Key posts: double leaf effect cost more than triple in most situations.
Substantial posts by andy svejda, who started the thread, and by the forum’s most active contributors. 54 of 129 posts are listed.
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andy svejda, 22 September 2009I'm a construction contractor in new york city who specializes in soundproofing. so in this topic you could say that i am discussing some of the "anomalies" of the "room…
andy svejda, 23 September 2009spamming for cellulose was not the intention nor did i display any number or business name that would gain me business. this is a forum and i will respect it so. If you…
Soundman2020, 23 September 2009If it really is a "pro" room, which is what you postulate in your hypothetical situation, then yes, that's exactly what I'd suggest! And even if it is just an average…
Eric_Desart, 23 September 2009Stuart, I think you say a lot of similar things than Andy. You just pick out one sentence. Andy states that a double leaf is more efficient than a triple leaf. He states…
andy svejda, 23 September 2009Thanks for the chart and sorry for asking questions when the answers are already there in the math. I just though if there is any more besides the math to be said on…
Eric_Desart, 23 September 2009Don't be sorry for whatever, certainly not for asking questions. You should be more careful however in making explicit statements about specific products, unless you can…
andy svejda, 24 September 2009thanks everyone for your response to my "kinda" "hypothetical" but "common" issue i've run across with soundproofing in NYC. I'm using this forum to clarify the…
Soundman2020, 7 October 2009Yep: Image not preserved: 2-leaf-vs-3-leaf-700pix.jpg 3b_leaf_studiotips.GIF And if you want the theory behind it, with abundant examples and numerous real laboratory…
Soundman2020, 7 October 2009Yep, but I don't remember where. It was either on Gearslutz or Studiotips, where someone who was in the process of building their studio reported accidentally creating a…
Soundman2020, 7 October 2009Fortunately for acoustics and studio builders, what you "believe" is irrelevant: all that matters is the science. Science works despite what you believe, not because of…
Soundman2020, 7 October 2009I read it, and I gave you the data (perhaps you didn't notice, since I updated my post to add more). You state quite clearly that you do not believe that adding a third…
Eric_Desart, 8 October 2009You choose an extreme. Inserting means putting in between. But more important you compare STC which isn't representative for the Low frequencies which you explicit…
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Eric_Desart, 8 October 20091) picture entered by Stuart: viewtopic.php?p=94540#p94540 2) Document linked by Brien: viewtopic.php?p=94553#p94553 Referring to Brien's link 2) : Ted you like slogans…
Eric_Desart, 8 October 2009Ted, I was still editing my post (crossed). I compared wall 2 (double leaf) with wall 4 (tripple leaf). I estimated that empty cavity a bit less than the thickness of…
Eric_Desart, 8 October 2009That what everyone is saying is correct. A triple leaf system varies between bad, risky and inefficient unless the cavities become that large (frequency dependent) that…
rod gervais, 8 October 2009Ted, that's because it doesn't........ no question that adding the 3rd leaf - with additional air spring - some more mass and insulation will improve the existing 2 leaf…
rod gervais, 8 October 2009Andy, if you don't mind I am going to stick my 2 cents in here....... The above is spoken like a true contractor - but not an acoustician....... It is very true that…
rod gervais, 9 October 2009Guys, calm down for a second and follow this in a rational manner - Ted is absolutely correct in what he is saying, and the chart proves it...... We think in terms of…
Eric_Desart, 9 October 2009Don't confuse critical frequency (referring to coincidence) with Mass-Spring resonance. Indeed concrete blocks and glass bricks behave as single leaf (hollow or not) You…
Eric_Desart, 9 October 2009An Example : http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/p ... c44692.pdf A Simple model of the sound insulation of gypsum board on resilient supports Bradley, J.S.; Birta,…
AVare, 9 October 2009Thanks Rod. I was giving an example of where adding a third leaf reduces LF TL. As far as the original question, or statement goes, I can not figure out exactly what the…
rod gervais, 9 October 2009xSpace, the chart I am referring to is the one posted by Stuart...... take a look at it please...... In the most simple of forms........ if you begin with a single stud…
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xSpace, 9 October 2009And that comment from a man that proudly displays a soundproofingcompany.com link in his sig. Well I admit I have no idea to what the suggestion that Mr. White is…
Eric_Desart, 10 October 2009Lou, You have all reasons to be proud on your work and studio. But from a building physics point of view, I'm really sorry, that's a stupid design showing that these…
Soundman2020, 10 October 2009I'm trying to get my head around this. Eric, wouldn't a 7-leaf wall have all kinds of internal resonance issues? Wouldn't it also have a pretty high over-all resonant…
Eric_Desart, 10 October 2009Stuart, I doubt (99 % sure) that anyone can calculate/simulate that. One can calculate simple systems at straight incidence, but room acoustics adds a lot of unknowns…
