Ohio - Basement Studio - Revisited

Greetings to all members of the recording studio forum. It has been a while since I requested assistance with my basement studio. Two rears ago I believe. I did get what I believe to be very good guidance in my initial design, and began a set of floor plans. Unfortunately, my funds were depleted due to other family needs and the studio was put on the back burner. I now have funds again to start this project and am excited to get back to it. Having looked at my initial designs many times over the last two years, I have begun to re-think things a bit. I will start with my initial post. Below is the link to my initial post from two years ago. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ight=kurtz Here is my current environment: I now have approximately $4,000.00 to get things started. I would like to build the Control room and the adjacent Isolation room as Phase 1 of my project. This would allow me to start smaller projects, and give me time to save for Phase II of the Studio. I now have 9 solid core doors, two of which are lead lined. I no longer wish to float the floor on of the Isolation room. I do still want to float or at least raise the floor of the Control Room. My goal is still to start construction as soon as I have a solid set of floor plans, acoustical treatment construction plans, materials list, and sequence of events documented. Since my initial post I have read a few different books on studio building, including Rod’s recent book. However, there is so much information available, and so much to know. It is very intimidating for me. I just hope I can learn enough to do it right……… the first time. First Concerns/Questions: As I mentioned, I have had some time to think about my plans, and realized I could rotate the control room area. There are positive and negative aspects to either orientation. I have stated below the positive and negative aspects as I see them. I am hoping to get some advice from those more experienced as to which is the better approach. Thank you in advance for you assistance. Facing North and South Positive - Yields an air lock - Provides a storage area for mics, cords etc.. - Uses the exact ratio of the diagrams from John Sayers sample set. Thus insuring good room ratio. Negative - The room is not very deep (13ft 8in), limiting space for customers or other equipment - Front window into the large (phase II) recording room can only be 4ft 8in wide. Facing East and West Positive - Provides a deeper control room (15ft 10in) - The window facing the large (phase II) recording room is 6ft wide Negative - The room is 1 foot thinner than the “facing north” option - The room is not the exact same ratio as the John Sayer sample. It is stretched out due to the additional two feet of depth. - No air lock, but can have double doors to the large (phase II) studio What is the best orientation? It seems to me that using the exact same ratio as John’s proven samples would yield a good sounding room, but the extra depth of the “east-west” option provides more room for customers, and maybe space for tracking in the control room. I welcome all of your comments. Any encouragement is also appreciated, as I am very nervous about starting this project. I don’t want mess it up. Thank you. Joe

i like east-west because its a bigger view into the main room.

Glenn Thanks for that input. Any other comments/suggestions out there? Joe

I just realized I have a potential problem with the "east west" orientation option for the control room. I have never considered the issue before because it did not exist with the control room facing north. The problem is with a drain pipe that comes from the garage sink and goes down through the basement, under the basement and out to the septic tank. Since the drain does not go into the house (other than in the basement). Can I cut a hole through the Cap and plate, and use acoustic insulation around the pipe (where it passes through the cap and plate) to keep sound from escapting out of the contol room, or must I back the control room wall farther away from the block wall for clearance? As you can see there is a "clean out" close to the bottom of the pipe that I must maintain access to. The bottom of the clean-out pipe (the horizontal piece) is 4 3/4" off the basement floor. If I raise the floor in the control room with 2x2s, add two layers of OSB, and a half inch wood floor, I would have a 3 3/4" high floor. I would have about one inch of clearance between the bottom of the drain pipe clean-out and the floor. Is this practical do address in this fashion. Any other ideas. I really do not want to move the back walll in if I can help it. I would lose about a foot to clear the whole pipe (including the clean-out). Any suggestions? Should I move this post to the construction section? Thank you.

create a box around the pipe with a small panel on it to allow access. on the bass trap front, leave a panel you can remove to get access to the boxed in pipe.

Glenn Thanks for the response. I think what I will do is build the box you suggested and cover with the 2 layers of drywall, but make accessible from inside the Bass Trap. I don't need access to it on a regular basis. I just want to be able to access it if the need aver arises. I can remove (unscrew) the bass trap front if needed.

