Semi-private studio build in detached garage

Hello all! First time post.....here we go!! My wife and I purchased a new home with a five year old detached garage that the current owner built. He really built it right and its the perfect starting point for building my semi-private recording and production facility, though its a little less space than I was hoping for. We get possession in a week so I'll post what I know now and get pictures and fully accurate info once we're in. I have been doing a lot of reading on this site - Wow, there's a lot to go through! I've read Rod's book once through and am working through it again. I'll be hiring a contractor to do a significant portion of the construction (depending on how the budget stretches). He is a guy I know and trust and he actually has some experience with acoustically-minded construction. Build Budget: $20 000 Max!! (Canadian Currency) So what's a semi-private studio, right? The purpose of the facility will probably be at least threefold. PURPOSE OF STUDIO First, I work a lot with a company that develops music for therapy products. I am the audio engineer on their product development team and provide them with a LOT of post-production work (just me and the DAW cozying up for hours on end). Second, I'm growing into the roll of producer (hopefully) and will use this studio as my home base for pre-production, recording, and all the rest. This could include classical instrumentation, African & Latin percussion, and most certainly the usual suspects for pop/rock/jazz instrumentation. And third, I have a business relationship with a professional voice artist - we will record all of her jobs in this studio and there's the possibility of this growing into a significant portion of the studio's use. Additionally, my business also does video transfers which I'd like to keep doing in this space although they may happen out of an office in the house. CURRENT STRUCTURE The interior dimensions are 22' 11" long x 17' 8" wide x 8' 4" tall. It's got 2x4 stud walls (no drywall) with vinyl paneling on the exterior. The walls for the most part are not filled with insulation yet (he has a work bench at the back of the garage with a plastic sheet sectioning off the back 1/3 of the garage. He insulated just this area and uses an electric heater). I'll be taking out that insulation before starting as I'll be beefing up the outer leaf. The ceiling is open rafters, which start at the 8'4" mark are rise up approx. 3 - 4 feet to a peak that slops to the sides (the width of the building). I'd love to vault the ceiling but am worried about the cost - we'll see. Its all on a concrete slab. I don't know anything about what kind of slab it is but I'll be talking to the previous owner in the next few days so hopefully he'll know something about it. It has its own electrical sub-panel that runs from the house main - 100 amp service, I believe. There are two windows at the back of the garage and a standard sized door. There is a double garage door on the front. I want to leave the exterior appearance unchanged, which means taking out the mechanics of the door and sealing it up. I'll also attempt to beef up this outer layer while still keeping it a single leaf. DESIGN REQUIREMENTS AND IDEAS I've always assumed that I would do a dual-purpose room in a space of this size. Mainly because I will want to record drum kits in this room with as full a sound as is possible. I am a drummer :shot: and will likely have my kit set up in the space when I'm not tracking (I've been practicing in a tiny box of a room - its not inspiring!!) I also really want to have an isolated equipment room for all the noisy stuff, while keeping a line of sight to the rack of gear. I was hoping for two iso booths but in this space I may just settle for one (with the possibility of the equipment room occasionally serving as a guitar amp iso booth. And it does need to be reasonably comfortable for 3-5 people to be in at any given time. As far as isolation: The neighbour nearest the garage is only about 10 or 12 feet away, although their garage is the first portion of their house (an attached garage), so it's not like its their bedroom. That said, my goal is to be able to play the drums at 1 am. Our house is approximately 8 feet from the garage, and it IS our bedroom on that side. SKETCHUP FILES ***I couldn't upload my files to the forum server so I've linked to them. My files are approx. 4MB each. Forum only allows 500KB maximum uploads? http://www.onpurposeproductions.ca/opp%20studio-4.3.skp http://www.onpurposeproductions.ca/opp%20studio-4.4.skp http://www.onpurposeproductions.ca/opp%20studio-template.skp The first sketchup file (opp studio-4.3) contains my current layout plan based on what I know for sure. I'll need to post more data once I've got possession of the house. The small booth to the left of the mix position is the equipment room - the electrical panel is also currently located in this position (I'll post more accurate details on that later). In this layout, one of the 2 windows has been removed while the other is exactly where it currently is. All measurements are accurate (I think). The inner walls assume 2x4 studding with 2 layers of 1/2" drywall (4.5 inches). The outer walls assume 2x4 studding with beefing up built into their cavity and filled with insulation (3.5 inches) - though the wall with the garage door on it assumes an extra half inch. The big black blob in the middle represents the dimensions of an Argosy 90-C24-RR with a Control 24. The second sketchup file (opp studio-4.4) is one where I've removed the room-within-a-room idea for the equipment room. I'd appreciate some thoughts here. I'm really concerned about the small amount of space, but I'm also concerned about weakening the isolation of the studio by connecting the inner and outer walls as suggested here. Would this also effectively create a 4 leaf system just in this area since I'd obviously have to drywall the inside of this bit of outer wall. And finally, the third sketchup file is a blank template with the basics of the original structure - in case anyone wants to mess around with different layout options - please feel free! Thanks for taking a look guys! I'm excited to get started! Greg

