sprig productions studio build.

I personally like the idea of a neutral space but am not convinced that a dead space is the same thing, having been in both

I agree X, though the room seems to small for a natural space, dead seems better I would think.

All the drawings in the world will not prepare your head for what your room is going to sound like when construction is complete and in the final analysis, tests and your ears will be the deciding factor.

Again I agree X though details are scarce.

So it is putting the horse before the cart to anticipate what kinds of treatments will be needed, if this was even asked

X I was worried about Sprig putting in another tiled wall, this would be possibly useful as a timed chamber though again the space is small and getting those calculations, well sprig seems to be going as fast as he can.

You mentioned up topic about doing an inside out wall or a simple massed up wall in the rear, either of which would be good for your place.

X, again I thought the inside out Tiled wall (Literally or not) could be an irreversible mistake, So Mass yes, as often people are not 100% clear and if Sprig can achieve that and a dead space with serious trapping I thought this the best option! No? I just didn't think he would get a Natural Space Sound with the size! So dead was the way to go!

Given the space restraints you have the massing up seems like the better option (it is difficult to get a good read on a room/wall sometimes).

I agree X 100%..... Ok so I could not resist the tiled Lexicon room joke, so Mass & Trapping as the Trapping can add to taste or am I wrong here? There is scarce info X so I thought these obvious, maybe the Tiled room joke was a tad much.

Hopefully this is something helpful to you,

And possibly myself X Cheers ADDA

Hey Donal I don't know if these drawings are viable for Sprig, though I knocked them up just to show you where I would be going, the tiled wall could be of advantage or not, that is for you to decide, though X-Space is correct as are you, in that Mass is more, though if you could use both spaces and either Mass on the tile wall then trap the wall in an almost removable way you might get something - So as I was playing around with Ideas here are 2 new Jpegs of what I might do if possible. Just a thought - what are the total dimensions & any new Pics of where your up to? Best ADDA.

Donal here is version 2, though as I don't think you want to bring down this wall, and open up the tiles, it might be redundant, though an Idea is an Idea as they say (or....... as I say.... LOL !), as the Tiled wall might open up to either take mass on both sides or use the tiled wall for reflective scenarios, though I would think the room to small, maybe not for re-amping & such, it might very well rip it along..... see what you think! Cheers, ADDA.

Hi folks, First up thanks a lot to all folks chiming in here, Xspace also thanks a million, cause i really appreciate your time here. Ok some more info, Firstly the skp model of the room is almost perfectly to scale measurement wise. If one was to look at the symmetry jpeg above (and just below this post ) the tiled wall to the left of the axis at the rear of the room is part of an original shower in the original ensuite bathroom. This timber partition stud wall has 2x4 timber stud frame, 10ml gyp board tiled on the inside and 10ml gypboard with a coat of plaster on the outside. This wall cannot be removed or damaged in any way at all, this is a real problem when you begin to think about symmetry of the room so i needed to come up with a design to bring symmetry into the room. I realise the lexicon reverb vox booth is a bit far fetched for a small studio but the tiles and wall are here to stay so i gotta work around em somehow.. The partition wall to the right of the axis in symmetry jpeg is just a plan. It has not been built (see pic below for how it looks now) I am planning on building this "wall" directly opposite the one already in place on the left axis of the room In an inside out wall fashion. then i plan on making the whole thing into a huge bass trap. My question on whether to tile the inside of this inside out wall was based purely on symmetry rather than accoustics. As i understand it my aim with symmetry is to make the two sides of the room as similar in shape and design as possible so i was wondering if i should tile the inside of the new inside out wall to make it as similar in character and sound as the original wall already in place. Guys I really am trying to come up with a somewhat workable design here and dont feel that i am going to fast, I have been reading the site here ( and other sites) for months on end before i ever even posted on the design forum and then again for months on end before starting the build. (never in my thirty years have i put so much time and study into one thing for the simple reason if I f$%k it up i wont get another go at it. As it stands all we have done to the rooms so far is installed a new floor in doing which i followed, as much as my budget allowed, the advice given me on the forum cheers df

