Ready to start construction. Any last minute advise?

Aaron - 5:1 is a different geometry in the front. You cant just stick a speaker between the stereo ones as all speakers have to be the same distance from the listener. sorry I'm still offline at the internet cafe so I can't draw it for you. cheers john

John, that's why I linked to Dave's thread, there's a sort of diagram and some verbiage there... Steve

What if the speakers are not soffit mounted? I have the JBL LSR28P monitors. I was looking at the other site that had pictures of your finished/under construction studios, and had noticed that Sjoko's Studio was designed w/ these monitors. Would it be best to use these speakers as near fields on stands, or soffit mount them? How does he like those monitors being soffit mounted? I was reading the thread that you gave me Steve. I think I opened a can of worms. :? By the way, I was speaking to a contractor at a party over the weekend, and he was mentioning some different methods of isolation with walls. They have built several sound isolation rooms (practice rooms, etc.). One of the things he was talking about was putting 2 layers of 40lb felt (I believe he said roofing felt) and overlap by at least half way. Staple/tack them between the 2 layers of drywall. Any validity to this?

OK, here we go. Finally got the film back and digital pix. I've saved them a lot smaller than the original to save bandwidth. Here we go...

OK, here we go. Finally got the film back and digital pix. I've saved them a lot smaller than the original to save bandwidth. Here we go...

OK, here we go. Finally got the film back and digital pix. I've saved them a lot smaller than the original to save bandwidth. Here we go...

Here's one w/ the HVAC, plumbing, new sub panel for studio, W/D, & edge of bay window

Where the control room will be...

John, I would like to lay out the control room for the ability to do 5.1 in the near future. After several drawings, and putting things more to scale, it looks like the only logical way to lay out the control is with the front being towards the solid block wall (opposite the bay window). What do I need to take into consideration for angles, etc for this? Thanks, Aaron

Hey Aaron, Sounds like you are going through a similar thinking process that I went through a few months back on 5.1 etc.-- i.e. wanting an "everything control room." Having not enough room for a true surround capable control room, I've come to a few conclusions on my own about 5.1 and control rooms. I'd be interested to listen to what others think. <BTW, after finishing most of my soffits/walls this last weekend, all I can say is that -- WOW -- John is right -- imaging is superior, low-end response is tight and overall they sound amazing! Thanks for being an advocate of this method and opening up some eyes here John. :D Also, Barefoot's stand/soffit design Rocks!> As for 5.1, this is my plan: first, finish my stereo control room, then build a separate home theatre --which I need to do anyhow for architectural reasons on the 100 yr old house I am renovating. I would then create a movable 5.1-mixing/mastering workstation usable within the surround home theatre system. My reasoning: If you buy FIVE speakers plus a SUB for surround mixing, it seems a waste to use them only within a control room, especially if it's in your home. What I concluded: rather than try to cram 5.1 into a smaller control room, why not incorporate it into a separate mastering/surround/home theatre/live performance -- i.e. multi-function room? Probably most effects and editing work can be accomplished within my stereo control room, prior to surround mixing. Once you edit/ sub-mix etc. --you transfer to a DAW and mix form the box in the home theatre. Most of the critical editing and sound work is already complete. The surround mix is simply for placement, ambience and LFM, which would not require allot of outboard, if any -- particularly at the rate computers are improving for manipulating sound --once it's already in the digital realm. Surround Control Room design is obviously still in its early stages. I think one could argue that a critical stereo/mono monitoring setup is still an effective tool to have at one’s disposal. Perhaps phantom centre, mono-compatibility and phase anomalies are best heard in a Stereo control room? Perhaps an accurate stereo control room is still an important tool prior to mixing in surround? Part of the question also becomes what do you loose from your stereo tool picture, if you design for surround? Does a more absorptive front end reduce stereo imaging/phantom center? To my ears, imaging improved this weekend as I put up the pine boards over the 703/slot absorbers in the front of my CR. Additionally, while soffits are arguably a true benefit for critical listening, good tracking & stereo mixing, perhaps surround mixing is best and most easily implemented with freestanding speakers -- in a reasonably neutral room? Obviously the construction issues become simpler. I personally think soffits are in invaluable tool, like a microscope, but perhaps a larger picture has its place as well -- particularly in mastering and surround mixing. (BTW, this made for a very interesting debate that John hosted over on prosoundweb, if I recall. Check that out. I recently updated my computer and lost all my links. Maybe someone can post the link. lol: ) ) Well that is part of my reasoning concerning 5.1 and control rooms, but it's also more than theory; I’ve seen/witnessed/heard a less rigorous approach to a surround control room that appeared to work -- very well indeed -- right in your backyard, Aaron --- at Mwagner’s studio. Perhaps you can jump over to gearslutz and look up MWagener and introduce yourself. A real gentleman, respected by many for his recordings -- he was nice enough to host a get together I attended awhile back. He is doing 5.1 surround mixing in a room that has no more acoustic treatment than a drop acoustic tile ceiling; not particularly centered in the room; using Adams monitors; the room is reasonably spacious, and it sounds really nice. I think the Adams have something to due with the lack of serious acoustic treatment. I think 5.1 is interesting and worthy of debate for effective implementation and practical design. Best, Dave

