Small room design needed.

Hi all this is a great forum thanks to all who contribute. I have a small room 3.5m wide 2.97m high 3.9m deep. Plaster walls, wooden floors in a brick shell. I want to record voice, VO and accoustic instruments and mix music, TV doumentary and DVD projects (not 5.1) in here. I wish to soffit my monitors ATC SCM 20's and install my gear in a soundproof cupboard. I work at low volumes but improved isolation would be a bonus for recording. Highest priority is to get the room sounding right. The instal needs to be removeable, I cannot change the structure or attatch to walls. I am at the planning stage. I have created rockwool panels and bass absorbers which I have been playing around with before I do my full construction. This has improved the room but created other problems ie a low mid build up and a bass null in center of room. I have seen the small room designs and would like to build on these. Total budget AUD$1500 to $2000 Many thanks Phil

Aloha and welcome to the forum, Any chance you could post your skp file? In the meantime, perhaps these might be interesting - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ght=#15598 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4091 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ht=kendale Aloha 8)

Hey Kendale Here is the original skp Thanks Phil

Here is what I have designed so far but I feel it can be vastly improved upon. Cheers Phil

hey, Wouldn't you prefer to have your work station facing the speakers? You'll either get a sore neck or go deaf in your left ear first! Also do you require storage? There's alot of doors and hidy holes. Other than that it's getting there, just check your angles. ie soffits, walls and room ratios.

[quote="lilith_envy"]hey, Wouldn't you prefer to have your work station facing the speakers? Yes you are right but I am video editing and sound editing with 4 screens and run a business from this room. The window cavity is filled with removable baffles so I can still have the connection with the outside world when I'm not recording. I only work at low level. I am not mixing rock but acoustic field recordings. If I want to crank it up I face the speakers. Concernned about reflections off monitors and desk. I don't think this will work for above reasons. I'll look at it again. Cheers Phil

you could twist the room, mount the soffit to form a 90 degree angle and thus have your window available (without things in front of them) and face your speakers... you could just put a drape over the window and the opposite wall to cut reflections. if noise is an issue, use the window blockers you described. since you have a nice high room, you can put some absorbers around the top wall-ceiling corner as well and they will be out of the way. since you can't modify the walls, build the soffits and treatments in sections so you can move it in and out as needed.

Wow Thankyou Glen That looks very neat and cool. Talk about wrap around sound. The mix position where you have it is such a null at the moment due to the cubic shape of the room. Would this design overcome that? Would I need to do bass traps on the back wall? Many thanks again Phil

just an idea more than a concrete design. since the room is nearly square you're going to have a lot of challenges in shaping it. and since 2 of the walls are "light" (bass transparent if it were) and 2 walls heavy (brick) you will likely encounter some unevenness there. I'll try to post another drawing tonight which may be better suited.

Hi Glenn Thanks for the ideas so far. I have looked into changing the orientation so that I would be facing the window and the speakers. I've done some testing and its not such a big deal for me to put the window baffles in and out but it would involve stretching and leanning over my workspace to do it. Cheers Phil

maybe this then..

gullfo wrote:

maybe this then..

yes that's great Glenn Where to from here? I guess I need to work out how to make it modular. Cheers Phil

check out Kendale's construction post... one thought I had one module "soffit" was make them as upper and lower sections and the side-wall sections as separate as well.

gullfo wrote:

check out Kendale's construction post... one thought I had one module "soffit" was make them as upper and lower sections and the side-wall sections as separate as well.

Yes good idea. I also am working on the idea of a frame that this can all hang from. I would also be able to hang the cloud from it Yeh I read Kendales a while back- he used sheets of wood. I was thinking more of the framing idea. How to make a frame modular is going to be a bit tricky. Maybe even too difficult for my skills Cheers Phil

maybe think along the lines of kitchen cabinets... have the lower unit containing the hangers and the upper unit having the speaker box. the side walls can be 2 units as well with the upper unit holding the support for additional hangers behind the slats. maybe something like this: main thing would be to add some additional framing on the large panels to reduce any resonance. also cut the speaker opening to fit your brand of speaker.