Adda you mentioned above that the details were scarce here, If you let me know any details you need at all and i will gladly post em for you. thanks for your time. df

Re: Sprig Ok Donal, I can see where you are going now, sizes would help so I will have another crack as I can see what you are trying to achieve (Hey I'm stuck with the meanest flu as it is, so with Laptop will play!) It Would be good if we could save that shower even as a Re-Amp booth or Chamber, though I have no idea of what is sounds like now - then after the build, if it will actually be of use. I don't think Curtains will be enough to tame for you though you might get a short Lexicon Tiled room Reverb after all with some imagination & ingenuity. Sticking a decent speaker in there & tuning it could give you a nice short reverb if you build it out w/ mass then with a "Hatch" to get in/out change things around (Like Dampen, Move mike axis, move speaker, trap a wall etc it's not impossible!). I have a bathroom Shower/Loo right at the back of the hall of my control room I use all the time. You say you can't get rid of it, maybe we can twist it to your advantage, there certainly are ways to make that shower dead without destroying the tiles, and leaving all clean pristine and intact. So dimensions please: 1st: May I have the complete dimensions In meters or feet from front Point of control room to proposed back wall. 2nd May I have the proposed area of the booth Including tiled shower blocked off & then open in Area Sq/M or Sq/Ft will be fine. 3rd May I have the width of the back wall proposed with the door to booth. Pretty much all dimensions that are relevant including height. Donal - Can you take an actual Photo's from the front & back length of the room as it is naked in a larger format (almost in panorama size), a tripod may help in this; then we should get a better idea of what where playing with front to back as it is. I understanding your concept and realising this is a bit of a challenge, and it seems like finding the correct use of the space to your best advantage, actually quite an interesting scenario, though booths in control rooms don't have to be totally equal on symmetry (Yes I understand the Symmetrical back wall) though it is a good idea & general rule of thumb; (Laws do get broken) and all is variable, so dependant on the actual size we could negate this. Control room Acoustics depend on many factors so yes mass & sizes do make a difference, though when you have little choice often it may not make "That" much of a difference unless critical in listening, certainly the mass issue needs to be addressed as is proposed now in your files. As this is residential you are going to have to beef things up re: Door frames, Back wall, window et all. Even though there are Acoustic design methods that are recommended to be hard & fast rules, quite often smaller rooms must break these rules for sheer functionality, this may not be your case, it may well be re: the critical use of the room. I'm just starting to wonder if a wall system based on a BBC type Air Lock design, built with mass and 703/705 in-between may save you a whole heap of time, hassle, negate the door issue, it might be quicker and give you the desired symmetry from reflections at the back of your mix centre axis. As with this Skp. from you shows the Shower/ booth alone at the back of the room. Expanding in Pictures on this (Not close up's) will help. That very well could be an easier and quicker alternative, though still solid in performance. Just what are the critical mix needs Donal, what type of recording & mixes you do need to translate. Are we talking TV, Radio, Film, Voice, or just Bands and General music. As a production room I see no seating save you so I imagine your recording Vox, guitar, Bass in booth etc, and then mixing it off. Is this the case? Best ADDA

Hi Adda, So the measurements look like this. From the point of the cr to the point at rear of vox booth is 6.9m. From the point of vox booth to the inside of vox booth door frame is 1.9m. from cr point to edge outside edge of vox booth (shower unit) is 4.62m. from cr point cr corner at left of window 4.9m. from vox booth point to inside corner of shower unit 2.4m. from vox booth point to "shower door" 1.6m. from cr rear wall with window (as is) to corner of vox booth partition i s 860mm also from corner of vox booth partition to vox booth door frame is 860mm the room is 2.4 m high throughout. I will post pics in a few minutes. cheers df

pics

So im gonna go with the plans above. df

AHHHH I F@£$%ING HATE SPAMMERS. Goldie there is only one troll putting posts up on this thread, i am going to request your membership of the forum be removed MODERATOR??? can we get this done

ADDA wrote:

X I was worried about Sprig putting in another tiled wall,

My take on the tile was that it is on the backside of the back wall facing away from the control/listening room, is this correct or no?

