Forum members -
I've been a member of this forum for a couple years now. Sometimes posting and other times just reading. I bought & read Rod's book a year or so ago and it has taught me quite a bit (as well as this forum) many thanks to Rod and all you guys!
Now that my kids are no longer babies, I have time and *some* money. So working with what money I do have, I wanted to run my current build by you to get all of your opinions, thoughts, or any mistakes you may see me making?
I DID get all my permimts beforehand.
Please understand that in most cases, I know "what" and "how" to build (according to pro-studio techniques), but that damned "budget-thing" always gets in the way!
- Both my Live & Control rooms are 10' deep x 11' wide with a 7'-6" ceiling.
- The floors are just carpet over the concrete.
- All walls (against the concrete basement walls) are 3" away from the concrete with plastic vapor barrier.
- All studs are metal w/Track.
- Insulation will be stuffed in between the studs (John's Manville R11).
- The walls (that divide the control & live rooms) is a double-wall, with a 3.5" air gap in between each.
- Each walls has it's own sliding glass door.
- One side of the double-wall will get double-layer 1/2" rock and the other side of the double-wall will get double-layer 5/8" rock.
- All my walls are framed out from the concrete floor right to the ceiling joists.
- I installed "double-leg-channel" (hat-track) right to the engineered I-beams. I'm going to stuff R11 insulation between the joists. And then install one layer of 5/8" rock to the ceiling channel. (budget restricts me from doing double-layer)
- I'm going to build 10 panels using Jonh's Manville 2'x4'x2" acoustic panels (the same as O.C. 703) for the walls and the ceiling/wall corners.
I'm also going to do the super-chunk bass traps (floor to ceiling) in each corner.
I will post pictures of what's done, and as I progress.
So, any mistakes, thoughts, suggestions?
Fianlly Have Started My Studio Build!! (after 5 years)
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 9591.
Brad,
Man I feel your pain with the budget thing!
My only thought is you probably wont get a huge amount of isolation at the ceiling level (and some possible flanking between rooms) because of having a low ceiling and not being able to have separate totally detached ceilings.
Having said that, you may not personally have issue with that, it may work fine for you or at least be able to live with. I would try to hang the ceiling sheetrock where it did not bridge from one room to another if possible stop it at the inside of each room.
Making compromises is part of the equation some times, as long as it does not involve safety compromises.
Thanks for the reply! How would someone get around that? My floor joists do run from one side of the house to the other, and along that length, I do have two rooms. But the ceiling is contained within each room. But each ceiling -is in fact- going to be attached to the same set of joists, so this will present an issue for me?Brad, My only thought is you probably wont get a huge amount of isolation at the ceiling level (and some possible flanking between rooms) because of having a low ceiling and not being able to have separate totally detached ceilings.
There are probably different ways, but the only one I can think of off the top of my head is to use the existing joists for one room, but for the second room finish out the walls just a hair short of the overhead joists and rest the second rooms ceiling joists on THAT rooms perimeter walls where the sit in BETWEEN the existing overhead joists.
I guess for that matter both rooms can be done that way to decouple from the floor above, but you may not have free room between all floorjoits to put new ceiling joists.... am getting dizzy...
bump...
Anyone?
What does the plastic vapor barrier, rather, why does this wall require a plastic vapor barrier?Forum members - - All walls (against the concrete basement walls) are 3" away from the concrete with plastic vapor barrier.
Brad - can you show us pics of the room you are starting with. It's hard to know just by your description.
perhaps you could consider something like this.
cheers
john
Hey John - thanks for the reply. So my framing inspection passed a little while ago. I'll snap some pix and post em sometime today.Brad - can you show us pics of the room you are starting with. It's hard to know just by your description. perhaps you could consider something like this. cheers john
Ok, here are my pix:
Hope this helps in the analysis.
Brad,
Hello! Maybe you knew already but if your concerned with ceiling isolation you shouldn't use the hat track. Over on Lou's construction thread they've been talking about the very same thing! I guess attaching the drywall to the hat track is not really all that much better than screwing it directly to the joists. If there is any benefit at all it is only marginal. If you need all the iso you can get you might look at the possibility of taking it down and putting up actual resilient channel which is different than regular hat track/channel. I have budget constraints on my project as well so hopefully that wouldn't hurt too much!
Chris
That is a well done job, it looks good and I envie you folks that get out and do these builds:)
And I still have an unanswered question.
What is the added benefit of vapor barrier on the concrete wall?
