medboyle's studio build

I finally got started on building the studio on Wednesday. there was a long delay due to a shortage of performance plasterboard. I am building a double frame using metal studs and putting to layers of lafarge 15mm Db check plasterboard on either side. I have a design thread but i am still thinking about moving some of the internal space. I have a few pics and will keep updating as often as i can. Cheers Day 1 - The Outer Frame

Day 2 - We got the first layer of plasterboard on the outer frame which will be sealed and taped tomorrow. I know you would normally do all the framing first but space gets a little tight with all the plasterboard lying around.

Day 3 I managed to get the inside frame put up today now i need to get the insulation ordered :D

Looks like you're getting some good easy progress going. I'm currently building with similar materials but the building we're in is so cock-eyed it's unreal. Not not a level or plumb surface in the whole place. It's probably gonna take us about a year just to get rid of all the dust from shaping plasterboard. : :shock:

It looks like there is a set of small black strips connecting the two walls together... what is that? If it is metal, won't that compromise the integrity of the 2 leaf system?

doublehelix wrote:

It looks like there is a set of small black strips connecting the two walls together... what is that? If it is metal, won't that compromise the integrity of the 2 leaf system?

My guess is that they are there temporarily to hold the walls together and keep them stable until the ceiling joists go up.

Hi Guys, Thanks for looking in, Philr, yeah we've been lucky the room is actually the old gym hall in a school which has been converted into business units. so the floor in the main is ok. The Black metal is a V Brace which according to the manual is"A sound and vibration isolating strengthening brace for twin walls and partitions." It basically has the metal taking 3 v shapes in the middle, i'll post a pic next time i'm back along

You might want to check into that Medboyle. My understanding is, if at all possible the walls should NOT touch. If you DID do this, and you were using the 1st (outer) frame as a "brace", I would think you would need something like this... http://209.200.80.33/html/SUBMITTALS/AR ... AL/wic.pdf http://kineticsnoise.com/arch/kwsb.html The brace has neoprene to help decople the two frames that tie together. If I'm not mistaken, if those are metal brace supports you are using, you will lose some sound isolation due to flanking noises passing from one frame to the other.

There have ben developments which can be read about here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8210 Here are some up to date pics, i am going to pick up the rest of the insulation on monday the is should be full steam ahead cheers

So, what's the story with those "sound and vibration isolating strengthening braces"? :roll:

This is taken from the Lafarge website. They manufacture the brace V-brace "A sound and vibration isolating strengthening brace for twin walls and partitions. Acoustic Isolation: + 5 RwdB between frequencies 50 hertz to 125 hertz Maximum strength: 500 N" :? I have to admit i'm not sure what this means exactly but my cousin works for lafarge and it was there tech guy who suggested using this method. I appreciate there is no neoprene or the like to help decouple the walls but i think the idea is that the three v groves somehow dissapate(i think thats the right word) the sound. I'll soon find out if its a load of rubbish when we strike up the band :D And looking on the bright side, if it dosnt do what it says then a least it might stop someone else using it :lol:

Got a link to the page you found that from? Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, maybe it's something in between... :roll: "dissipate" = good word. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Yeah no problem, here's the link thanks Alan Edited to link directly to manufacturer's product specification document... --Keith

I would compare that Rwdb (Airborn sound measurement) rating from your brace with a brace that has neoprene. I would also call each company that manufactures the brace and explain what I wanted to use the product for and make sure the brace you have would give you the best isolation the way you have it attatched. On the Lafarge web site, the info they give pretty much lines up with a lot of the info given here, but I'm just not sure as far as the product in question. I've never seen any type of recommended brace on here that supports a frame (to ceiling joists) or connects to another frame for support where some type of decoupling wasn't recommended. And neoprene was one of the primary items listed to help for this. I'm not saying this type brace is incorrect or wouldn't work, mainly I've never seen one like this. I would think some investigation into this is worth your time. Hey, I'm no Pro, so take my thoughts for what it's worth. However, ESPECIALLY since you have steel frames I really question connecting 2 steel frames with a metal brace. Seems like flanking noises transmissions are inevitable.

Here's some information I found on the manufacturer's Web site...

