HELP, Studio renovation of a renovation,,, long post

Hello, My name is Dave, and i'm new to the forum and i must say over the last couple of days scouring the posts and doing some sponge like soaking up of really cool information here and refreshing some things i already learned,,,God i love this place :) I WISH,,,the previous owner of my home had known about this place when he started the studio project here that i now get to figure out how to finish. First a little about me and this situation. I am orig. from Chicago, and moved to Alabama a few years ago to be close to my aging parents to help them out where and however i can. When i got here and started looking for a place, in passing i had mentioned to the real estate agent that i was a musician, and she said "hmmm, i might have something you might like to see" and that was very close to the area that i was looking for. So we get there and there is this house on 2 ac. of land, woods on all sides and a 24X50 out building that the owner had started building a recording studio in ;-) and i thought "REALLY?" so i check out the place and its in my price range so long story short, i bought the place and all the const. contents left in the studio building (i actually got it for 5,000 less than asking price cause the seller was in a hurry) and figured one day when I save up some money and i start to have some time on my hands i'll get around to finishing what the previous owner started, and have a kickin little place,,,,,that was 5 years ago,,now i almost have the place paid off and have been jonesing to do something with the place now that i have a little more time on my hands than i did in the past, a new band, and the fact that after the last band where we had all the gear at another members place I now have not only my recording gear at the house but all my other gear as well and i'm sure the wife would love to have some of the house back that don't have music gear all over in it and me not playing through my 2 stacks :-) I am a Drywall contractor/finisher, and have been in the trade most of my adult life so building things is nothing new to me. Up until now the building has been used for storage and i have also used it to make all kinds of side projects(I even made a desk for my mixer modeled after an omnirax desk not that long ago that came out great, and i'll make a diffrent post with pix for anyone thats interested) it is a bit of a mess , but i have been cleaning it out as i get ready to undertake this adventure. As for buget, i'll have to do it little at a time, but i'm looking at 5 or $6,000 in the end i guess. I have the drawing he started with, but what has been laid out is slightly diffent to what is on the drawing, (ie. the angle of some walls were changed to allow for a bigger room on one side than a longer hallway on the other.) His plan was to build the control room onto the building as to leave the great room open to alow a whole band to have a comfortable room for them all to fit in and jam, I think I would like to keep this idea given the unmolested open area is roughly 23' X 25 (give or take because of the angled wall plate) , and would be plenty of room for a 5 man band, and i could build the C.R. as a seperate entity instead of "making due with what is left over" so to speak, but am open for any and all sugestions and would love if i could get some diffrent takes and ideas for this project. I'll do my best to get all the measurments for what is already here and will try to do a sketchup in the next couple of days( I'm a noob with this program, so it might take a few). I understand why he did some of what he was trying to do with what he has laid out,and from the few times i talked to him when i bought the place,( non parallel walls, seperate shells for the rooms, etc) but question some other things now that I'm interested in doing something with it, and have been reading up on the subject. I've taken some pics of the place and would like some advice on what i could do to salvage what is here and /or what i need to do to make it right. What i do know off hand, are a few measurements and what his original plans were,,so here we go First off, their will be no bathroom, where i'm at in the country every thing goes to the septic tank, there are no sewers. my septic tank is behind the house and roughly 150/200 feet away from this building and thats a looooong way for the tube to go ya know :) . In the future i will probably have one , but it will have to be an add on and the septic system will probably run about 2 grand or better so i'll deal with that later as i can just add on where the entry door is now and put it there or something. Till then its back to the house for the ladies, out to the trees for the men :lol: The outside perimeter measures 24'X50' (2x4 framed on concrete slab) From the floor to the bottom of the roofs ridge beam is 147" (12'3") From the floor to the ceiling joists that are still in there is 103" (8'7") ( great room , above the hallway , and above the chase opposite the hallway) The center angled plate is at roughly at 23' on one end and 25' on the other, from the end of the building. this wall was to go to the roof as part of the load bearing system he had going on. the plan for the great room was to build a 1' chase on both sides(one side stoping at the center bearing wall at the hallway, the other continuing with the chase that is opposite the hallway ) so he could cut out the existing ceiling joists and from this chase wall vault up to an inside peak of 10" then then tie the new joists back into the roof to support the load. The inside hight of the one room thats there is 10' down to (8'3" if IIRC?) All the door openings are 36" The little entry room at the door had no other pourpose than entry/air lock. The outside walls that are covered with drywall, are insulated and the drywall (although in pieces :roll: ) is 3 boards thick of 1/2 His plans He said he was going to do all the rooms top height at 10' down to diffrent hights and was going to run the power high(standard) and the audio low through PVC pipe channeled to each room under the floor he was to build in the room far opposite the hallway and come out right into the other 2 rooms respectively, with the hallway audio being feed from the chase on that side of the building. There was to be a "lean to" room built off of the hallway side of the building which would house the ductwork for the HVAC that would come through the wall behind the chase and go up and over the ceilings to their respective rooms. The shop doors were to be removed and framed up with a window for the control room and a door leading to a hallway connecting these rooms to the C.R. The hallway in the end was to have pannels on the wall that were reflective on one side and absorbative on the other so they could be flipped as needed and was to have the same type of pannel at the end of the hallway that would be hung from a rail on the ceiling (like a closet door track) to change the length of the hallway. He was also going to build some sort of trapping in the great room (red area on the orig. drawing) of which he really didnt go into detail about what his grand plan was for this that i remember,, as all of this is from memory. Sorry for such a long post and all these and the next pics. but i figured i'd give all the info i have or could think of for now, if the admins. need to delete them i undstand and can send them to any who ask, and i guess some of questions i have (which would be in the thousands) would be,, Is this monstrosity salvageable into something workable at the least great at the best? Do i leave the room thats built and go with what he has? If the room thats there is to be left, should i raise the low slope up to 10' also and hang a vaulted cloud of some sort to maximize the use of the space? When i get to the great room should i go with his vault plan? Should I post up to support the roof, tear it all thats there down and redo the whole section? I could go on but i'll wait to here some comments from those that are WAY more learnerd than I. Any and all suggestions or help of any kind will be considered and would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Dave.

