Live Room Dimensions, Materials and Fixes?

[Adze]

As part of a college project, I've been asked to design a studio for the first time, but I'm having trouble with the potential layout of my live room. I'm attaching my proposed floor plan below.

I'm fairly happy with how every other room in the studio is set up so far, but I'm more than willing to go back to the drawing board if anything seems out of place. I know there are a few simple things like how I don't need an air gap between the bathroom and the outer walls, I'll fix what I can at a later time.

I think I may have backed myself into a corner dimension-wise, because I focused so much on getting my control room and iso booth to a decent ratio that I neglected the live room and now it's just a big rectangle This has since been updated - see below. What would be a better layout if I decided to make the room irregularly-shaped. Another reason for perhaps rethinking the layout is that the ratios of the room aren't good either. Should I leave it like this or add in extra walls to make the room irregularly shaped? Either way I'm going to need a butt-load of acoustic treatment once I've puzzled this out. This is set up for full band recording so I need to be able to account for people playing loud.

Also, one constraint for the project is that the live room needs to have a floating floor and I'm not allowed to exceed the bounds of the shell I've been provided, so would that mean there needs to be a few stairs leading from the passageway to the live room?

I apologise if these are simple questions, evidently 8 days worth of lectures beforehand isn't enough training

I greatly appreciate any help!
Adam

EDIT: I've since updated the floor plan so that I could add in a lobby area and a lounge. The live room now has irregularly shaped walls but I'd still appreciate input if I've laid something out wrong or if there's a better way of doing it.

[Soundman2020]

and now it's just a big rectangle

... and why do you think that is a problem? What's wrong with a rectangular live room?

This is the main live room at Abbey Road, arguably one of the best studios on the planet:

abbey-road-JJ_02.jpg

It's basically just a rectangle. And famous for being the studio of choice for the Beatles, among many other big-name bands and artists.

From a thread yesterday, this is the main live room for Studio B at United Recording Studios in LA:

Studio_B_TOP.jpg

That room is billed as one of the best drum tracking rooms in the world. And it is basically a rectangle.


Main tracking room at Blackbird Studio A:

Blacbird-tracking-A-rectangular-ATrks2.jpg

Main live room at East-West studios:

main-live-room-east-west-studios--rectangular.png

Teledex in Berlin, main tracking room:

teledex-berlin-main-tracking-room--rectangular.jpg

On a smaller scale, the main tracking room at Studio Three Productions, in Missouri:

RDMOUS-Studio-3-productions--Main-live-room-completed-7-drums.png

And since I had a hand in designing the treatment for that room, I have some construction photos, in case you are interested:

RDMOUS-Main-live-room-under-construction-2.jpg

(more here: http://studio3productions.com/ and here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =2&t=20471 )


So as you can see, there's nothing at all wrong with having a rectangular shaped room for your tracking room (live room).

What would be a better layout if I decided to make the room irregularly-shaped.

Not necessarily. It would be better to use TREATMENT that is irregular and tuned correctly to deal with specific issues, such as you see in many of John's studios. Splaying sections of your walls wastes a lot of space. Treatment wastes less.

Another reason for perhaps rethinking the layout is that the ratios of the room aren't good either.

It's a tracking room / live room, so ratios are not critical at all. The room can have unbalanced modal response, as long as it is controlled with treatment. That can be part of what give the room its "character" or "vibe", which artist might like, and might attract them back again.

Either way I'm going to need a butt-load of acoustic treatment once I've puzzled this out.

For the control room, absolutely! Because it is small and MUST sound neutral. But not necessarily for the live room. LIve rooms are supposed to be... welll... umm... "live"!!

This is set up for full band recording so I need to be able to account for people playing loud.

"accounting for people playing loud" is part of the isolation of the room, not the treatment. If you play a song at 120 dBC in an anechoic chamber, it will still measure as 120 dBC. and will still be loud, even though the room is absolutely dead! IN other words, you can't reduce the SPL level in the room below what it is, by using treatment. If the band plays at 115 dBC, then that's how loud it will be in the room, regardless of how you treat it. It might sound louder with no treatment at all, but that's due to resonance, reverberation, reflections, etc., not the sound source itself. Your treatment will make the room sound nicer, better, smoother, warmer, brighter, cleaner, tighter, etc., since it must control all of the "resonance, reverberation, reflections, etc.", but it won't reduce the total level below whatever the band is putting out.

Also, one constraint for the project is that the live room needs to have a floating floor

That's a pity, since not many studios have floating floors, because not many need them! Here's why: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

But since that seems to be a non-negotiable parameter, you'll have to live with it.

However, floating floors don't take up an enormous amount of room. Just a few inches. So one step up is all you'd need. However, if the studio is not yet built, it would be better to excavate that part of the building a few inches deeper, to allow for that, so all the floors end up at the same level...

so would that mean there needs to be a few stairs leading from the passageway to the live room?

One step would be more than enough. A floating floor only takes up a few inches, and a "standard" step rises 7-1/2". More than enough for a 4" slab over a 3" air space, with laminated flooring on top, over suitable underlay.

I apologise if these are simple questions, evidently 8 days worth of lectures beforehand isn't enough training

Yup. Eight years would be about right, I reckon...


- Stuart -

[Adze]

Thanks for getting back to me, Stuart. I haven't been using these forums long, but I already look forward to your replies Let me see if I can reply to everything you mentioned.

I thought a rectangular room was a decent design too, but I've had a few lecturers comment that it wasn't the best way to go. Although I wouldn't say any of them were pros at studio design. (This is a sound engineering college so I think their specialties are in other areas). However the person marking this project is definitely experienced, so I think as long as I motivate my reasons properly and draw attention to the treatment, I should be okay.

As for the floating floor, I was told that I wouldn't be able to make any changes to the shell dimensions. I don't know if this includes digging down, but I'll check. That's why I was asking about stairways

So if I've understood you correctly, a rectangular room is fine as long as you have the proper treatment for it. Also, would you say my dimensions for the live room are fine? Not ratios specifically, but I've had people look at my room and say, quote, "Fuck, that's big." I mean clearly it'd be alright if the music suits it, but I don't want the marker to see it as badly managed space. Once again I should be fine if I motivate my reasoning properly.

Thanks again!