11?) Exterior Sheathing, onto the outside of the framed wall. Everything was caulked profusely with the acoustical caulk mentioned in a previous post. I then added an additional 2 layers of 5/8" drywall, as panels inside the studs grid. These panels were measured/cut super tight, to avoid having screw holes; Caulking was used profusely, including between the 2 panels. We've decided against using the HVAC "Window" Unit, discussed in a previous post. My Dad wanted to cut a hole in the isolated room, to use the unit, and I explained my reasons for disagreeing with the plan. He found the Exchange Chamber idea to be humerous and expressed concern for energy consumption involved. So, after this, I can be found in the heating/cooling threads.. This is a very small room so I'm hoping to find a fairly inexpensive solution. I believe I'm looking for a Mini-Split system? We shall see.. In meantime, I'll likely start hanging drywall on the other 3 walls/ceiling. Is it necessary to use Drywall "Tape"? Should I be using a vapor barrier? :| All input/criticism is much appreciated. Thanks! :) -Pick edit: I'll be sure to post some photos asap

it is not necessary to use tape. I am a retired drywall finisher. As long as you leave a gap to be caulked. taped drywall is to be kept at (i always recommended) 58 degrees or it will crack just like an asphalt road can. freezing and thawing will "pop" your joints- butts and long joints. with caulk it can expand and contract without cracking. I'm not using tape but caulk, real good and clean, then spread some mud on the joints. less the better. the tape won't be able to hide a crack, if you get settling later. vapor barrier just before 1st layer of sheetrock, where you live.

Awesome info, Berner. Thanks for the input! Please clarify "vapor barrier just before 1st layer of sheetrock". So I should have a vapor barrier towards the inside of the structure, on the outer mass (i'll have a dbl wall)? Or the outside of the structure? I'm guessing that you mean vapor barrier will be on the very outside of my exterior mass, shielding everything from moisture. However, I have to ask just to be 100% positive. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks again! :)

Caulking was used profusely, including between the 2 panels.

Let me understand this: You put up a sheet of drywall, then spread caulk over it, then put another layer of drywall on top of that? Is that what you mean by "including between the 2 panels"? If so why would you do that? What possible benefit could you get from that? - Stuart -

Arsenic wrote:

Awesome info, Berner. Thanks for the input! Please clarify "vapor barrier just before 1st layer of sheetrock".

Your vapor barrier will install directly onto the interior side of your interior framed walls. This presumes that you do not have an existing barrier, that you have taken all the interior boundaries down to include the existing (assuming there is one) vapor barrier.

That's where I was saying to put the barrier, as long as you get it figured out. Another good tip; use a fresh blade in your utility knife, and carefully, almost surgeon like, cut a v shape in your butt joints and along your angles (inside corners)then dust. Easier to caulk and superior quality. In the early 90's there was a big batch of drywall that had flaws in the manufacturing, where they cut the endo, the blades got dull or ??? anyway we had butt joints popping in alot of houses we had just finished. The reps came out, plus others had to have experienced the same thing. You could go to the end of the sheet and run your hand and pull the face paper back. A factory cut was inferior to one you scribed and cut. Cutting a v cured this but it is a lot more work. I have cut every butt since then to insure the finish holds up. Alot of people can make drywall look good but, looking good years down the road takes skill and understanding that fewer posses. When you cut an angle on the end of the sheet it increases the purchase area of your caulk or mud or whatever. Where is it going to crack? At the gap? or at the surface of the paper? It doesn't know. IT DOESN'T CRACK! You could say I'm a crack specialist. :) While you have your blade out cut out any little imperfection, down to gyp or white. If you leave any brown paper showing from the layers.And all it is layers and layers. Each time a layer gets wet it will lift and separate. When you paint, it will be the last thing you do, there in getting it wet and it will lift. so cut it out at the beginning. IF you do get something that lifts or blisters(after paint), get an large or vet syringe, with thinned elmers glue. Make a SMALL insertion, squirt a little then roll it out with wall paper roller. Best to cut it out before hand. Hope this helps someone. :D

gn87berner wrote:

That's where I was saying to put the barrier, as long as you get it figured out.

What you are saying is this. I will tell you what to do, but you have to verify it somewhere else:)

He found the Exchange Chamber idea to be humerous and expressed concern for energy consumption involved.

Humorous? Why on earth would it be humorous? It's a damn good solution to a complex engineering problem, if you ask me, and at very low cost! What could possibly be funny about that? And why would he be concerned about energy consumption? That makes no sense. If you build the whole thing right, energy consumption would be pretty much the same as for any other method, probably even LOWER than for some methods! The exchange chamber acts as a plenum, basically. Why would energy consumption be an issue with that? It would only be funny and worrisome for someone who does not have much of a clue about the issues, AFAICS.

xSpace wrote:

What you are saying is this. I will tell you what to do, but you have to verify it somewhere else:)

If you say so. Actually I said where the barrier goes "before your first layer of drywall" But...if someone couldn't understand that. Keep asking, until you get it figured out. Man you read a lot into peoples posts. Like thinking I'm insulting the whole south(on other thread)?? Stop trying to read something that isn't there.

