Looking at a potential studio space, what to watch out for?

Hi Guys, Many of you already know me and my attempts to build a studio (fraught with issues) and on expert advice from a lot of you I've had many doors close, only to open others. I'm at a pivotal point in my life where I have to make personal decisions based on my future and families well being and have decided to go the studio route alone without a partner (unlike before), daunting as it may seem, it is also liberating and scary as all heck! It has allowed me time to think about what I want to get out of the studio, where I'm headed and what the needs would be. Almost 90% of the Studio work I've done over the last year has been out of my modest spare bedroom patched together as a workable space but I'm ready to move up and out and build a custom facility that will allow me to have more space to compose and record music, with a booth big enough for a duo or trio of acoustic players and primarily focused on basic post production work (Voice over for TV/Radio, Multimedia etc). With all this in mind and empowered by the knowledge gained here and through Rod's book I've been looking for a suitable space and think I may have found it! The space is situated in a renovated warehouse complex that has been turned into office space for alot of creative industries from PR and Marketing firms to design firms/agencies along with Casting crews and Multimedia services, but no Audio edit suite, so that could bring in potential work. The space I'm looking at it roughly 45-50m2 situated on the top floor of a 3 story building built on a solid cast concrete slab with solid brick walls all round 290mm thick, none of that big open plan office space with paper thin dry wall partitions! Here is the basic plan/layout of the spaces (all sizes are in milimeters) Being on the top floor and on the end of the building there is no one on the one side of me, the other has a long passage way/atrium, witha 3 floor drop, so only folks below me and the sky/roof above me. Here are some exterior shots, the first shot from ground level, the 2nd from outside the window. The roof is a flat fiberglass roof from what I can gather it is suspended on wooden cross beams, and stuffed in insulation as see from these pics. It has and AC system installed with what looks like a fresh air system with what looks like a a through the wall system but installed in the roof as seen here I'm not entirely sure how it is pieced together and need to get hold of the guys who installed it and see how it works. I'm not TOO worried as a benefit of having roof access and is that should I need to install a new fresh air and mini spilt I could easily mount it and not have to run long lengths of ducting, but first prize would be to utilize the existing system if possible. One bonus is that the space is plumbed with both outlet pipes for sinks etc as well as having what we call a hydroboil, instant hot water, not a typical hot water cylinder/geyser set-up as there is an existing kitchenette as seen on the plans and in these photo's. In the studio design I'd like to remove the kitchenette as it stands now, but still have a small sink and the hydroboil for coffee/tea washing cups etc, incorporating it into the layout, but on a much smaller scale. One advantage, is that it has nice natural light as indicated on the plan and in these photos I'd like to keep them and just build a 2nd window inside of the studio to have access to that light. Lastly here is a pic of the entrance in relation to the plans. BEFORE I even get to the design phase I'm just wanting a second opinion on the structural design of the space and if you think it is studio material? It is is a lot better than most spaces I've looked at and I see the following as PRO's 1. Being at Roof height makes it easy to gain roof top access for HVAC if needed and no neighbors to worry about above me or transmission from them. 2. Having brick walls and not having a neighbors adjacent to the space 3. A quality HVAC system installed that may be able to be utilized 4. Plumbing for Hot Water and Drainage Are there any glaring issues that I'm missing why this space wouldn't be suitable for achieving what i'm setting out to achieve as described above? Thanks for your time and thank you in advance for you comments Cheers Matt

Hi Matt, Great post with great pictures. 8) Neat location. :) The thing that stands out to me is the fact that it's not on the ground floor. :roll: That may or may not be a major issue -- that would depend on how much isolation you'll need. You wrote that you need something "that will allow [you] to record music, with a booth big enough for a duo or trio of acoustic players and primarily focused on basic post production work (Voice over for TV/Radio, Multimedia etc)." I don't see "acoustic drums" mentioned specifically, so hopefully that's not on your list of things you hope to do. If so, then you need major isolation. I'm also not clear what you mean by this: ". . . situated on the top floor of a 3 story building built on a solid cast concrete slab . . ." Does that mean the third story floor is a solid cast concrete slab? Or are you saying the building itself was built slab-on-grade? (Or both?) Before you get too far into engineering how you'd build your inner leaf walls, and possibly floating your rooms, you need to know how much weight the floor will support. You'll definitely want to study "Cyeazel's project studio...... planning and preparing" thread as an example of a studio design that is going on a non- ground floor, complete with structural engineering reports that advise how much weight his existing floor can safely hold. Even if you won't be very noisy, you may need to keep other noise out. What are the surroundings? Who or what is going to be occupying the space below you? A print shop? A childrens' day care center? A sign shop? A machine room? What noise sources are in the neighborhood? It being a retrofitted warehouse, and probably in a commercial or industrial district, are there any train tracks in the area? An airport? A freeway with rumbling 18-wheeler trucks? Downtown streets with honking taxi cabs? It may not seem that noisy when you're just walking around, so having a handheld sound level meter can give a clue what you're dealing with in terms of ambient noise. Compare that with your home neighborhood to see what deficit you're facing. Another thing to think about: is there any chance that the roof would be made accessible to people not specifically working on HVAC equipment up there? Is there any risk of guests or other tenants wandering around up there for smoke breaks, taking in the view, or causing mischief? Imagine building a studio that's practically bulletproof as far as isolation goes, only to have a rude awakening of having footfall noise from the roof rendering the space useless and building management refusing to secure the roof area... :roll: Moving out of the bedroom is an exciting prospect... Just make sure that the environmental noise issues in the vicinity of the place you plan to build will accommodate your needs and you take into account any contingencies. I imagine the terms of your commercial lease will be rather strict and long, so make sure you can live with it on all levels before you commit. More comments may follow, depending on your response. --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi Keith! Thanks for the kind words and insight. I'll try answer as clearly as I can RE the questions posed.

