Newly constructed home - Needs a basement Studio

Greetings to all members of the recording studio forum. I have been (as some have described) “a lurker” for several months. I have learned much, but still feel I have SO MUCH MORE to learn. It is a bit daunting. I am hoping (with your help) I can achieve my goal of having a professional quality recording facility in our new home. We recently finished building a new home. I spent a lot of time with our builder to design a custom home that would provide ample living space for my family, as well as space for a recording studio that could operate stand-alone from the remainder of the house. The house is a two story colonial design. The studio would occupy the basement. The basement is roughed-in for a toilet and sink, so that a bathroom can be provided for the studio. There is an additional entrance to the basement from the garage, so clients do not need to enter the house. We made sure that no drain lines cross the ceiling. All drains are straight vertical drops to minimize that “swishing” noise. The basement walls are 14 course concrete block, which yields a 9ft ceiling. All mechanics (Furnace, septic lines, water softener, water heater, data rack etc..) are placed close to perimeter walls to provide maximum usable space. The air conditioner is outside of the house. The furnace and blower are located in the basement. The air conditioner and furnace chosen by the builder are capable of supporting the main house and a recording studio in the basement. The floor joists are 12 inch engineered “low noise” I beam type joists. In retrospect, my only regret is that I did not find this web site before we built the house. There are a few things I would have changed. But that ship has sailed, so having described my environment, here is a summary of my “goals/wishes”. 1) Ability to record and not interrupt other activity in the house for my wife and children. Basically, minimal sound transfer to the main floor and upstairs. I may be mixing late at night. 2) Minimal transfer of outdoor noise and noise in the house, to the recording studio. 3) A nice size control room. Big enough for two at the console, couch in the back, equipment rack, flat response. I will use NSM10s on the console and speakers to be flush mounted, which have not been determined yet (any recommendations under $1,200.00?). 4) Maximum isolation between the control room and other studio rooms. 5) Good size main recording room. Not sure yet if it will be a live room or absorptive. 6) Two vocal/guitar Isolation booths 7) One more isolation booth which could accommodate drums. 8) I have 5 solid core wood doors that I would like to use if possible. Two of them have lead lining on both sides. I realize I would need to modify the doors with glass for visibility. 9) I would like to keep the ceilings as high as possible in the recording rooms, but not at the risk of sound isolation. I mostly record Christian music. Southern Gospel, Soloists, Christian Rock, Praise and Worship etc.. After the studio funds were recently depleted by the unexpected absorbent fees to have a yard put in. I am forced to fund the project month to month. Which I am determined to do. I will have two thousand dollars to get things started. The short term goal is to have the control room and one Iso booth completed by summer. I have a project starting then that will work with just those two rooms. After that project, construction would continue on the rest of the studio. I am an avid wood worker and have access to additional folks with wood working and framing skills, so labor and skills are available at a minimal fee (Pizza and Soda!). My goal is to start construction as soon as I have a solid set of floor plans, acoustical treatment construction plans, materials list, and sequence of events documented. Below you will see a picture of the front of the house. The house sits on 2.5 Acres, and there are no neighbors in close proximity. I have decided to keep the studio in the main portion of the basement. The other side of the basement will house the bathroom, and a pool table for our family and for customers. When the children leave this may become a kitchen/dining area, as I have seen included in many designs on this site. The dimensions for the studio are 31ft x 34ft. I have indicated where the support posts are, and any drain lines coming down vertically from the main floor. Also shown is the duct work, only where it protrudes below the floor joists. All of the mechanics (softener, water heater, furnace etc...) are out of the studio area. As mentioned before, the walls are concrete block. The small push-out area (1’ 7” x 6’ 6”) is at the front of the house. Not sure how or if this space can be used for anything (maybe for storage). Also, the stairs come down from the center of the house to the landing in the basement at the side of the house. Maybe the area under the stairs will be storage as well. I plan on using the room within a room construction as discussed many times in this forum. I would like input on the ceiling approach. There are obviously a number of ways to do this. I want to float the floor in the control room, and the Isolation booths. I am not sure where reflectors, traps, absorbers etc.. will be placed, and need help with this, as well as the ceiling in the control room. I’ve read most of the information on construction of the various acoustical devices, but still feel I do not have the full understanding that is required for implementation (need to keep researching this). I will be happy to provide additional information as requested, and appreciate all of your input. I am very excited about this project, and thank you all in advance for your assistance. Below are the following attachments: - Picture of completed house - Full floor plan - Clean floor plan of studio area without dimensions - Studio area with dimensions - Studio area showing duct work Joe Kurtz

