Bluebird audio studio build

Hello chaps my name is steve Honest, and i am a pedal Steel player mostly here in London in the UK, I work as head of Music Dept for a Film ComPany called Bluebird, and we are about to move to a much larger premises in Hersham Surry. the company have alloted me 1200sq feet to build a new recording studio, and so after trying to sho horn everything into the budget i have decided to buy Mr Gervais s book, and design and manage the build myself. the money which i would have used for a desigener can now be spent on buying a pair of ATC 110 monitors , I have been following this forum for a week or so and i really have enjoyed the level of encoragment and help on here, its very positive and i hope in the very near future to tap into that support, im sure i am going to need it!! i have converted a few rooms in the past, with quite reasnable results , but this is the first time i have started with a empty shell . im sure its going to be fun best steve

check out John's SAE site for some plans as well as digging around this site. could you post detailed measurements included anything that may be of concern like structural, plumbing, windows, doors, elelctric etc. check the "read me" stickie for a list of other things to post as well.

i want to ask , while i am waitng for my copy of Gervias to arrive, i intend to put a raised platform i the back of my control room , so the couch can get a better view of the room and window, can i use that space under the couch platform as a big ass bass trap? can i give it fabric frounts stuff it with rocksilk slabs and perhaps even go mad and cut slots int he top of it? or is this just being daft on my part? Perhaps i would be better filling it so its olid? say with sand? steve

make the platform to avoid vibrations, but you could use it for a bass trap. you can even stagger the supports so its tuned on multiple frequencies as it bends and turns (think maze). however, since its not necessarily on corners or strong mode positions, it may not be as efficient as other traps and locations in the room.

so i think i might be better going for a solid unmovable platform, the book hasnt arrived yet , but i am filling time till i get keys to tehspace so i can mesure up proper;y, learing how to use sketch up. waiting is hell ,but heaven is waiting. steve

so chaps we finally have possesion of the space, and i now have the all import maximum slap to slab distance from the concrete floor of the shell to the concerete ceiling of the shell i have 3160 mm, not a lot, i know, but at least now i can ask what do you think i shoul dhave for my width and length? i hvae plenty of space to work in , but i dont mind sqeezing down to make the ro modes work for me. so guys where do i start? steve

so chaps i have teaken a bit of clearence out for a sand filled floor platform and some space above the insulation in the cieling and left my sekf with 9 feet 6 inches of hight, and using hte rome mode charts from the gervias book i have come up with 13frrt wide by 18 feeet long as my room ratio , what do you think? steve

Aloha Steve, According to the ratios given in Rod Gervais’ book “Build it Like the Pros,” http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5670 he points out both L.W.Sepmeyer’s & M.M. Louden’s formulas most widely used in professional studios worldwide. He also notes that the orders listed are (top to bottom) the first to third best ratios in both cases. L.W. Sepmeyer Height Width Length 1.00 1.14 1.39 9’6” x 10’8” x 13’2” 1.00 1.28 1.54 1.00 1.60 2.33 M.M. Louden Height Width Length 1.00 1.40 1.90 9’6” x 13’3” x 18’ 1.00 1.30 1.90 1.00 1.50 2.10 That said, it looks like you've got a good place to start with. :wink: Have you decided on what wall angles and acoustic treatments you'll be using? Aloha 8)

hi kendale thank you for confirming my use of the old abacus!!! im still toddling thru rod s book so havny worked out the angles yet, how do i do that? is there a section in the book that helps to choose angles ? as i do want some, and also i was planning to ask you guys about the inide out wall, is it what i think it is , where the plaster board is onthe outer leaeve? and i cloth cover the RW5 to make a absorbant panal? cos what i had in mind is working out the areas where absoring would be the most benificial, and make those panals cloth covered Rw5 and then where there might be less absorbtion needed finish in Gyp board and wood, so as not to make a boring looking room. steve

Steve, Answer on your question here: (rather like to keep this together). http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/showf ... ber=546811 Louden: This is the only Copyright picture you'll find anywhere, rating them. Strictly theoretically as per the Louden approach: The perfect should should be: 0.00 The worst published Louden Ratio I pragmatically set to 1.00. Hence the lower the number the better. The best published Louden Ratio as per this scale = 0.4046 The best ratio I calculated over 3321 points = 0.3865. That are the darkest green areas. But in-between these points likely very small areas can go lower between 0.385 to 0.386 (too much work to investigate now and senseless). In fact these numbers improve to the center of these darkest green areas, but will likely nowhere go below this 0.385+ as minimum. What you can see that there is not such a thing as a perfect ratio. {0.00 equals best while scale starts at 0.38} Also note that the whole room ratio approach as per different Authors is still under discussion. Note: I should need to manually correct that lobbing on that 1/1 length/width ratio (the 1.2:1.2 to 1.8:1.8 45° line), which is caused by too little input data, but that practically doesn't matter. I don't like to rape the basic calculation principles just to make it look nicer/more logical there. Maybe do that in the future (defining a 2D regression between these 45° points, and remapping without influencing the rest). Sepmeyer I don't know. I don't have original document now (lost). Maybe Rod can answer this. For now I'm even not sure if Sepmeyer did give a sort order, or just 3 best ratios covering different room shapes.

