Basement Studio

I am still in the planning stage. Objective: Build a live room for tracking drums and possible jam sessions. I don't have a sound level meter yet, but to get an idea, most drummers being tracked will be heavy metal drummers. Size: approximately 9'x12'(height see below) Location: Residential neighborhood in Long Island, NY. Basement of a ranch house. Lot size is approximately 50'x100' as well as all other nearby neighbors. The spot I chose in the basement seems to be furthest from all neighboring houses. House is a 1950s era ranch. Wood frame with insulated aluminum siding Main Floor Interior walls and ceiling are all plaster Foundation is cement fill with plugs. It measures 10" thick in a crawl space opening. Floor above basement consists of the following: maple floor 3/4" planks(not sure what these are made of) placed at 45 degree angle across the joists 2x8 joists span 11ft concrete wall->steel beam they are placed 16" oc with only one solid bridging between all the joists. There is only 85" between the floor and the ceiling joists. So like everyone else I want maximum height along with maximum isolation. I was considering the following: A) Dow 1/2" Blue Board, sheetrock, greenglue, sheetrock between the joists. Fiberglass. RC channel or RISC clip sheetrock, greenglue, sheetrock B) Same as A but with 3 layers of sheetrock between the joists. C) Build it just like page 77 in Rod's book. D) Build 6" wide trusses that will fit between the cross bracing of the ceiling joists to achieve maximum ceiling height and maximum isolation. Here are my questions: 1) A and B seem easier to build but will my ceiling be able to support all the extra weight? 2) C I loose ceiling height. 85" - 3 5/8" - 5/8" - 5/8" - 5/8" = 80 1/2" Has anyone built a ceiling this low? 3) D I'm having trouble finding specs on wooden trusses 6" wide made out of 2x4, probably because no one uses them because they are too small to support anything? Will trusses like this placed over 9' span, 16" oc be able to hold 2-3 layers of sheetrock.

I've answered part of my question. I am going to either build it like either C or D from my previous post. Here are some pictures of what I have done so far. Take a look and let me know what I'm doing wrong.

The pix show the steps you took to add extra mass too the ceiling, correct? - added Gb keeping space on the boundaries. check - addes BR in the gaps and used kit to seal. check - added trims. check seems like a good job.

Yes and thanks so much for commenting. That is the outer mass I'm working on. Currently it is dow blue board, 5/8 type X moisture resistant sheetrock, greenglue and sheetrock again. All layers were cut 1/4" shy to allow for the 3/8" backer rod and a bead of caulk went over all edges on every layer, then finally jammed up with the 1x3's. The blocks of wood between the joists were removed and put back temporarily. They will not stay there when its done. The last picture shows joist truss bars I found in Lowes. Does anyone know if there is any reason why I can't use these instead of making ones made out of wood?

The blocks of wood between the joists were removed and put back temporarily. They will not stay there when its done.

The bent metal you have currently installed wouldn't stop any kind of movement. If you are taking blocks out, you would be well advised to replace the same blocks. They are there, in the current manner, for a reason. And that reason is to prevent the joists from collapsing. edit: Did my room-in-room fail the "jump test"???

Is there any reason why I shouldn't replace the wood blocks with wooden cross bracing like in the picture below? Is there any reason I shouldn't replace the wooden blocks with bracing that was used in Cram's Basement Jam Room?

No sir, wood X-bracing was common at one time so it does work. Where they are installed is important, usually the center of the joist run/length so I would get them right back as close as possible to the original blocking location. For this type of bracing to be effective your angle cuts should be very specific. No slop or squared ends. Figure out the angle(s) and cut your 1X4 to ensure a solid connection to the joist,

Thanks. That picture was someone else's house which was built like that over 50 years ago. I'm trying to achieve maximum ceiling height. What about the way Cram's Basement Jam Room floor joists are braced? Could I use the same technique on mine?