few more pics.

sorry one more.

Aloha and welcome to the forum! Wow, wish I had that kind of room to work with. :wink: There's a lot of info to process, but we're looking it over so hang in there and we'll post as soon as possible. In the meantime, here are a few links that may prove helpful in the near future, especially Rod's book. Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros (Paperback) by Rod Gervais http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5670 Reference Area – Useful Links – Steve Knightfly http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2125 SAE Institute Reference Material Center – John Sayers http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html DIY Wall Units – John Sayers http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Aloha 8)

dude you have a great space but i think the guys plan will so limit you in everyway..... i would think about smashing out a few walls of framing for sure.... if your gonna do it do it right...the cieling seem fine though.... just my 2 dollars G

Hello, and thanks for the welcome guys :D I should have some time this weekend to do a little measuring of whats there and try to get that up to date and posted for you. kendale Thank you for your time sir, and anyone else who might be "think tanking" my little monstrosety here :roll: I do greatly apreciate it and i have been pouring over those links of which i had actually looked at before and the fact that you mentioned the "DIY Wall Units" which is the page that i was linked to which brought me here about a month ago while i was poking around net and started to get the building bug again. Right after the tax thing is over (this year the tax man is taking instead of giving :evil: ) I'm gonna pick up Rod's book to add to my library,looks like a good book and has had alot of praise here. I also have a couple others here,,, somewhere,,,,,, that i bought a couple of years ago( i'm a pack rat :lol:) i did find my copy of "The Master Handbook Of Acoustics 3rd. ed. " last night though. Govinda thanks for the comp. on the space , i hope it turns into something really cool. I would have no qualms about dismantleing the room thats there, salvageing the wood, and useing the space better,(unless someone has any ideas that would make it usefull) cause for one thing I dont like how he built the room anyway, I would have at least bought 10' lumber in the first place instead of scabing it all together. If the room stays i think one of my first actions will be to stud it right. The Bearing wall thats there to take the place of the ceiling joists on the other hand i guess will have to stay, as will the hallway i suppose,, unless someone has and idea for that area that will still alow for the roof to be suported in some way. I've been digging around a couple of pages back on each forum at night, and i must say some of you have some VERY cool rooms, and some of them in some pretty tight spaces too, which gives me some hope to a cool build and kinda re-thinking the exterior CR also,,,hmmmmm :roll: :lol: Anyway, thanks for the welcome and checking it out guys. Dave

if neighbors and isolation aren't a problem - leave the vaulted ceiling. if its feasible to dissemble the framing (no sense wasting the wood...) you could probably come up with a better design for the space with a nice big open live room a proper CR along with some isolation booths and probably a space left for a lounge and (later) a bathroom.

Hello, I was able to get the existing stuff measured out today. Everything is in "inches" and, sorry for the "no" lines on the measurements,,it got sloppy trying to put them in so i just put the measurements on their respective walls. these measurements are the inside area from plate to plate.