ACOUSTIC BRACKET FROM LAFARGE BOOSTS SOUND INSULATION PERFORMANCE

It looks like it could be the "real deal" to me... But it's unfortunate that there aren't more detailed specs. It appears to work on the same principle as resilient channel. If you can avoid using it, then I think you should avoid using it... :roll: ...If you need it for stability, though, then use it. Walls that fall over don't stop sound very well. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

thank for the advice guys, i spoke to my cousin so i've to email him any questions i have on monday and he'll try to get the tech guys to come up with some answers. I will post whatever i mange to find out. I do need them(or something else) to stabilize the wall Once again thanks for the advice this website ask the questions i wouldnt even have thought of :!: cheers Alan

Hi Guys, Sorry its been so long since my last post but things have been hectic here. Anyway the studio is virtually finished so the pics will come fast now. I'll start where i left off: Pic2: The wall detail 2 layers of 15mm Lafarge Db Check plasterboard, 70mm Stud, 60mm insulation, 70mm stud, 2 layer 15mm Lafarge Db Chech Plasterboard Pic2a: The Greatest invention since sliced bread, After putting up all the ceiling boards i wished i'd paid the extra £20 and got the automatic one. Pic3: The loons really do run this asylum. ( Its me big brother, don't wory the meds kicked in shortly after the photo!) Pic4: First Go at a slat box. Went ok except i found out i'm not soo good(or straight) with a circular saw so there was a few miss cuts. thanks to lou's great post i now know there is such a thing as a saw guide. Alas to late :!: Pic5: The Floor goes down. We went for a laminate on account of cost. 4o square meters of real wood flooring would have put a big dent in the budget. Pic6: The First 2 Slat boxes in place in the live room. Section 2 to follow

Here we go with more: Pic7: 6 Slat boxes built and in place in the live room Pic9: The start of the soffit and slat on the left side pf the control room Pic10: Slats on and Soffit Insulation Pic11: Lots of slats means Pic12: Even more saw dust, 3 black bags to be exact. If anyone is cutting MDF Please WEAR A MASK its nasty stuff Pic13: Finished slats in the live room, stained and ready for action more to follow

and some more: Pic14: The other 4 Slat boxes in the live room Pic15: Vocal booth vertical slats notice the arty out of focus shot :oops: Pic16: The soffits after painting today(paint is still wet) the blue plasterboard is where the window was originally going to go but after looking round glass suppliers we decided against it. We are going to install a 3way camera setup. Thi space between the soffits will be filled with insulation and then covered with the centre piece which will be revealed soon. Pic17: Control room side wall slat Pic18: Control room rear wall treatment, floor to ceiling absorbers based on John's designs. Well thats all for now, i am starting to write up my whole experience and will post when i finish, i'll include all the material used, mistakes made etc so hopefully it can help others. all that is left to be done is the centre panel in the control room and the clouds for all the rooms which with a bit of luck i might get time to start at the weekend. Anyway its been fun, thanks for looking in, now its been so long How do i tune that guitar :D cheers Alan

Folks, although it would be nice to see some actual test results on this product (and our friend should ask his relative to obtain that for him - something HAS to have been tested) =-I have to add that I can see easily the principals behind the design - and would actually be very surprised if it did not work properly. Rod

Pic16: The soffits after painting today(paint is still wet) the blue plasterboard is where the window was originally going to go but after looking round glass suppliers we decided against it. We are going to install a 3way camera setup. Thi space between the soffits will be filled with insulation and then covered with the centre piece which will be revealed soon.

We faced a similar decision in our build. After shopping around for prices on 1/2" and 3/4" laminate glass we decided it'd be cheaper to buy a plasma screen and set up a video link. :roll:

Hey Rod, Thanks for looking in. Your book was like my best friend whilst i was building. Thanks very much for making a book even the un-experienced like me could follow. As far as the V Brace goes My cousin has since moved from Lafarge but I have managed to get someone else to get me the test results and as soon as i have them i will post the details for Experts like your self to look over. PhilR: Thanks for looking in. I totally agree, my problem was also that i didnt feel confident with any of the company's i went to. In an ideal world i would have windows but this is a compromise i am willing to make. Cheers Alan

PhilR wrote:

Pic16: The soffits after painting today(paint is still wet) the blue plasterboard is where the window was originally going to go but after looking round glass suppliers we decided against it. We are going to install a 3way camera setup. Thi space between the soffits will be filled with insulation and then covered with the centre piece which will be revealed soon.

We faced a similar decision in our build. After shopping around for prices on 1/2" and 3/4" laminate glass we decided it'd be cheaper to buy a plasma screen and set up a video link. :roll:

Really? hmm....

medboyle wrote:

PhilR: Thanks for looking in. I totally agree, my problem was also that i didnt feel confident with any of the company's i went to. In an ideal world i would have windows but this is a compromise i am willing to make.

To be honest though, in the last 2 years of recording without a direct line of sight to the live room, nobody has ever really wished for one. Many people actually feel more comfortable without a window, as they don't have to suffer their bandmates pointing and laughing. :)

You miss the old walking down the imaginary stairs trick though don't you :D