Welcome to the forum, long-time-lurker-first-time-poster! First of all, very nice intro, and that's quite a beautiful home you've got there. 8) Given my 1/8-acre lot size, I'm quite jealous! :evil: ;) Are you planning to pull permits for this construction project, Joe? Don't miss my "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread. I'm betting you've become quite familiar with the permitting and inspection process, given your recent homebuilding experience. Hopefully you're not too jaded by that. ;-) You mentioned having "customers," which to me says you intend to run this studio as a "business," as opposed to a "hobby." A business license would also likely be in order, and note that there may be limitations on what kinds of businesses are allowed to be operated out of your home. A recent example is sandman's teaching/recording studio. Hopefully the rural nature of your surroundings will mean that such restrictions will be few or none... But don't assume so. You may discover there are certain building code or business license restrictions that you can plan and design around. For example, Ozzy in Kent, UK, discovered a fire safety regulation whichrequires that all of his studio rooms must have direct access to the stairwell. That's not a bad idea, even if your codes don't require it. You also need to learn a lot about ventilation. Since your studio won't have windows to the outside, code will requie you to ventilate mechanically. Even if your existing HVAC system includes a fresh air provision, that may not be sufficient. It's up to you to find out what level of on-demand air exchange is required. In my case, the minimum is 2 ACH (air changes per hour), meaning one full air change every 30 minutes. Here is the point in my project thread that I decided to incorporate the a Fantech HRV (heat recovery ventilator). I'll leave the design ideas to the experts. Meanwhile, you may want to try your hand at some layout plans on your own, post them here, and then see what kind of feedback you get. Best of luck to you and your project. --Keith :mrgreen:

Kieth Thank you for the input pertaining to permits. I did all of the wiring for my house, and am painfully aware of the procedure. However, I have reservations about going through that process for the basement. I read your thread and understand your points. I have also talked with local tradesmen in the consturction business that are friends of mine. They feel differently pertaining to the basement project, especially in light of the experience of the contractors (friends of mine) I will use, and my electrical experience. I know this point can be heavily debated. I hope to avoid that at this time, as I am still far from a set of plans. Your point about HVAC and ventilation is well taken. I plan on hiring a professional to advise for that stage of the project. I am also hoping to get good input here. There are a few other small home studios in the area that operate as hobby studios. I plan on doing that as well. Our county is not strict on that requirement, and for me, this really is more a hobby than a business. I followed your suggestion and put together my first cut at a design. I am sure it is weak and full of holes, but thats how you learn. So please take a look and let me know your thoughts. Thanks you. Joe

Since I have had no replies on my first-cut design so far, I thought I would ask a few pertinant related questions that have been nagging me. 1) I agree with John's viepoint on Sliding doors giving much more visibility. I would love to have them! I am just worried that the cost would be prohibitive. The SAE Institute Web site states that glass thickness for sliding doors should be at leat 5/16inch thick. However, when I went looking for good quality Sliding doors ($600-$1100) they all had 1/8 glass seperated by air space (as much as 7/8 of an inch). So was the SAE statement refering to the gap, or does someone actually make sliders with 5/16 inch glass. And what is the ball park price for a sufficient sliding door? 2) Control room angles. I have looked at many of the control room layouts recommended by John on this sight. I also have a control room plan from the Auralex site. The angles for the back half of the control room on the Auralex site seem to be much more accute. I liked the Auralex plan because it seemed to fit better in my basement, but I have great respect for Johns knowledge and expertise. I guess I am just looking for a good explanation of what the acceptable angles are in the CR, or for that matter, any other room such as the main recording room or ISO boothes etc.. Can anyone point me to a resources for this information that a normal human can understand? 3) Finally. Sketchup! This has been a love/hate relationship for me. I am quite adept at using Visio for building plans. I saved my Visio drawing as a .dwg file and imported to Sketchup. I thought all I would have to do is "pushups" on the wall sections and I would have an exact 3d version of my 2d file. Sketchup does not seem to work the same way in different areas of the diagram. Sometimes I can push through a wall to open it for window, sometimes not. Sometimes I can pushup a wall, sometime not. None of the Component sampler Windows or doors work correctly(very small sample) from the sketchup sampler. My walls are 4inches deep, and the doors or windows will not pass through the wall. I think they are made for thinner walls. Also,I do not like having to grab different tools for what should be a simple right click on a device. And, once a wall is created, I cannot delete, move, copy the entire wall for use elsewhere. When I try selecting it for one of those functions I get just a line section of the wall or just a pane of the wall. I have been through most of the tutorials. It just does not seem to utilize most of the standard MS Windows usability features for graphics programs. Am I missing something? Any thought, opinions?