Hey, Greg, and welcome! It's good to see that some folks actually do read the "You Must Read This Before You Post" stickies! I'm just curious about this part:

my business also does video transfers which I'd like to keep doing in this space

Do you mean "video transfer" as in telecine? Something like an Oxberry or an Ursa with a Da Vinci or Lustre system for color correction? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean by the term? That isn't exactly garage kind of gear, so I'm very curious about that! I'm downloading your SketchUp files now, to take a look at them.

Quick comment here, Greg, and maybe the acoustic experts can comment, but I don't think I'd like to have a drum kit in my control room. I get the impression it would be ringing and resonating all over the place as you play back stuff on the system, and would totally screw up your mixes. Anybody comment on that? Have you thought of trying to turn things around and fit in a separate room for your drums? Also, the rear part of your room does not seem to be symmetrical: the wall behind the equipment room is shorter than the wall behind the booth.

I imagine he means transfering Beta or VHS to DVD. Here's two quick thoughts- In the corner design you could add a vox booth in the small space.

I like the corner option! Makes sense.

+1 to Stuart's suggestion of the corner. Following the knowledgeable, Andre

Smart too! Good job lilith_envy!

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Yeah, just basic transfers going on here - peoples home movies and such. And you're absolutely correct, Stuart - the drums would resonate significantly while mixing through speakers. Something I didn't mention was that the work I do for the audio therapy products company is almost entirely mixed with headphones. This is because the product is specifically designed to be used with headphones. I just assumed I would have to move the drums into the iso booth when mixing through speakers - which would suck of course, but it really seems like building a private studio is all about compromise :( And yeah - I know the room isn't totally symmetrical. I was trying to keep the iso booth on the right as large as I could, while keeping the equipment room on the left short enough that it kept enough room under the window (between the door and the equipment room) to put the couch. I wanted to be able to move the couch over there so I could set up drums in the center of the room while tracking. COMPROMISES!! :x lilith_envy: Thanks a lot for putting those together. I certainly played around a lot with multi-room layouts but haven't yet found something other than the dual purpose room that gives me most of what I wanted. For instance, in your corner design I wouldn't have an equipment room - I could add one but then all of the rooms would be getting smaller and smaller. Also - I like sliding glass doors because they serve the purpose of door and window in one, and its only one point of weakness in your wall that you have to worry about, rather than two (though they would certainly need some curtains or something to dampen the wicked reflections they'd give off on either side of my mix position). Oh, and I also really liked the idea of having daylight coming into my control/edit room.

You know...something I haven't really considered was having a small iso booth (just vocals and amp isolation) right at the front entrance. I haven't really considered an air lock because being a private studio it didn't seem vital enough to justify the space it would use up. Hmmm....I'm going to mess around with some ideas and will post back. In the mean time - any thoughts about the integrity of my isolation with the removal of the room-within-a-room idea of my equipment room in 'opp studio-4.4.skp'?

... any thoughts about the integrity of my isolation with the removal of the room-within-a-room idea of my equipment room in 'opp studio-4.4.skp'?

Well, the way you have it right now on that model, the inner leaf is coupled to the outer leaf! Not good. That won't give you much isolation at all. How noisy is your equipment that's going to go in the equipment room? Have you measured the noise level, to figure out how much isolation you need? I think I´d start there, before deciding on plans. You might find that a rack with glass doors and good side panels is enough, and that you don't actually need a room. Until you measure, you'll never know.

Also - I like sliding glass doors because they serve the purpose of door and window in one,

BTW, you could still use sliding glass doors on Lilith's design: She put windows in there just as an example, but there's enough room for sliding doors too. Plus, if you don't mind walking through the vocal booth to get to the CR, then you could use the space on the left side of the CR for your equipment room (the area where the door from the LR into the CR is). . . Her design makes excellent use of space, and is also great acoustically. You might want to consider it again. Lilith, could you post your SKP file for that corner layout? I have a couple of ideas. . .

