2 Bedroom Studio. Sound Isolation input needed

Hi All, After a recent purchase I now have 2 extra bedrooms located in the basement of my house which I have begun changing into a studio (Control Room, and Performance Room). Right away I realized there was practically no isolation between the rooms and the rest of the house. You can easily talk through the floors... My plan is to isolate the performance room in the following manner. This will affect all walls and the ceiling. Stud Foam Tape along the stud 5/8" Sheet Rock Insulation board (just the 1/4" stuff) 5/8" Sheet Rock Mud/Tape/Paint Will this provide adequate sound proofing? I basically want to record drums without worrying about the neighbors. The rooms are of the variety where they are half underground and half above ground. I don't plan on putting sheet rock over the area where I know there are blocks and eventually earth. Feedback is greatly appreciated? Do I need to do more? Is some of this overkill? Will the insulation board do anything? I am thinking of using it as an alternative to Green Glue.

Spevinator wrote:

Hi All,

Hai Spenvinator!

After a recent purchase I now have 2 extra bedrooms located in the basement of my house which I have begun changing into a studio (Control Room, and Performance Room). Right away I realized there was practically no isolation between the rooms and the rest of the house. You can easily talk through the floors... My plan is to isolate the performance room in the following manner. This will affect all walls and the ceiling.

What floor is the room on and are there other connected rooms etc.. How 'bout a floor plan of ye space?

Stud Foam Tape along the stud 5/8" Sheet Rock Insulation board (just the 1/4" stuff) 5/8" Sheet Rock Mud/Tape/Paint

How many studs do you need, does a top-model work as well for ya ;) ? (that was a joke, a poor one)

Will this provide adequate sound proofing? I basically want to record drums without worrying about the neighbors. The rooms are of the variety where they are half underground and half above ground. I don't plan on putting sheet rock over the area where I know there are blocks and eventually earth.

So itsa basement? No, it will prolly not do.

Feedback is greatly appreciated? Do I need to do more? Is some of this overkill? Will the insulation board do anything? I am thinking of using it as an alternative to Green Glue.

Insulation Board is a no-no. Green Glue is a yes-yes. If you spend some time on this board you'll get a better understanding of soundproofing and acoustics. So, get reading. If you're separating rooms: GB/GG/GB/stud+wool, air, stud+wool/GB/GG/GB. If itsa extra wall: GB/GG/GB/STud+wool. But, first we need details of what's already there and what your plans are exactly. AND, don't forget, do your homework (read this forum, really good info crammed in here!!) good luck!

The room is 12'X12' with 1 closet. I am essentially removing the closet so that the room is a little bigger and not perfectly square. The floor is currently carpet. Beneath that there is obviously some padding and then likely concrete(?) considering this is the basement. The only thing I am trying to accomplish here is isolation from the rest of the house and the neighbors. There are some advantages to the room such as no windows. It sounds like the insulation board is worthless?

You can easily talk through the floors...

And this two way communications area will have to be addressed as well :) If you've started thinking in 2 leaf isolation terms then look up above your head..and think of that in the same way, only different. You may be able to install mass in between the joist cavities. I'm bettin' that you have existing sheetrock installed overhead already. If that is the case. maybe an inspection of what this floor/ceiling is made of would be in order. That two-way will not go away if it is not tended to.

There was actually a floated ceiling which we promptly tore down. As it stands now I am looking at the floor joists. The plan is to pack insulation in-between the joists then do a layer of 5/8" rock, insulation board, and another layer of 5/8" rock.

Spevinator wrote:

There was actually a floated ceiling which we promptly tore down. As it stands now I am looking at the floor joists. The plan is to pack insulation in-between the joists then do a layer of 5/8" rock, insulation board, and another layer of 5/8" rock.

You didn't specify the option of buffering the connection between the floor joists and the drywall. This is a very important part of the construction detail as you cut direct vibration away from your floor joists. Hat or Furring Channels with Isolation clips: That's just one option though. There are several from totally decoupling it and other ways of buffering the connection like that.

Spevinator wrote:

The plan is to pack insulation in-between the joists then do a layer of 5/8" rock, insulation board, and another layer of 5/8" rock.

Poor plan. If you intend to install sheetrock do not put insulation board inbetween them. Also, if you search around for beefed up ceiling, you will locate ways to add mass to the underside of your existing flooring. If you move too fast on this you will miss a golden opportunity to really help your situation. If you insist on listening to that crazy carpenter that you know, or whoever is feeding you these options, good luck. What Cram mentioned would help your situation much, as well. I think the mantra, at times, around here is "mass-air-mass decouple mass-air-mass decouple..."

xSpace wrote:

I think the mantra, at times, around here is "mass-air-mass decouple mass-air-mass decouple..."

BAD MANTRA........... BAD KARMA 4 leaf system this would build - yes it would...... mantra is Mass - frame decoupled from existing - existing frame - Mass with the air spring being the entire cavity from the inner most mass (on the new wall) and the outer most mass (on the existing wall) Sincerely, Rod

Poor grammer on my part. I think the mantra, at times, around here is "mass-air-mass decouple(insert comma) mass-air-mass decouple..."

xSpace wrote:

Poor grammer on my part. I think the mantra, at times, around here is "mass-air-mass decouple(insert comma) mass-air-mass decouple..."

xSpace, you still have it wrong - - just look at hat you keep writing - it's 4 layers of mass......... y6ou need to loose those 2 inner layers....... correct is simply "mass air mass" - "with decoupled frames". What you are saying is not - nor has it ever been - the mantra around here........ Sincerely, Rod

or is X just "repeating" the mantra? like "rod, rod, rod, rod, rod...." :P :?: How many rods does it take to get your karma straightened? :wink:

Rod is right. A mantra is historically, one syallable, so me having this sentence, even if I was repeating, is in effect incorrect.