Kieth I wanted to thank you for your compliment on the house. We are very pleased, and now that the stress of the whole build process is wearing off, we are really starting to enjoy it! Now as long as our property taxes stay under control, we might actually get to stay here :) By the way, your comments about the insurance company not paying out because of lack of inspection, started waying on my mind (I hate that :( ). I decided to call our local building department. I described what I was doing. I did not say I was building a studio, because I knew they would have no idea what I was talking about. I explained that I was finishing out my basement and would be adding walls and rooms, electrical and vent/duct work. I explained that it was a new house and that the furnace and air had been sized to support the basement. While I was waiting for the worse, the response came back, "All we want to do is an electrical inspection". I re-stated that I would be adding walls, and duct work. They said that if these rooms were not living spaces such as bedrooms or bathrooms and in the basement of the house, they just do an electrical inspection, period :D . So I guess that is what I will do. I am hoping this does not raise my taxes (my worse fear). Anyway, I will still have the assistance of a pro Heating and Air person, as well as a framer even though their will be no inspection for that (pays to have friends in the trade). Thanks for your input. I'll stand by for a response from John, unless someone addresses my previous questions. Joe

jkurtz wrote:

By the way, your comments about the insurance company not paying out because of lack of inspection, started waying on my mind (I hate that :( ).

I love that. ;-) Nawwww, just kidding! :lol:

I decided to call our local building department. I described what I was doing. I did not say I was building a studio, because I knew they would have no idea what I was talking about. I explained that I was finishing out my basement and would be adding walls and rooms, electrical and vent/duct work. I explained that it was a new house and that the furnace and air had been sized to support the basement. While I was waiting for the worse, the response came back, "All we want to do is an electrical inspection". I re-stated that I would be adding walls, and duct work. They said that if these rooms were not living spaces such as bedrooms or bathrooms and in the basement of the house, they just do an electrical inspection, period :D . So I guess that is what I will do.

Very interesting. I can see why you are comfortable with the results of your investigation! However, I have to say that I think you were omitting some potentially important facts that could very well have affected the answers you were given. While I agree that you're not creating any bedrooms or bathrooms, you are creating "habitable space" and I would think you would require more than just one (electrical) inspection. In order to "get an electrical inspection," I'm pretty sure you'd need to get a permit, and in order to get a permit, you'd need to present plans for review. In short, I think your abbreviated description of what you plan to do prompted an abbreviated (and, I think, inaccurate) response. Also, the response is not binding -- meaning, if it is later determined that you do require more inspections and a final certificate of occupancy (which I would think would be likely since an inspector would be there at least once to see what's really going on), quoting the person who answered your quickie phone call will not be a sufficient defense.

I am hoping this does not raise my taxes (my worse fear).

Sorry... I'm afraid it probably will. You're making a material improvement to the home. It will be worth more money when you're finished with the project -- just as it would have been worth more if this project had been incorporated into the initial build. Just because you bolted on the improvements after the fact does not qualify you for a property tax discount. If that were the case, then every large home would be built as a tiny home first, assessed for taxes, and then expanded. I understand that you may be in a "high property tax state" (unlike California, believe it or not) and that the idea of paying more taxes resulting from this project may take some getting used to... But, think about it -- you'll be increasing the usable square footage of your home by a huge amount. So, as much as it hurts, be prepared to put a value on your improvements. The value will be based on what it would cost to have all of the work done professionally -- there is no "sweat equity" discount. You may be able to fudge things a bit by calculating the value based on the additional square footage only. (In my case, I was prepared to value my little room as high as $15K, but the permit counter guy told me I could save money and avoid scrutiny by claiming $10K.)

Anyway, I will still have the assistance of a pro Heating and Air person, as well as a framer even though their will be no inspection for that (pays to have friends in the trade).