Soundman2020 wrote:

Well, the way you have it right now on that model, the inner leaf is coupled to the outer leaf! Not good. That won't give you much isolation at all.

Yeah - I figured as much. Not the kind of corner I want to cut for a little more sq. ft.

Soundman2020 wrote:

How noisy is your equipment that's going to go in the equipment room?

I've got about 16 external storage drives, most of which have awful sounding fans in them. I probably could look into updating my storage system but I'd hate to just throw away all that storage.

Soundman2020 wrote:

you could still use sliding glass doors on Lilith's design........Her design makes excellent use of space, and is also great acoustically. You might want to consider it again.

Oh yeah, I'm definitely still considering it.

I'm attaching a pic of an adaptation of Lilith's design that I've put together. Thanks again for that layout idea Lilith! I certainly like the idea of this layout but do have concerns; 1. The control room will get pretty snug with 4 or 5 people in it (me and a band). I've got a loveseat (does that translate properly to other areas of the world?) set up in there now. I'd probably try to look for the smallest sectional couch I could find to fit right into the corner with bass traps just in the upper corner. 2. Materials for this design will definitely be more expensive than the dual room design. I know my budget isn't too low but I'm sure I'll burn through it pretty quickly using a contractor - especially after the cost of an HVAC system. I'm going to play around with Lilith's other layout idea tonight and see what comes out of that. Back to the dual-room idea. It's clear to me now that it should be as symmetrical as humanly possible. I'm also going to work further on that design. Any further thoughts regarding it would be much appreciated as well. Thanks All!

It's looking good! I like the layout, (but your inner leaf walls need some work... :) )

1. The control room will get pretty snug with 4 or 5 people in it (me and a band). I've got a loveseat (does that translate properly to other areas of the world?) set up in there now. I'd probably try to look for the smallest sectional couch I could find to fit right into the corner with bass traps just in the upper corner.

Maybe one of those couches that is designed to fit in a corner would work? Or maybe individual chairs of some sort?

2. Materials for this design will definitely be more expensive than the dual room design.

I'm not sure why you think that. The most expensive materials will be the sliding glass doors, I think, followed by the window. If you can't afford a window initially, then maybe a video link word work in the mean time, until such time as you can afford it? Apart from that, I don't see much else that would increase the price. I didn't measure it, but total wall area looks to be about the same.

It's clear to me now that it should be as symmetrical as humanly possible.

Absolutely! Even if you are mixing for headphones, I reckon you'll still do a lot of listening on the main speakers, and for that symmetry is very important. One question about the desk: Do you really need such a large desk? Maybe you could find a way to shrink the desk a bit. Perhaps move some stuff to racks under the desk, or even into the "machine room"? Just an idea, to gain back some space in the CR. You might also be able to shrink the vocal booth a bit, or even move the front wall out into the LR a bit. It all depends on how much room you really need in the LR.

I've come up with a new layout option that I'm quite excited about. I'm amazed at the usable space I seem to be getting with this one. I've attached a pic of it and a link to the skp file here; http://www.onpurposeproductions.ca/opp_studio_6.skp The good points of this layout are; 1. large live room (large enough to potentially rent out as a practice space during down times - if I lock the entrance to the CR) 2. Very comfortable for 4 or 5 people to be in either the CR or LR at the same time. 3. Allows equipment room & iso booth with line of sight 4. Allows me to keep both window locations from the current structure (if budget allows) 5. Allows for a small computer/internet workstation (to the right of the main mixer/desk). The down side is; 1. Very small vocal booth. However, I figure if the iso booth proves to be too small for a comfortable vocal booth then I could simply use it as an amp iso and build movable baffles that I could arrange in the LR to create a space suitable for recording vocals. Or, since I'm aiming to put any and all equipment that gives off fan noise in the equipment room, recording right in the CR is not completely out of the question. Any thoughts?

Well, it's good use of space, and your CR is symmetrical, but it gets narrower behind the mix position, whereas the recommendations that I've seen are for it to get wider. For the same reason, it looks like you will be getting serious "crossed over" reflections from your speakers back towards the mix position, off those rear angled walls (from the glass, particularly). I think your stereo imaging would be pretty bad like that. You also have no space for bass trapping in your rear corners. And your first reflection points are way off to the side, in that kind of "cavity". I'm not sure what effect that would have, but my guess is that it would not be helpful! What about if you flip the two "booths" around so that they are at the front of the room, and extend them all the way to the back, at an angle? That would solve all three problems, although it does mean that you would probably have to walk through one of the booths to get to the LR (unless you make your front window into a sliding glass door!).