Soundman2020 wrote:

Caulking was used profusely, including between the 2 panels.

Let me understand this: You put up a sheet of drywall, then spread caulk over it, then put another layer of drywall on top of that? Is that what you mean by "including between the 2 panels"? If so why would you do that? What possible benefit could you get from that? - Stuart -

I used to 2 layers of 5/8" dw outside my ext. wall studs, followed by the ext. sheathing. Then, on the inside of that wall, i installed "panels" inside each space created by the studs. These "panels" consisted of 2 layers of 5/8" dw caulked together. So, except for where there are studs, there are some parts of this wall with 4 layers of 5/8"dw. I wanted to be sure that, this wall especially, was extra awesome. This wall aims at a nearby store and the last thing I want are for people to realize what this room contains. I was concerned with a few screw holes/imperfections and my hope is that these extra panels MIGHT make up for any flaws I had created. I caulked the 2 layers together, creating said "panel" so that I could avoid having any screws/holes that would help sound pass thru. An overkill, perhaps. I'll only get one shot at this, though, so the panels will help me sleep better at night, if for nothing else :)

xSpace wrote:

Arsenic wrote:

Awesome info, Berner. Thanks for the input! Please clarify "vapor barrier just before 1st layer of sheetrock".

Your vapor barrier will install directly onto the interior side of your interior framed walls. This presumes that you do not have an existing barrier, that you have taken all the interior boundaries down to include the existing (assuming there is one) vapor barrier.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm relieved to learn that the VB will be installed on the interior wall, as I've already proceeded with some ext. walls. There is no existing VB, except for Paint (if thats considered a VB) on the Ext. sheathing. Thanks again!

Soundman2020 wrote:

He found the Exchange Chamber idea to be humerous and expressed concern for energy consumption involved.

Humorous? Why on earth would it be humorous? It's a damn good solution to a complex engineering problem, if you ask me, and at very low cost! What could possibly be funny about that? And why would he be concerned about energy consumption? That makes no sense. If you build the whole thing right, energy consumption would be pretty much the same as for any other method, probably even LOWER than for some methods! The exchange chamber acts as a plenum, basically. Why would energy consumption be an issue with that? It would only be funny and worrisome for someone who does not have much of a clue about the issues, AFAICS.

This disagreement turned into a huge argument.. My Dad is a retired HVAC Something or Other so this likely seemed very unpractical to him. i explained that building an isolated room consists of many unconventional building methods. I think by the time Energy Consumption entered the conversation, he was basically looking for any reason to say "No, youre not doing that.. " This being his house, I tried my best to show respect for HIS Energy Bill.. He's a somewhat hard-headed dude, though. I guess he was concerned that the unit would be running too hard for too long, for whatever reason. I thought it was a great idea and was looking forward to it. In order to come to an agreement, however, I eventually had to cave and say "Fine.. we'll go with a ductless solution" just to keep peace. The worst part is that we had acquired an awesome "thru-wall" unit for basically Nothing. So this is an expensive change of plans. So.... Anyone want to buy a thru-wall unit? :P (specs on Page 2, i believe).

Here's a few photos that I snagged from a friends facebook page, just to give you an idea..

gn87berner wrote:

xSpace wrote:

What you are saying is this. I will tell you what to do, but you have to verify it somewhere else:)

If you say so. Actually I said where the barrier goes "before your first layer of drywall" But...if someone couldn't understand that. Keep asking, until you get it figured out. Man you read a lot into peoples posts. Like thinking I'm insulting the whole south(on other thread)?? Stop trying to read something that isn't there.

If you say it, own it. You said two things and refused ownership: "vapor barrier just before 1st layer of sheetrock, where you live." "That's where I was saying to put the barrier, as long as you get it figured out." A piece of plastic on the wall is not, and you can quote me, an absolute. Excepting your lack of support for this information you gave, I do not have issue with you as much as you might believe. It's the information, and the information only. Heck, I don't know you boss :) Depending on the materials, a vapor >barrier< is not always a given. Matter of fact, even where both of you guys live, it is not a given to use a piece of plastic on the walls as a means to impede moisture from leaving the inside of the room (is that news to you?) in an attempt to get back to the colder side or side with the less pressure on/in it. But if you >do< have to use it...should you use it in the ceiling? These are the things that I am still trying to get a handle on. Reason being is that this is not a residential framed home...and everything changes. But if I >do< say that you need one, and if you >do< say that he needs one, then let it be presented with >support< rather than being a drywall guy which basically has nothing to do with the design of a structure, or a carpenter, that only drives the nails into the wood that the structure is assembled with.

Arsenic, use paper faced insulation, it helps get your vapor barrier in the correct location. It will also help with keeping the fiber storm down. Staple inside your stud cavity rather than on the face of the studs. This will aid in finding studs when rocking and help prevent fastener failure or "popped" screws. If you have more questions you can PM me.