Hello again :) Glenn thanks for taking the time and looking at my monster :) the looks kinda cool, but the problem i would have doing something like that is the the hallway wall and the center plate on the other side of the building are now bearing walls that support the roof,since he cut the ceiling joists out, which would put them about where i have drawn them in on your pic. I'm not sure the best way to utilize the space thats there between the 2 bearing walls now, cause of the space limitations, the best i think i could do (if i absolutly had to) is straiten the angled bearing wall which would give me roughly 12' of space in between the two to build in.

have you considered putting ceiling joists back in? depending on how they were removed, the building inspection might reveal you need them back in. or you might be able to put the 2 load bearing walls in as you described. this way you can get the control room wide enough and facing the live room plus take advantage of the ceiling space and it would be symmetrical...

Hello, Glenn :) I'll tell ya bro,saying the hell with it, and putting the ceiling joists back in and tearing out everything he had done had crossed my mind so many times it aint even funny anymore, and in the end will be my last resort i suppose, but i keep thinking that loosing the height would be such a waste, if it could be utilized somehow. As i have been reading and reading, trying to get some ideas about how to salvage this space and come up with the best way to try to lay out something that would be workable before i give up and start from scratch, and have seen some stuff that looks do-able ,,but on the other side, and i would have be forced to deal with an 8.5' ceiling height, unless i did something creative framing wise, like one idea was to take the section midways under the half with the ceiling joists which are on 24"centers, take 7 out,and frame up 2 bearing walls on both sides all the way to the roof which would give me a hole of 14 X 23.5 so i could put the control room in sideways. Although i could frame that in in less than a days time, that would require screwing around with that side when i have a big hole now that maybe just maybe there is hope for ,,,,,,then as i'm looking through the posts today....LIKE A BRICK it hits me when i come across the Gold Coast Thread. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6602 As i sat there looking at the design John put up, the brick hits me that if that picture was mirrored, i'll be darned, that with just a mod or two that is close to what this side building has goin on now . in the GC thread the given space was for 7.20m w x 5.29m L which comes to 23.62'w x 17.35' l and i have that space i belive given how the picture looks. The only thing majorly diffrent would be that i dont have a toilet in that spot,but my breaker box is there, so i dont mind having a lttle room there just like that. I am not doing any 5.1 mixing right now(but who knows what the futre holds) so i would need a window where the center speaker is, unless it can be mounted above the window or something. If I'm not doing surround,,should the rear of the room be trapped any diffrent somehow? or would something like this still be fine for stereo mixing and just be ready for a surround upgrade later? John If you happen to read this and dont mind commenting,,, given the criteria you had to plot this out the first time, would this be a do-able thing , given my space if i tear out the room that is there, and make the control room out of what he had laid out for the 2 iso rooms? I measured out from the back wall, and at 17' I'll only have roughly 9.5" after 2 boards of 5/8 drywall on R.C. on both sides at the front wall, is this going to be too small for the area you have laid out? Man this gives me some hope for the monster here. I greatly appreciate all comments and suggestions and thank you for your time in advance. Dave

if that middle wall isn't load bearing then it would seem to be a fit!

Sup? :) Well ,,, after some serious thoughts about what i should do to the place i have decided to just tear down all that he had done, salvage what wood I can, and start fresh by implementing the Scissor joist retrofit that was done in the Oasis studio thread,, as that seems to fit the bill as a good starting point for my project as my building is similar to the Oasis building in that the ceiling will have to be constructed the same. It apears by the look of the Drywall, that the Oasis building is about 28 feet wide and 12 feet to the peak on the inside and at least ,, by the picture (i count 9 boards across) 36 ft long, but i would wager its more like 40 to 50+ ft. John,, if you read this and dont mind,,, what were the inside dim. of the Oasis building? and givin the pictures of what i'm dealing with here would this be the best way to just start fresh? cause i would love to build something along the lines of Oasis , although i could do without the bathroom , as i'll have to build it on later, but i love the control room , drum room, and live room, and could move the vocal booth somewhere else to save space for a longer C.R. My building (from the outside is only 24 X 50 ft. with a 12 ft peak to the bottom of the ridge beam) when i get the joists reframed and the layer of drywall up my peak hight is only going to be 10 ft,,,10.5 at the very most,,and i'm gonna confine the floorplan to 22 X 48 mainly so i will know exactly what i have to work with and it will give me about 9 in. to the outer shell all the way around. If anyone has any thoughts or comments before i break out the saw and hammer and start demo-ing ,,,,,feel free :) thanks Dave

Dave, All I have to say is Holy Crap dude That took guts but I feel you did the right thing. Now it will be all yours and the correct way of doing it Have a few extra 2x4s??????? Good luck and I will watch on pins and needles Tom

i think taking it down and redoing the ceiling is a good idea. it will give you the most flexibility in your design and you can have a clean slate to make sure it wall comes together without (too much) patching of things...