Having pros on the project is indeed an asset... But, as I stated, I'm not convinced that you won't require a mechanical and framing inspection. I'm sorry to be such a buzz-kill. There's a chance I could be wrong on this, and if I am, I'll eat my words... But until you go to the building department with all your plans and are then issued a permit with an inspection tag that has only one box checked (the one beside "electrical inspection"), I will remain convinced otherwise. :roll: --Keith

Kieth Only time will tell. Until I come up with plans, I suppose it's moot. Joe

I am not sure what I should do at this point. I posted for design assistance three weeks ago, and have not heard anything yet. I don't mind waiting, as I am sure John is a busy person, and I appreciate what he does for everyone. Can anyone tell me if I have done something incorrectly, or should I just be more patient. I apologize for even bringing this up, and I hope I did not offend anyone with my cry for help. Thank you. Joe

Hey sorry I missed this one. Your initial design looks good however I am concerned about access to the exits.... Is that northward area available???? The exit to the right of your plot, what is that??? Cellar exit???? I will note for the control room you are on the right track with regards to designing for acoustical concerns (internal acoustics)

Thank you for your response. I will try to answer your questions as best I can. - The "northward" area (Top of the plan) has no exit. The main studio room has two exits. One through the stairs on the west side of the plan which leads up to the main floor of the house. The second exit on the east side of the plans leads up and out through the garage. The drum booth, control room and main studio area have direct access to exits. The vocal boothes must go through the main studio area to exit. Thank you Joe

Ok Cool. So far as your drum booth, angle the south wall (like a v or a reverse v) That will ensure no parallel surfaces, what you have done to the east wall is cool. The upper section..... What is that section??? <--- Ignore that.... The upper section. :) The north wall between the booths needs some angles... the east wall (bottom door way) I would extend that wall to intersect closer to where the upper east door is located.

Bryan Thank you so much for your suggestions. I will start working on those changes. Just a note: There is no science to the two vocal booths, drum booth or main recording room. I am not using any particular angle that was planned out (I am not sure how that works). Should I be using specific angles, or is it mostly just important to get the non-parallel walls? The control room is an exception, as I did lift those angles from plans on this site. Thanks. Joe

12 degrees is the minimum #, so for 2 walls a minimum of 6 degrees of angle each (towards each other) This is a short description. Search the design forum for room angles...there is much more in depth info dating back to 2003

OK Brian. I think I have made the changes you suggested. Would you please let me know your thoughts? I have not been successful finding any good info on the angle theory, but will keep searching. I showed the current set of plans to my framer who had concerns about the East entrance to the control room. The distance from the concrete wall to the edge of the Bass trap section of the control room is only 2ft 3 inches. He suggested it should be at least 32 inches. If I do this, I fear I will have to shrink the control room to keep everything symetrical. This reduces width and length. Do you have any suggestions? I am also considering using Sliding doors instead of a window and a door between the drum booth and the CR. I saw a spec in a post somewhere that suggested the glass for the sliding door should be 5/16in thick. I have not seen such a door anywhere. Even doors costing $1,100 had two panes of 1/8 or 3/16 in glass with 3/4 to 7/8 inch gap. Can you tell me what I should be looking for? Thank you for your assistance? Joe

I agree with your framer, although you dont have to change the interior of the control room, just that little notched out section near that east entrance needs to be pulled in a bit. That ownt hurt you.... Otherwise.....PERFECTO... Now build this thing and have fun :) BTW if I missed this, what are the interior dim. of the control room?????

jkurtz wrote:

I am also considering using Sliding doors instead of a window and a door between the drum booth and the CR. I saw a spec in a post somewhere that suggested the glass for the sliding door should be 5/16in thick. I have not seen such a door anywhere. Even doors costing $1,100 had two panes of 1/8 or 3/16 in glass with 3/4 to 7/8 inch gap. Can you tell me what I should be looking for?

Sliding doors/ 9 light entry doors (pella/reliant, etcc) are fine (in a double door arrangement of course) PAtio French door or plain old sliding patio doors as you suggested..... One suggestion, I would float the control room floor and the drum room floor. Leaving the big room unfloated, maybe floating the iso room floors.... A properly damped floated floor in that drum room will give a GREAT kick tone aside form normal tuning and drum selection....