Soundman2020, 11 October 2009You know, the more I look at those drawings, the more things I see that confuse me. Like this section around the toilet and vocal booth, for example:…
xSpace, 15 October 2009It looks like a lot of fun but most of what you guys are doing is making fun of a man who made some mistakes and the cost was to him, not any of you. I think, for me,…
Eric_Desart, 15 October 2009xSpace, Knowing Lou is a member, and reading some of his enthusiastic and professional, super organized work, seeing the interior of his studio I know he can be proud,…
Soundman2020, 15 October 2009Brien, I really don't see it that way. I don't think anyone is making fun of Lou, or his excellent thread, or his incredible dedication, nor his finished, successful…
rod gervais, 15 October 2009xspace, my comments were not directed at Lou in the least - but rather at the people he paid good mony to - in good faith. People who present themselves as…
Lou, 20 October 2009Holy shit - Er uhm?...............................................Sort of thanks guys I guess? To the two 'newbies' that very clearly haven't read my entire thread or…
cadesignr, 18 January 2010Hi guys. I don't know if this is the best place to put this, but it seems more relevant here. The more I read, the more I search, and the more I search, the more…
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John Sayers, 18 January 2010This is a similar design to lou's studio. The center walls are built first and they connect to the outer walls and the floor/ceiling. Then the inner rooms are floated, I…
xSpace, 18 January 2010In Phillip Newell's book, Recording Studio Design, the Author makes mention of this studio. It wasn't specifically a flattering comment, but it was made in passing, so…
AVare, 19 January 2010The section you quoted was a section title. The picture beside the section is captioned as being typical construction. Looking at what is in the picture, that specific…
cadesignr, 19 January 2010Hello xspace. This is exactly why I posted my questions, as I too have bowed on the alter of his High Acoustical Majesty. I was NOT questioning Mr. Desart in any way,…
AVare, 19 January 2010Cadesignr: Acoustics, in studios is a very frustrating thing to fully comprehend because so little is intuitive, significant factors change with un-obvious causes and…
cadesignr, 24 January 2010Hello John, I forgot to thank you for your reply. However, read on. If I'm not mistaken, your "2 leaf system" statement above may be in for a bit of review. Frankly,…
AVare, 24 January 2010Thanks for the excellent post just above this one. Acoustically speaking, your definition of leaf as a single mass is correct. The strange use of double triple and other…
xSpace, 25 January 2010"This is why I labeld the pictures on my first post....a SIX LEAF system. But apparently, this is NOT the case, as here, the BBS author calls ALL the examples in fig.…
cadesignr, 25 January 2010With all due respect John, I don't understand why the cynical tone from xspace and you. : One would think this community at large would welcome news that the use of…
Soundman2020, 25 January 2010I could tell you why, but you probably wouldn't want to hear it... Besides, I didn't think John's remark was "scoffing" or "mocking" at all! On the contrary, it was…
xSpace, 27 January 2010A leaf is not mass. If you consider the leaf the framing then you may get a better picture. When the author says, "double sided" this may well be the confusion. A double…
Soundman2020, 27 January 2010I'm with you for sure, André, and I understand perfectly (OK, make that "reasonably well") what you are saying about "leaf" being a terminology issue here, not an…
cadesignr, 29 January 2010Hi guys. Sorry it took a while to get back. For some reason the bbs isn't emailing me when there is a reply to a thread I'm watching. Anyway.... Ok, but just for…
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Soundman2020, 30 January 2010No, it's your only problem... Well, you might try reading Andrés response again, since he siad it quite clearly, I think: The BBC used "leaf" in that paper in a…
cadesignr, 30 January 2010Stu buddy. I tried to be cordial and civil. I even apologized for taking you and others wrong. That was a mistake on my part. You just proved I was dead on, at least in…
Soundman2020, 21 October 2010I would really like to see such a case! Can you show us one? I mean, show us a scenario where a multileaf assembly gives better performance across the entire spectrum…
Soundman2020, 22 October 2010:shock: Why would you want to isolate only half of the spectrum? While that might be an interesting mental experiment, I cannot, for the life of me, conceive of any…
Soundman2020, 13 January 2013Well, that's not strictly correct either: Unless your leaf is sufficiently massive, or at a sufficiently large distance, yes you could end up decreasing isolation. Since…
Soundman2020, 13 January 2013Yes it does. It must, since it changes the system from being MSM to being MSMSM. Most people don't realize that walls are tuned systems, and adding anything to them…
Soundman2020, 13 January 2013Actually, it has everything to do with what we are talking about. Take a closer look... There is an area where the resonant frequency for the 3-leaf system is much…
Soundman2020, 13 January 2013Exactly. And that is precisely the point I've been trying to make. And exactly what happens in real-world situations where third-leaves are added without understanding…