As it applies to building, the vapor barrier is to aid in keeping condensation from completely saturating insulation if it is installed. It gives it somewhere to go, so to speak. My house has this. On the insulation filled walls it has a barrier over it, then sheetrock. It has many reasons for being there but I do not see how it applies to covering a concrete wall.
Is it just to get out of painting the wall?:)
Not much better then screwing it to furring strips.I guess attaching the drywall to the hat track is not really all that much better than screwing it directly to the joists.
xSpace - yup, it's only to keep any moisture off the sheetrock, that's about it. Or - if by some chance my walls *leak*, the water will run down the wall & plastic and into the french drain. Hope this helps.And I still have an unanswered question. What is the added benefit of vapor barrier on the concrete wall?
Yeah, I know, I know, I know.... (LOL). I read that the RC channel - the single sided stuff wouldn't hold the weight of sheet rock? Can you post the link to Lou's thread? Thanks.Brad, Hello! Maybe you knew already but if your concerned with ceiling isolation you shouldn't use the hat track. Over on Lou's construction thread they've been talking about the very same thing! I guess attaching the drywall to the hat track is not really all that much better than screwing it directly to the joists. If there is any benefit at all it is only marginal. If you need all the iso you can get you might look at the possibility of taking it down and putting up actual resilient channel which is different than regular hat track/channel. I have budget constraints on my project as well so hopefully that wouldn't hurt too much! Chris
I have 2 layers of 5/8" sheetrock on my ceiling RC without any problems. I am not sure where you read that, but this is what it was designed to do (hold sheetrock!). Good luck!I read that the RC channel - the single sided stuff wouldn't hold the weight of sheet rock?
Here is the link to Lou's Studio Build:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9156
I think the hat channel discussion starts on page 9 or so...
Yeah, you're right. But aside from the hat-channel, does everything else look good? Will only one layer of rock be REALLY bad? I can always add another layer. Plus, I'm gonna put rock "barriers" in between the joists.
I'll be posting more as I progress... Those damn inspections, they hold ya up!
Everything else looks good to me... As far as layers of sheet rock, it is all about mass baby!!! In Rod's book (page 35) states that "...every doubling of mass increases isolation by an additional 6 dB." That is a lot!!! He does go on to say that this "mass law" applies to non-rigid assemblies, but can be used as an approximation for wall use as well, A general rule of thumb is that 6 dB is twice as loud.Yeah, you're right. But aside from the hat-channel, does everything else look good? Will only one layer of rock be REALLY bad? I can always add another layer. Plus, I'm gonna put rock "barriers" in between the joists.
i guess too late for this, but i used the rubber mounts to hold my hat channel. works great, and is holding 2 layers 5/8 rock, with green glue, and 2 clouds.
you are in good shape, using hat channel with the resilient mounts is good. its only when you attach the hat channel directly to the studs or joists that you lose a lot of the isolation value.
Glenn wrote:
I can definitely vouch for that! :oops: :oops: Brad - forgive me Dude, but I'm a bit confused - all of your pics on page 1 of your thread, show some superb steel work, and a regular hat channel system mounted to wooden battens screwed directly to what appears to be manufactured vertical plywood joists! :shock: :shock: Yet on page 2 everything is mounted in rubber clips, also, the doors are different as well as proportional visual dimensions / cross bracing etc. Are these two pages showing pics of the same build from different perspectitives, or are they showing two different builds? Please tell me if I've missed something! Regards, Lou. 8)you are in good shape, using hat channel with the resilient mounts is good. its only when you attach the hat channel directly to the studs or joists that you lose a lot of the isolation value.
Lou:
It is your old eyes my friend! They are from two different posters! The ones on page 2 are from another forum member showing the original poster how he did it! check the names again!
:) If so that or not old eyes, but overworked. I'm getting overworked already following Lou's thread. And with all these pictures even my computer needs rest before getting to the end of these individual pages.Lou: It is your old eyes my friend!
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Sorry Brad - Great job - apart from you know what!
Kind regards,
Lou. 8)
I know... Actually, this is my "first/starter" studio. It's really just an upgrade from me sitting in my basement with extension cords, and pull-chain lighting. My recordings have been coming out real well (considering). I do plan on moving once the market starts moving because my wife and I want property! But this is a great way to get my feet wet. The next time, it'll be done the right way. By the way, what do those clips cost?:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: Sorry Brad - Great job - apart from you know what! Kind regards, Lou. 8)