I also agree with the framer. In fact, building code may require it. I seem to recall seeing something about hallways needing to have a minimum width of 30" or something... :roll:

Bryan Sorry to get back to you so late. I was enjoying the Thanksgiving week with the family. I wanted to answer your question about the CR dimensions. I have attached a drawingof the floor plan with dimensions. It is difficult to know where to pull the dimensions from due to the iregular shape. I hope I have given you enough detail. The ceiling height is an unknown at this point. I am not sure how high it should be. I do want to slant it as other have done, but am not sure of the formula for calcuating the height and angle, as well as the apex point. From the concrete floor to the bottom of the floor joist above is exactly 9 feet. As you had mentioned, I do plan on floating the CR, Drum booth and the two Vocal booths. To preserve precious ceiling height I had planned on using 2x4s (as opposed to 2x6s) for the floor joists, floated on Auralex U-boats, unless someone has a good reason for me to do differently. I thought I would use resiliant channel and two layers of Drywall above the CR, and Main Recording area, to keep noise transfer to the main floor of the house to a minimum. For the drum booth I had planned on putting in it's own ceiling completely isolated from the upstairs (No RC), and Owens Corning 703 insulation above that. I thought that might give me the additional isolation required to isolate the drums from the main floor of the house. The walls of all of the rooms will be isolated from the floor structures with Auralex Sheetblock. A few questions: 1) What did you mean by "properly damped floated floor" in the drum booth. I had planned on using U-boats, then 2x4s, then two layers of 3/4 OSB. Is that damped, or is there something else that needs to be done? 2) I was not sure what your response to my sliding door question was. Am I OK with the typical $450-$600 sliding door?There would be two doors facing each other and off parallel by 12 degrees. Minimum seperation is about three inches. 3) What height should the Apex of my CR false ceiling be? I believe I will lose 6 inches of height from the isolated floor, and probably 4inches from the Resiliant Channel ceiling. 4) Will 2x4s on U-boats provide sufficient isolation for an Iso room floor? 5) The vocal booths each have a small section of parallel walls. Your last comment pertaining to the design was that everything looks good. Should I be concerned about the small section of parallel walls? 6) I would like to start determining where Traps, resonators, etc will need to go, and what type should be used as well as the construction technique. I have read Ethan Winer's Acoustic Treatment article several times. I am still digesting some of that information. Is there a guru that can tell by my plans where I should place the proper acoustic treatment devices and what type? I am assuming that some sort of Bass Trap will go in every corner. Is that a valid assumption? Those are all the questions I have right now. Thank you so much for your assistance.

jkurtz wrote:

. . . I had planned on using 2x4s (as opposed to 2x6s) for the floor joists, floated on Auralex U-boats, unless someone has a good reason for me to do differently. . .

I do not believe in U-boats. See my "Mason Industries' FSN Floating Floor Concrete Slab Test Data" thread, especially this:

I took the Auralex U-boats off my list because of their lack of published specs and their subsequent deafening silence on the subject when pressed for more information. As a result, I've taken EPDM off my list as well: no specs, no proof: no use.
EDIT: I just found this document, which does provide more information. Unfortunately, it is not linked from the product main page or the U-Boat Spacing FAQ or the U-Boat Weight Support FAQ. In fact, the latter link illustrates my "no specs, no proof" point the best. :?

Kieth Thanks for your input. I will press them for technical specs as I get closer to finished plans. If they cannot provide adequate info, I'll use another product. The two main attributes I like about their product are the shape (wraps around a stud), and the extended life compared to other such products. Just out of curiosity, HAS ANYONE USED THE AURALEX U-BOATS? Joe

I have several questions that have not been responded to yet. I thought I would re-post them with a few additional ones. Thank you all for your assistance. 1) Bryan Giles: What did you mean by "properly damped floated floor" in the drum booth. I had planned on using U-boats, then 2x4s, then two layers of 3/4 OSB. Is that damped, or is there something else that needs to be done? 2) I was not sure what your response to my sliding door question was. Am I OK with the typical $450-$600 sliding door?There would be two doors facing each other and off parallel by 12 degrees. Minimum seperation is about three inches. 3) What height should the Apex of my CR false ceiling be? I believe I will lose 6 inches of height from the isolated floor, and probably 4inches from the Resiliant Channel ceiling. 4) Will 2x4s on U-boats provide sufficient isolation for an Iso room floor, or or I need 2x6s. 5) The vocal booths each have a small section of parallel walls. Is that an issue. 6) I would like to start determining where Traps, resonators, etc will need to go, and what type should be used as well as the construction technique. I have read Ethan Winer's Acoustic Treatment article several times. I am still digesting some of that information. Is there a guru that can tell by my plans where I should place the proper acoustic treatment devices and what type? I am assuming that some sort of Bass Trap will go in every corner. Is that a valid assumption? 7) I noticed that the max width and max length of my control room is about the same. I took the plan from Johns samples. Is this an issue? John can you shed any light on questions 6 and 7. Thanks