By the way, I'm not sure how you are building your walls in SketchUp, but your technique makes it very difficult to move pieces around easily! They are all individual lines and surfaces, instead of being components and groups, there is not logical relationship between the parts. For example, clicking in the top of the wall around the booth selects the entire top of the wall that runs around the entire building! It should select just that wall. Etc. Maybe you could work on that?

Something like this (rough idea). http://www.digistar.cl/images/opp_studio_6-c.skp

My Room is very similar to your's, so have a look at my design: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11373&start=45 I think you can modify it to yous specs very easy :wink: cheers Mika

My bubble...........burst. :cry:

Soundman2020 wrote:

your CR is symmetrical, but it gets narrower behind the mix position, whereas the recommendations that I've seen are for it to get wider.

I think I've been thinking too much about practical use of space. That certainly is a design principle that I was aware of - I need to put my acoustics thinking hat back on!! :? :roll:

Soundman2020 wrote:

For the same reason, it looks like you will be getting serious "crossed over" reflections from your speakers back towards the mix position, off those rear angled walls (from the glass, particularly). I think your stereo imaging would be pretty bad like that.

I had planned to incorporate some heavy curtain to cover the sliding glass doors during mixing.

Soundman2020 wrote:

You also have no space for bass trapping in your rear corners. And your first reflection points are way off to the side, in that kind of "cavity". I'm not sure what effect that would have, but my guess is that it would not be helpful!

I think there was still some room above the couch in the corners for some bass treatment - limited space, for sure, but some. And for a bit of diffusion probably as well.

Anyone have any recommendations of some good reading material for acoustics with regards to control room and/or live room design? Online material would be preferable since I need to make some decisions pretty quickly on my layout. Stuart - I've worked with your suggestion of turning things around in the CR and come up with the two attached layouts. The first layout (opp_studio_6.2) has me turned around facing away from the LR - not something that I really want to do. opp_studio_6.3 has me facing the right direction but has its own drawbacks. Thanks again for the continued thoughts - much appreciated!!!

mika wrote:

My Room is very similar to your's, so have a look at my design: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11373&start=45 I think you can modify it to yous specs very easy :wink: cheers Mika

Hi Mika - thanks! I actually had read through your design thread. It certainly is good to see other design ideas that people have come up with in a comparable space.

My bubble...........burst.

I know how you feel! Welcome to the club... :) If I had a dollar for each time my "bubble got burst" here (thinking I had the perfect solution that nobody else every thought of), I'd have paid for the entire studio several times over by now! Oh well, I guess that's why we are here: to watch each other's backs and point out things the others might have missed. But look on the bright side: If I hadn't burst your bubble, and you would have actually built that design, you would have been in for a very much bigger real-life "bubble burst" when you turned on the speakers, than just the little "burst-let" from SketchUp!

Stuart - I've worked with your suggestion of turning things around in the CR and come up with the two attached layouts. The first layout (opp_studio_6.2) has me turned around facing away from the LR - not something that I really want to do.

Yeah, not a good idea to be facing backwards. I'd avoid that if you can.

I think there was still some room above the couch in the corners for some bass treatment - limited space, for sure, but some. And for a bit of diffusion probably as well.

I hate to tell you this, but here comes another "burst bubble": You do NOT want diffusion in such a small space. I can say this with authority, because I just learned it from some of the "authorities" here last week, following another thread. Basically, diffusion on your back wall is only useful in much larger studios (I forget the exact dimension, but 6 meters from mix position to rear wall rings a bell). If you put it in a small studio (like yours and mine), then it will tend to smear your image at certain frequency ranges. Not good. So you can dump the idea of having a cool quadratic residue diffuser on the back wall. . . . You can search for that thread and find all the details, if you are interested. - Stuart -

Another option...} Yeah, I know. Ugly. Poor sight lines. etc. But it does buy you a bigger vocal booth, and leave you some space for equipment and storage in the weird angle at the back. But Ugly!!!! Oh well... SKP file here: http://www.digistar.cl/images/opp_studio_6-d.skp (Did I mention that it is an ugly layout?)

Soundman2020 wrote:

(Did I mention that it is an ugly layout?)

It certainly does look ugly, but my earlier layout may well have sounded far uglier. :) I think I'm starting to warm up to the opp_studio_6.3 layout. I'm getting some respected input on the designs tonight and will post back soon.