hey Eric wow what a handy diagram, i am going to spend a bit of time digesting this , this diagram is going to be really useful in allowing me to dice up my live room its a biger room but with the same cieling clearance, so i can come across a ratio that will work , thanks buddy this is great. Now can ia sk my next one? i wan to angle the walls in the control room how do i begin to think about choosing the angles/ i have got a pair of Dynaudio M3 `s which i want to soffit mount, and i think i might want o go for johns 90 degree triangle, how would i decide or at least start to think about my angles? steve

Eric_Desart wrote:

This is the only Copyright picture you'll find anywhere, rating them.

i had it blown up and hung as a poster on my wall, er, next to my other poster of some of your other work, which is next to my Farah Fawcett poster. :twisted: for the walls? at least 6 degrees on each side and preferably more. in the sketch they're 12 degrees. however your constrained somewhat by the width of the room and achieving a good triangle between the monitors and the mix position. typically this would be an equilateral triangle on 60 degrees (or 30 degrees per leg). overhead, a cloud would help both in creating a proper reflective and absorption surface. this can be angled about 12-15 degrees. howver, you also need to consider the width of the soffit to ensure the baffle extends from the monitor correctly which likely means the soffit will have to be at least 4' wide. and so you would probably adjust things to pull the side walls out and away at a steeper angle in order to get the proper wide and still keep enough space for a window in front. another option - mount the monitors over the window but you'll still need to consider the soffit width, window below it to extend the baffle, and so on...

HI glen mate thanks for your posting and drawing, you have helped enormously, the width of the sofit was going to be my next concern. please may i ask, you have the mids and tweeters inside on the m3 s is this how you reccomend we mount them? i would have thought the mid and tweets go to the outside, but then does this exite the side walls too much and cause flutter and refelection? probs. cheers steve

you could flip the high frequency drivers to the outside - but i'd do that on the larger soffits... i would actually prefer to mount them over the CR window and angle them down. put the woofers overhead. side to side they're too big (for my preferences, they're too big for this size room, did i mention i think they're too big?)

Hmm this is getting very intresting glenn, so if my room is going to be 13.3 feet wide would you still reccomend mouting them over the CR window? and at what angles? for downwards tilt and also for making the magic triangle, but having just had another read of your reply i seem to be geeting the feeling you think the m3 s are too big for this size room , would i better off with my BM15 as? and soffit mount them/? i love them speakers , if oyu think i ma better off there then i am guided by you steve

you use them for mix checks while using the BM15s on stands for most of the work....

cool glenn just we do now with the 15 a `s and a piar of small celestians. your drawing has them mpunted up and aside the window with the mid highs in a down situation , so i f i go over the cr window which will be about 7 feet wide by 4 feet tall i should mount like this? steve

depends on how high the monitors sit above your ear. past a certain point the high frequency will be problematic so you would flip them to keep the treble as close to level as possible (since the bass isn't (as) directional...) if the speakers are lower in the soffits, then you'd mount them treble up.

hi glenn so having had a bit of a think about it, i have gone for a new room dimension, to ease them big monitors into the wall, in a height of 9.6 feet i have gone for width 15.6 and length 20 .9 this will allow my 7 ffot wondow and soffits at 4 feet wide at 45 degrees but the side walls went out to 3 degrees, what do you think? im not keen on the smaller control room as i spend 90% of my studio time working in the control room so i want the luxery of a bit more space. but without strying off the louden chart adversly. best steve

and i hope with a bit of luck here is a jpeg of my drawing for your consideration steve

i would try this instead.

hi mate thanks for the drawing, the space between the soffits is narroow again, but i was thikning what if i went for a narrow and tall window? the other thing i wanted to ask, is i have been in some control rooms that seem wider then they are deep, and i know the general rule of thumb os to work i the length of the room , but would there be any sense in turning the rom round to gain width for the soffits? and maybe not having as much depth? steve ps i think i have to be in Pennslyvania around the first wek of jan if that is near Tappan can i buy you dinner for all your help so far? steve

hi me old mate here is a nother drawing i hvae done based on your kind suggestion. im still keen to hear what you think about soining round 90 degs, but i think this is how i am interperting what you have told me cheers steve

hello again everybody we dont have a sesion in today so i thought i would get a bit of this done, may i show you my start point for the live room for our new studio i wanna do a live end dead end room and i have thought maybe this as a start shape, what do you guys think? steve

i wouldn't use 90 degees unless i had to.