Thanks Dave, I've been debating the whole issue of 5.1. I'm probably mostly going to do just 2 mix stuff, but I'm also getting a lot of feedback from people to definately consider the option. Especially since I'm in the raw construction stages. Even though it may be a year or two before I can budget for 5.1, I can still lay out the room to prep for 5.1 when the time comes. This way I can go ahead and build the soffits, run electrical and conduits for wire etc, without having to go back and reconstruct my room again. (don't want to do that). The other reason for turning the control room around and having the full wall, is it allows me the opportunity to put a monitor for editing, etc. Eventually when budget allows, I'll put up one of those 42", 50" or larger plasma displays since they can be used for video or computer now days. When this happens, my control room will be the home theater. Another advantage of having the control room this way, is that I don't have to worry about clients being on the back side of the console with all the wiring, etc. I'll bet those Adams sound good. Haven't had the pleasure of listening to them yet. Then again, I've already invested enough in these JBL LSR's. Don't need any new temptations. I'm trying to find a new console as it is. Aaron

By the way, I couldn't stand it anymore. It was a rainy day, and I just had to put up a wall. So I started some construction this weekend. :) Didn't do too much, but put up a short wall by the hvac and new electrical panel. Started to frame the outer wall between the control room area and the studio area. And just for fun, I stood up a bunch of studs to get an idea of the room where the walls will be...and yikes! Where did all my space go? It's amazing how small the room gets once the framing starts to go up. Even smaller once the drywall is on. Anyway, I'm getting excited now on starting this thing. Just can't get to anxious, otherwise I'll probably screw something up. Speaking of which, just remembered a question to ask on my studio construction thread. Aaron

OK, I think I've come up with a plan on the control room area. Drawing is to scale, just doesn't have all the numbers on it...

Unless you plan on incorporating three channels of sub-millisecond accurate delay lines for your center and rear surround speakers, you need to re-draw for identical sound path length from each speaker. For each 1.13 foot difference in path, you would need 1.0 milliseconds of delay, so that sound from all 5 speakers reaches the mix position simultaneously. Some higher end surround recievers offer this delay compensation built in, if you're going that route - other, more professional manufacturers also offer delay compensation in surround controllers. Still, the cleanest way is to have all sound paths the same length, within an inch or less (closer for the front speakers, or stereo shifts will occur) Also, you'll probably want to splay the inner glasses on both sides (continue the wall angle) to avoid flutter. Getting closer though... Steve

$*%#! I kind of figured they all needed the same distance. Not much I can do in this room then. I guess I'll scrap it. Back to the 2 mix designs. :( Oh wait, I can't even do that. My second go around on the free trial expires in a few hours. :x

OK, I'll give the drawing one more try here for 5.1 before my Smartdraw program expires... Well, then again maybe not...apparently I've reached my limit on filesize for all attachments. Here's the message I get... Sorry, but the maximum filesize for all Attachments is reached. Please contact the Board Administrator if you have questions. Do I need to delete some pix, make a donation? What can I do? Thanks. Aaron

Not sure, I haven't seen that one yet - probably because I've not posted many pix, only drawings - you might try editing some back posts and deleting a couple of pix just to see, but John may have other ways... Steve

OK, I've edited the pix above. Let's see if this works...

OK, now you have distances right but your surrounds aren't angled like the "big boys" are doing it - maybe this will help... Steve Forgot to mention that surrounds are usually placed at 110 degrees away from front center. The drawing is unlabeled but correctly drawn. If you resize this and paste it into your drawing, you can then edit walls to match. (Or, you could just forget surround and stick to Stereo, for a simpler life... :=)

So are you saying I'm SOL on the 5.1? OK, back to the 2 mix plan. How about this...?

Not necessarily - you can first, pay Smartdraw so you can keep drawing, and second, overlay my sketch (resized as I just crudely did for this example) and re-think your walls and entries. Or, you could set the room up just for Stereo, build some portable absorbers to hang when mixing surround, and stay with nearfields and a Sub for surround. You could, for the rears, put locator marks on the floor so you can place them only when you're doing surround, and get them out of the way otherwise. Anyway, check out my overlay, it's not all that far away... Steve

You can have some variance in the rear speakers - here's the accepted standard. cheers john

Basically a repost of what you just did. Let me work on it some...

OK, here's an update. Basically pasted the template in, and drew the framing around it to suit. I've edited this post and updated the drawing again.

Looking good Aaron - now, when you get into actual DETAIL drawings for each section of wall, remember that the goal for isolation between any two areas is two, and ONLY two, centers of mass (leaves) separated by one, and ONLY one, air space (insulation included) - this is true whether that air space is 3" or 3 YARDS - I don't know how much surround work you intend, but that could influence treatment options for you - Some of the guys that are pioneering this area (Tom Holman, Bobby Owsinski, etc) recommend absorption wherever a speaker is pointing at (replacing any ambience digitally), which would mean absorbed front surfaces as well as rear - RFZ for stereo, however, means properly angled but LIVE surfaces at the front, with absorption at the rear unless there is more than about 12 feet between the mix position and the rear wall. As I've mentioned before, in my next facility I intend to look into building cavities into these surfaces which will take reversible "inserts", most likely built as panel absorbers on one side and broadband absorbers on the other, so I can "turn the room inside out" for Surround or Stereo. If you think the majority of your work will be Stereo, you might rather just build some movable absorber panels, maybe doing rails for them to hang on, and only put them up when Surround is the plan for the day - you could adapt this mounting method as one option - I posted this some time back, but don't remember where... Steve OK, guess I'll have to post the drawing later when Peter gets me some more room, apparently I've "hit the wall" for now...