Hi xspace, yes your take on the tiled wall is correct. It is on the inside facing away from the cr. If you look at the top pic on this page you can see said tiled wall on the left hand side in the foreground of the pic. hope your well. donal

donal_finn wrote:

yes your take on the tiled wall is correct.

...which is the reason I do not see it as being a problem in the control room side :)

Yup, that makes plenty sense, I guess i will just plough on then with an inside out wall here and lots and lots of bass traping all around it. Sweet DF

Sorry Donal, it was this Sketch up that got me, I thought you were tiled on the outside face wall, looking good man, thanks X for picking up my slack, great call. Still, if the bathroom sounds good, possibly slot a cat flap in for re-amping as there is nothing like real Delay/Reverb. Best measurements seen. Still a touch "Fuzzy" though I think your looking good re: Sprig. Best ADDA (Sorry I have no idea how that happened) Lol.. whoops!

This link goes no where;) ADDAhttp://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/p ... 2&t=13207# Firefox says it doesn't know how to handle the protocol ADDAHTTP because no program is associated with it. Maybe you still need a few more days rest?

true, Adda has a flawed sig in his profile. Tho, it's funny. Ppl prolly keep clicking that link. heheh. no worries.

Lol - Ohhhh Can it get worse, I'm so sorry & I still feel like I've been mashed by a Truck. Apologies, ADDA.

Hi folks. Havent been about much lately, been real busy round our house. Festival time is here and i got pink flags coming out my eyeballs at this stage. The build here is kinda on pause for the next three or four weeks although i do hope to get the doors in in the next week or so. Then i am out at another festival in early August so probably mid to end of August i finish the build. On a more positive note however i recieved notice of an incoming arts grant to finance the build so it will all tie together. Thanks for the help.. :D

congrats on your grant mate :) bloody socialist :thu:

Great news Donal, Congratulations! Cheers, ADDA

Hi foks, Hope all are well, been a while since i was in, just gettin the festival season done with!!! back to work today on the build. Getting the old door frames stripped back for the new "superdoors" will post pics later in the week super doors!! any major do and donts?? peace df

bump??

so we are going to get back to work tomorrow I bought 40mm fire doors (€46 each nice!!) which i plan to use i am going to beef em up a bit with 25mm mdf board on one side (no sheet of lead) I have a really good carpenter at my disposal for the next few days (lil bro) so i am expecting the door frames to be quite well built and tight fitting. see door below going to go with something like the pic above for the frames using a double seal all around. see symmetry2 jpeg below Also looking at building the inside out wall at the rear of the control room. This is going to be 12.5mm plasterboard on the rear side, built of 2x4 timber filled with 100mm deep rockwool "flexi" slabs and covered with fabric floor to ceiling as in image below. /Users/donalfinn/Desktop/studio plans and pics/symmetry2.jpg Any last minute do's and dont's with my kind of superdoor plan?? same for inside out walls.

Hi folks, So we have been hard at work here for the last few days, Got the door of the booth up and the door of the cr also. I followed the basic "superdoor" structure beefing up firedoors with mdf board and fitting trunk rubber seals all around the inside of the frame. I couldnt locate gm type k trunk rubber locally so i used a kind of generic one that was easily available (although very exspensive) it seems to be quite tough and very effecient at reducing sound with a huge difference in the transfer to the doors that were in place before!!! :D Also got the little bit of the cr room floor that was left undone finished, and spent sunday in meditation building a mandala in a field!! sweet 8) Sone pics below for comment!! dont be shy.