I have a question about raising the floor. I had planned on building the control room on a raised floor, purely for cable management. I was not planning on floating the floor. After reading Rod's book on the topic of basement floors, I really do not see the point. My questions, is how high to make it. I was trying to minimize the height due to this being a basement floor with 9ft ceilings, and had settled on using 2 x 2s. I started to draw the framing in Sketchup. After looking at it, I am beginning to think that 2 x 2s might not be tall enough to give me enough room for proper cable management. Has anyone used 2x2s to do this? I am thinking of going to 2x4s. Any thoughts? FYI I plan on adding two layers of 3/4 inch OSB on top of the floor frame and then probably a 1/2inch laminate wood floor.

how about overhead soffits instead of floor for the cabling? or soffits on the side walls to place the cabling?

Glenn I am not sure how that would work. Wouldn't that still require something to run across the floor to get to the console? If it came from the ceiling, it seems to me I would have some visual obstruction (I think), unless I am totally missing the point here. Joe

Glenn I am not sure how that would work. Wouldn't that still require something to run across the floor to get to the console? If it came from the ceiling, it seems to me I would have some visual obstruction (I think), unless I am totally missing the point here. Joe

if the cable run was across the ceiling and down the wall to the nearest point to the desk or racks that would seem to be as effective as raising the floor... esp if you double the duty by housing the AC etc. -- just ideas..

Glenn I see your point. I guess I just want to make everything come up from the floor, so nothing runs across the floor. I think i will keep the raised floor. Just don't know if it will be 2x2 or 2x4. Since the whole driving factor for even considering not raising the floor is the height of the ceiling, I think a better discussion might be "why my ceiling is not high enough when starting out with 9ft". Many people would love to have 9ft ceilings in their basement. I am going to present a seperate post for the ceiling design, as it may be involved. I just want to come up with some new ceiling options in my Sketchup of the control room so that they can be commented on. I may need a day or two to crank these out. Thank you for the help thus far.

OK. I am really hung up at this point. I was planning on using the Expanded Ceiling in the control room, but it does not work. When I slope the front and back of the control room ceiling, I do not have enough head room to exit the door to the Iso room. This can be seen in the second diagram. I tried something different in the third diagram, where the ceiling at the front of the control room is parallel with the floor. I assume this would have to be a purely absorptive section of the ceiling. The other parts of the ceiling would be both absorptive and reflective based on how it treated. The bottom line is that I am not sure I like either one of these approaches. In the beginning it sounded like a great idea. Now I am not so sure. Seems like the sloped ceiling uses up and awful lot of real-estate. I did not realize that 9 ft ceilings would be so limiting. If I had know this when I built the house, I would have gone with a 16 course instead of 14 course basement. Glen, could you give me some guidance in this area? I can provide you with my Sketchup file. I do not know how to get you the file other than email it to you. It is 2mb in size which is over the limit of the site for uploads. I would greatly appreciate your input or others who have run across this issue. Thanks. Joe

you're going to create a false ceiling? if so, then you can have it flatter and adjust the balance between cloth and reflections to suit your needs. if you're making this a solid ceiling you should consider that maybe more room volume is a better approach and use ceiling mounted clouds instead.

Glen I had planned on creating a ceiling that was isolated from the floor above. I am doing this in both the control room and the first Iso room. The large recording room will be done with channel. As you saw, using 2 x6s to support the ceiling and provide the proper angle for deflection, really uses up the real-estate fast. I had not even shown the two layers of Drywall attached. I had thought about having a flat ceiling for the reason you suggested. Just was not sure if it was the right thing to do. If I use a flat ceiling, am I just placing the isolated ceiling as high as it will go, and wrapping around all obstacles as close as possible, then using absorption techniques (i.e. Clouds) to fix the problems caused by the ceiling being parallel with the floor? Is it that simple? If I have an obstacle such as shown below, where the duct work is affecting just the right side of the control room, should I box things in so that the room is symmetrical, or just box in that specific location. I would think the room should be kept symmetrical. Lastly, if I do not have the sloped ceiling, am I going to wish I had done it later? Are there lots of studios built with the flat ceiling then “Cloud treated” afterwards? Glen, I appreciate your responses to my cries for help. Thank you so much for your advice. Once I get this ceiling situation worked out, I will be so much closer to finishing my plans and preparing for construction. Thanks. Joe

in this case, i'd plan on building it flat, box in the ducts with soffits, and use clouds to treat the ceiling. it will be fine, many good studios use that tactic, and in some cases the clouds are big enough that it seems like a ceiling.... use RC-2 or iso clips and HC on the ceiling to isolate it as well as (if structure can support it - check with a structural engineer) beef up the underside of the above floor with drywall layers to further increase isolation through mass.