Hi Glenn Doing all this research has wetted my apetite to consider designning a booth in this room. How would you approach putting a booth in? Any ideas? Cheers

i think the room is too small to put in a booth but if you needed something to control some space around a vocal mic, there are some examples of folding panels which would work - check this site and google.

Hi Glenn I agree its a small space but that's what I have. I have done the controlling space already and it works well with no external noise. I have thought about controlling external noise more but this would be a lot of work and cost. The big problem with extrnal noise is that it breaks work flow. It doesn't happen all the time but this is a great candidate for Murphies law. I want the booth for VO work mainly and vocals. It wouldn't be the smallest booth I've been in. I've got 3m ceiling height. The mixing space would be cut dramatically though. This is what I'm thinking. Cheers

since you have the room height this is probably a good tradeoff. on the narrow end i'd build in some slat resonators and also put of reversible treatments to you can alter how live or dead the room is. overhead put up a slat resonator and a cloud over the mic position.

Hi all I've been a bit busy and haven't been able to follw this up. I will proceed with the one room design as one good room is worth more than 2 not so good rooms, but I have some questions ANGLE 60 or 90 pros and cons? I am leanning towards 90 as it would get my deepish speakers further onto the corners so I can save some room. SOFFIT CONFUSION- The ATC monitors are unbelievably solid and have great bass response, so do I need the massed box? Does the massed box touch the front bezel? It looks like it most designs. Do you need to top cap? Is the speaker section and bass trap section below supposed to be seperated except for venting? Is this better than having one big chamber? Can I seal cabinets to the wall without back or should I just back them as per diagram? SIDE UNITS- Will I need to seal them to the walls to get them to work properly or should I just put a back on them and forget about a possible gap to the wall? I've read too many posts and I'm loosuing clarity. Thanks for your help Cheers

razor wrote:

SIDE UNITS- Will I need to seal them to the walls to get them to work properly or should I just put a back on them and forget about a possible gap to the wall?

Construction is similar to the corner units where the unit must be air sealed to achieve the desired effect The box created must be completely sealed to be airtight. The only access to the outer air is via the gaps between the slats. OK that is clear. I will need to airtight seal all units. Next

razor wrote:

SOFFIT CONFUSION- The ATC monitors are unbelievably solid and have great bass response, so do I need the massed box? Does the massed box touch the front bezel? It looks like it most designs. Do you need to top cap? Is the speaker section and bass trap section below supposed to be seperated except for venting? Is this better than having one big chamber?

OK i found this to answer these questions. knightfly---"Airtight isn't necessary - the main thing is that you don't have gaps in the plane of the front baffle, either the part that's the face of your speaker or the baffle EXTENSION that is the face of the soffit. These two planes need to be flush with each other, but you can have up to about 1/2" between the speaker box and the soffit construction - but, once the speakers are in place you should fill any gaps with insulation, keeping it even with the face of the speaker and the face of the soffit. Using insulation just helps you keep from coupling the baffle extension (the face of the soffit) to the speaker box, so that the soffit doesn't become a passive radiator for the speaker. The end result should be that you have only a narrow gap around the speaker box, and that the front face of the speaker box is even with the front face of the soffit... " If we are trying NOT to create a passive radiator from the soffit baffle extension then I would imagine it would be important to isolate the massed box around the speaker from the soffit baffle extension, so why use the box at all? Surely it will couple as it is in such close promoximity to the speaker, and cause the extension to resonate? I am just splitting hairs here? Apologies this probaly belongs on the construction forum but it will impact my design. Cheers

[quote="razor"] Surely it will couple as it is in such close promoximity to the speaker, and cause the extension to resonate? I am just splitting hairs here? /quote] Barefoot said- " The "inner framing" can be your existing wall or corner or whatever. Yes, the soffit face is still coupled to the speaker via the wall. But it's a very indirect coupling. A more roundabout coupling path means less vibration transmission. " Thanks I've got it clear now I was confused due to the modular designs showing an internal box and support system. I guess these designs are for practical purposes and seem to be achieving good results. Many thanks Cheers