Tonight I will start putting the first layer of 5/8" sheet rock up on the ceiling. One topic that keeps coming up is what to put between the ceiling joists. Is it worth the time and money to put insulation up there? I can't imagine it doing much for sound proofing. I do plan on putting some foam tape on each joist prior to putting up the first layer of rock. The main goal here is to keep drums from bothering the neighbors. The wall facing the neighbors yard will actually have 2 layers of 5/8" rock and then the "normal" wall which existed prior to me moving in.

Spevinator wrote:

Tonight I will start putting the first layer of 5/8" sheet rock up on the ceiling. One topic that keeps coming up is what to put between the ceiling joists. Is it worth the time and money to put insulation up there? I can't imagine it doing much for sound proofing. I do plan on putting some foam tape on each joist prior to putting up the first layer of rock. The main goal here is to keep drums from bothering the neighbors. The wall facing the neighbors yard will actually have 2 layers of 5/8" rock and then the "normal" wall which existed prior to me moving in.

STOP! Detail exactly what you are thinking of doing, ask more questions, and wait a couple of days for people to get a chance to read and respond. There is no question that mineral type insulation IS required for best sound isolation. What is thing about foam tape? If you do not remove the inside layer of the current wall, the sound insulation WILL BE WORSE at low frequencies. Those the frequencies that are the hardest to control. Andre

AVare wrote:

Spevinator wrote:

There is no question that mineral type insulation IS required for best sound isolation.

Andre, I don't differ from you often - but here I have to. If you check through the IRC publications (for example) you'll find that the best bang for the buck is standard fiberglass insulation - and that it actuall outpreforms mineral wool in some low frequencies.

If you do not remove the inside layer of the current wall, the sound insulation WILL BE WORSE at low frequencies. Those the frequencies that are the hardest to control.

This is right on the money - You don't sound as if you are anywhere near understanding enough about this to be ready to begin constructing anything yet........ it's going to be a shame for you to throw away a whole bunch of money without coming anywhere near the results you want to acheive........ and believe me - you have a challenge on your hands shutting out the drums from the neighbors is you do everything perfectly - never mind doing it wrong. sincerely, Rod

Am I accurately understanding your concerns here (or at least one of them)? How else can I better sound proof this wall besides adding mass? Would a layer of Green Glue between the old wall and the new sheetrock help out?

rod gervais wrote:

AVare wrote:

There is no question that mineral type insulation IS required for best sound isolation.

Andre, I don't differ from you often - but here I have to.

We are not disagreeing. I had just finished reading/replying to several posts from Europe and my mind was in that mode. When I wrote "mineral wool" I meant it in the continental sense of any mineral based insulation, including silicon AKA glass. Thanks for catching it so that people here do not get confused. As clear as glass, Andre

Hey Spev, I located a doc. that may be of interest to you. Controlling the Transmission of Airborne Sound through Floors http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/ctus/25_e.html It might be worth a few minutes to read the entire article. Never hurts to have a fresh perspective.

Xspace- Thank you very much for the article recommendation. For my budget I really can't afford all of the clips necessary to go the route the article recommends. On the other hand I don't need isolation perfection. It was interesting to read how applying the sheetrock directly to the joists makes the filling between the joists basically worthless. I am hoping to make a slight improvement by putting foam tape over the joists before screwing in the first layer of sheetrock. After all the research I have decided to use some Quiet Solution glue in-between the layers of sheetrock.

Like this? http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... t=basement

Spevinator wrote:

After all the research I have decided to use some Quiet Solution glue in-between the layers of sheetrock.

Spev, funny choice seeing as you've done reasearch. Green glue provides all of the test data backing up their product......... when you check all of the independent lab test reports for Quiet Solutions there is not one single test performed for Quiet Glue.......... I wouldn't buy anything from a company that didn't post thier test results - and I assume they tested seeing the claims they made........... Hmmmm.............. Rod

Spevinator wrote:

It was interesting to read how applying the sheetrock directly to the joists makes the filling between the joists basically worthless.

I didn't get that. It read "no significant increase." Big difference.

So far construction on the studio is going well. The control room is basically done. I just need to tape/mud, paint, and install some track lighting. The performance room is the bigger task and so far I have 1 layer of sheet rock on each wall. In some cases I left the original 1/2" and will be adding another layer of 5/8" once I get my Quiet Glue. The outer walls (which border the house) now have 1 layer of 1/2" and one layer of 5/8". The ceiling also has 1 layer of 5/8". I'll be getting glue on Thursday at which point the second layer will go up on all surfaces. I think I'll have a total of 3 different wall combinations 5/8" / 5/8" 1/2" / 5/8" 1/2" / 5/8" / 5/8" In each case Quiet glue will be added between the wall and the last layer of sheet rock. I do have 1 outlet questions which I couldn't find an answer to using the search function. On the wall between the control room and the performance room there is 1 outlet (on the performance room side). I do not need this outlet as there are tons of other options on the other walls. What is the best way to remove the outlet (prior to putting up my next layer of rock)? Can I disassemble it and use some wire nuts or would I best served to simply remove the wiring altogether?

Why are you using Quiet Glue? Did you read Rod's post? Andre

I did read Rod's post but it was after I had the glue ordered. I know there is a lot of controversy over the performance of these products and it looks like a lot of it is spurred on by the variety of data on the internet. I got a good deal on the Quiet Glue furthering the my attempt at getting the best value for the dollar. Any input on the outlet?