Glenn Thanks for the response. I feel more comfortable knowing that using the flat ceiling is not uncommon. You mentioned using Resilient Channel for the Control Room ceiling instead of having the Independantly Framed ceiling as I had originally planned. I have two questions about that. 1)If I have someone up stairs walking, or if someone should jump in the room directly above ( I have four boys), would'nt that cause movement in the ceiling of the control room since it is directly or indirectly (not sure which is correct) attached to the floor joist via the RC? 2)Will I have as much isolation using RC as I would with an Independantly Framed ceiling. I am hoping to mix at night without disturbing my family. I was under the impression that the Independantly Framed ceiling was a better approach relative to isolation. Not having worked with either approach. I am not sure. What do you think? I beleive RC might actually be easier to do, just want to make sure it meets all of my requirements. Thanks again Glenn. Joe

Well, it has been a while since I have posted here. I have been through some surgery :( and am presently on the road to recovery :D . I would like to start off by thanking Glen and all those who have provided me encouragement and advice. There are many great folks out here. I respect your valuable input. Some things have changed for me lately. My studio budget situation has improved greatly, so I am now planning on completing the entire studio, instead of phasing over a few years . I am planning on starting in about 4 weeks, which is approximately when I plan to be healed enough from surgery to start the build. I will have plenty of assistance with the heavy stuff, and both a professional builder and a licensed electrician (close friends) to guide me along the build process. I have one question to ask before I finalize my design. Hopefully many of you will chime in. I would like to present this basement layout without the Studio floor Plan that I originally put together. A blank slate, if you will. I am hoping those of you who have done this before (you know who you are :wink: ), will take a look at my basement floor plan and make a recommendation on how you would use this space for a studio based on my requirements. Since I came up with most of the original Studio floor plan myself, and received advice on tweaking the space from this forum. I just wanted to get someone else’s un-biased view on using this space, from scratch. If it turns out that my original plan is as good as anything else, then at least I have confirmation. So that you do not have to wade back to my original post, I will summarize my requirements below. 1) Nice Control Room. Big enough for console, equipment rack, soffit mount speakers (maybe JBL 4300 series) and room for clients sitting on a couch and at the console. 2) ISO room for Vocals, Acoustic guitar or drums 3) One, maybe two small ISO rooms for vocals. 4) Large live area (may have to lose an ISO room to get this) Basement floor to bottom of the first floor joists measures 9ft. Well, That's it. I greatly appreciate all your advice. Please let me know if there is any other info you need. Thanks in advance. Joe

Here is the basement layout. The small black circles are support posts.

Genn, John any advice? Joe

patience... ;-)

Sorry Glenn, I'll work on that. It' comforting to know you are on the other end of the wire. :D Thanks. Joe

Glenn, John just checking. I realize you folks are VERY busy assisting us with requests for studio design assistance. Just thought I would see if there has been any progress, or if maybe what I have is really the best way to go. I appreciate your willingness to assist, and will continue to standby (patiently :) ) and await your response. Thank you sincerely. Joe

maybe something along these lines?

Glenn Very Nice! I would never have thought of that approach. I have been mulling this over for a few days and had a few questions and comments. I like the air-lock and the big control room. Could you tell me what ratio you chose, and what finished ceiling was assumed for the control room? I see the use lots of Solid core doors. This is good as I have 9 of them waiting to be used. The tracking rooms seem to be nicely sized as well. It would be nice to have a little larger Live Room, but I know it's difficult to squeeze it all in this space. - The rear entrance to the control room goes to what will eventually be a bathroom and a hang-out area. I think that is probably a good thing as it would keep guests away from the recording areas during tracking. Some concerns I would have would be: - The two posts in the large tracking room. Only one is shown, but there are actually two. I drew it in on the diagram below. Seems like that would be an eye-sore and potentially something that gets bumped alot. I don't know if there are any potential sound ramifications. Seems like the Posts might also obstruct the view into that room. - There is no view into the mid-sized tracking room from the control room. - It seems like the view into the large room, might not be very good since the view is to the left and behind the control desk. Anyway, just my thoughts. I thought it might be a good idea for you to see the Air Duct layout as this might affect the optimum room placement. It's attached as well. I really appreciate your input Glenn. I want to get started SOOO BAAD! But I want to do this right, with input from experts like yourself. Please let me know your thoughts after you have had time to kick around this new info. Thanks. Joe