If possible I would like to rename this whole topic from "Basement Ceiling" to "Basement Studio". I'm almost done with the framing for my tracking room. My problems/decisions currently are the following: 1) I have to wrap the hot water heater pipe that goes along the concrete wall with something. I would like to use this stuff - http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/hvac/ ... g.htm?d=26 but it comes in rolls of 54 " Wide x 30’ Long. Only need to cover about 16' long by 1 1/8" wide pipe. I talked to someone at that company and they said would call me back to let me know if they have partial pieces to sell. Haven't heard back from him. I will have to keep looking. If anyone knows where I can get small pieces please let me know. 2) I was thinking of using Thermafiber or Roxul for insulating for the wall that goes against the concrete. I have about 5 1/2" gap between the front of my 2x4 stud and the concrete. I was thinking of doing the following: drywall | drywall | 4" Thermafiber | 1 1/2" gap | concrete wall My drywall is Moisture Resistant type X. Do I still need a vapor barrier between the Thermafiber and Concrete wall? Was considering these over regular fiberglass insulation because of moisture resistance. I have been living in this house for 8 years with no leaks on this wall but with any basement wall in this area it could get damp during a very humid summer. I have run a dehumidifier in the summer with great results. When I first moved in I was using the dehumidifier that was left behind. Somehow it got turned off the first summer I lived here and a mold problem started to begin. Since this basement wasn't finished it was easy to clean up and my remedy was add another dehumidifier so if one craps out there is always one to take up the slack. Haven't had a problem since. I'm having trouble just getting 4" Thermafiber or 4" Roxul for that matter so if I went with one of these then in order to fill the 1 1/2" air gap I would have to buy either 1" or 2" to fill the gap. Not sure if filling the air gap is that important since the thickness of the concrete is at least 10" or more. All for now....

Can't speak about the insulation type or the gap. However, you're incorrect in the location that you place the vapour barrier. Also, I'm pretty sure you need the vapour barrier. Your vapour barrier should be placed on the warm side of the room. So, from the inside: 1) drywall/drywall 2) vapour barrier 3) insulation 4) gap 5) concrete wall For the explanation, look at Brad Jacob's build or Cram's. Rod Gervais gives a great explanation as to where the vapour barrier should go. Fortunately those guys corrected the issue before they put up the drywall. Andy

You are right. I was reading Cram's Basement Jam room before I posted and noticed he put the vapor barrier against the concrete basement wall. If you read on he corrects it and puts it on the inner room before the sheet rock goes up. So it should be: drywall | drywall | vapor barrier | insulation | concrete wall I changed my topic to "Basement Studio". I will try and read more about the small air gap to see if it is a concern. Otherwise I will consider consider using unfaced fiberglass. I am going to try and look for some more places that sell pipe lag. Thanks for your help.

I think knightfly answered my question about the air gap on this Post subject: Double leaf insulation:

The dreaded HVAC part of the build. YAH! I originally planned on making a sofit in the tracking room but I am now steering away from that idea because I think it will take up too much space because of my low ceiling. So after reading through the forum, round ducts are not very good for long runs and square ducts are better. I am considering rectangle shaped ducts made with duct board. I made a box that is 10" x 12" and walked around my basement in the places I thought would be the best fit. In my case the tracking room joists range from 14" to 17" center. Luckily outside the room there is one bay that will happily fit my box with the 12" side horizontally so I can sneak the box up in between the joists. When I cross under the steel beam in the basement the joists are much closer together about 12" on center, so I have to flip my box the other way(10" horizontally) so I can still sneak the box up there. Now I have to make a turn by the concrete wall and follow the next steel beam to the other side of the basement. On this run the box crosses all the joists so the box is back to the 12" side running horizontal. One more turn and flip and I'm finally in the mechanical room with it. What an adventure. You can wake up now..... My room sizes, people, equipment etc..... see chart and drawing below Control Room vs Track Room Calculations --------------------------------------- Gear -1585 Watts ..............1470 Lighting - 235......................240 Power - 46.7.......................39.4 People -643.76....................1287.56 Total - 2504.46...................3036.96 Conv. - 8.547......................10,365 Sensible - 7.713...................7289 Latent Load - 835.................3076 So here are the questions I'm going to try to answer and if anyone feels like helping then thanks in advance.... What Duct board thickness to use? Do I need duct wrap when using duct board? Calculate my silencers. ( I've got the formula from here....) but I'm not sure what the inside diameter of my ducts are going to be(see above). My silencers should they be between the walls so I don't loose isolation? I would think mounting them on the outside of a double wall would be prone to leakage. Should I hang the silencers from the ceiling or should I mount them to one of the walls? If I use tubing for any of the turns can I use 10" tube for a 12"x10" duct or should I always try to use 12" tubing? I think the answer is 12" but just trying save some ceiling height if possible. Its now a toss up between making the exchange chamber(chiller room) or a split system. I have no ac system in my house currently. If I went with the split system it would only be for the recording studio so no noodling with other vents to other rooms etc..... I know the split system will be more expensive but with all the duct runs I have in my layout maybe it will be more trouble to get the exchange chamber to work properly. If I ducted it for the exchange chamber now, could I convert the duct system to work with a split ac unit without having to redo all the duct work? My goal is NOT to turn on and off the AC every time I have to record something in the tracking room. The last studio we recorded at had this set up in the drum room. The good drum room that studio had was unavailable and we didn't want to wait another 3 months to use it. It was one of the hottest days in the summer the day we recorded the drums and our drummer deadfoot lost over 10lbs. He almost lived up to the first part of his name. You get what you pay for. Right Deadfoot!

I am back to trying to make the ventilation fit inside a soffit that will fit in my LOW ceiling tracking room. I have a different version of John's design since I don't have the space to build it like his. Here is a drawing of the soffit design again:It is showing the interior wall. 2 layers of sheet rock, duct liner over the sheet rock, enclosed with a piece of 2" 703 covered with cloth. In this picture I'm trying to show a silencer connected just before it enters the room. Its outlet is a triangle connected directly to the soffit. The area of the triangle is (Base x Height)/2 = (24" x 12")/2 = 144 sq in. The inlet would be 12 x 12 square = 144 sq in. or 12 x 12 round = 113 sq in.. Not sure if this is how you would calculate different shape inlets and oulets to make sure the outlet is the same or bigger than the inlet. I would guess I would build the silencer like it was going to have a 12 x 12 square inlet and outlet but I'm not sure. Also, in John's picture he covered the outlet of the silencer with cloth. I would like to do this also but I am not sure what kind of cloth? Can it be the same that everyone covers the 703 with?

>>You get what you pay for. Right Deadfoot!<< That's a 10-4 good buddy. I don't want to be praying for air after every tracking run, and dumping out the bucket of sweat under the throne. Seems like the triangle soffit is the ticket, because you get the benefit of a built in bass trap, but what little I've learned about sound proofing and isolation is that what seems like common sense is not necessarily the right way. I haven't seen anyone reply that this is a bad idea, but I haven't seen anyone say it's an acceptable one either. Is the jury out on this one?

Here is a bunch of photo's. We actually jammed in the studio 2x last week. No noise outside the house at all. In the house, the loudest spot is in an above bedroom. The living room is a little quieter and you could watch TV and have a conversation no problem. The best isolation I get is between the tracking and the soon to be control room. Also the noise from the chiller room is very quiet and can hardly be heard at all. The drummer(Deadfoot) said at one point, "Is there a window open in here? I feel a cold breeze coming from somewhere." The doors were closed and the fan and ac were on. I might need to get a bigger ac for summer and/or adjust the flow with some dampers, but for now working good. This thing was a pain in the you know what to build but am happy we can at least jam in here and hopefully try some recording soon. Any questions, comments, critics go ahead have it.

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past my ranger bedtime.... will post more tomorrow....

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