You wrote that you need something "that will allow [you] to record music, with a booth big enough for a duo or trio of acoustic players and primarily focused on basic post production work (Voice over for TV/Radio, Multimedia etc)." I don't see "acoustic drums" mentioned specifically, so hopefully that's not on your list of things you hope to do. If so, then you need major isolation.

Yes, I guess the acoustic players was a tad vague, I meant a trio guitarists, or a small bluegrass band etc ;-) I don't plan on recording drums as I plan to have a smaller booth and larger more spacious control room and I don't often record live drums and it is cheaper/easier to rent a bigger commercial facility and track there when I do need to.

I'm also not clear what you mean by this: ". . . situated on the top floor of a 3 story building built on a solid cast concrete slab . . ." Does that mean the third story floor is a solid cast concrete slab? Or are you saying the building itself was built slab-on-grade? (Or both?) Before you get too far into engineering how you'd build your inner leaf walls, and possibly floating your rooms, you need to know how much weight the floor will support. You'll definitely want to study "Cyeazel's project studio...... planning and preparing" thread as an example of a studio design that is going on a non- ground floor, complete with structural engineering reports that advise how much weight his existing floor can safely hold.

Yes, the 3rd floor is a reinforced concrete slab, you can see the grey concrete between the 2 floors from the out in this pic, if you look between the 3rd floor and 2nd floor windows: But the building itself to my knowledge is also built on concrete slab, I will look into the weight/support issue, it has been raised with the owners of the building and they are trying to get me an answer ASAP. Thanks the link to Cyeazel's, Studio I will devour the text now!

Even if you won't be very noisy, you may need to keep other noise out. What are the surroundings? Who or what is going to be occupying the space below you? A print shop? A childrens' day care center? A sign shop? A machine room? What noise sources are in the neighborhood? It being a retrofitted warehouse, and probably in a commercial or industrial district, are there any train tracks in the area? An airport? A freeway with rumbling 18-wheeler trucks? Downtown streets with honking taxi cabs? It may not seem that noisy when you're just walking around, so having a handheld sound level meter can give a clue what you're dealing with in terms of ambient noise. Compare that with your home neighborhood to see what deficit you're facing.

The noise seems to be pretty low, the loudest seems to be the fresh air vent bringing in outside noise, but below me are lawyers/attorneys and they are a quite bunch from what I can gather, neighbour hood noise is not noticeable, they are doing construction with cranes moving a ¼ mile down the road and I can see all the activity but not hear it, so pretty well isolated I think. The wharehouse itself is also off any frontage roads, by about a half a mile, but is close to a train station, though I didn't notice any noise from the constant flow of trains. I did notice a honking car outside the window which could be heard as more low end rumble. I can tell you now that is WAY quieter than my home which backs onto a main frontage road and as I type I can hear every car that drives past the window. I don't have access to an SPL meter and they are few and far between here in South Africa, but I will see what I can do.

Another thing to think about: is there any chance that the roof would be made accessible to people not specifically working on HVAC equipment up there? Is there any risk of guests or other tenants wandering around up there for smoke breaks, taking in the view, or causing mischief? Imagine building a studio that's practically bulletproof as far as isolation goes, only to have a rude awakening of having footfall noise from the roof rendering the space useless and building management refusing to secure the roof area...

Nope, security access only, no kickball or football tryouts up there. I think on this particular roof it would be unwise as it is only a single layer of fiberglass sheeting providing the necessary sheltering from the rain, which does make me worry about our rainy winters and the roof will prob be the weakest link.

Moving out of the bedroom is an exciting prospect... Just make sure that the environmental noise issues in the vicinity of the place you plan to build will accommodate your needs and you take into account any contingencies. I imagine the terms of your commercial lease will be rather strict and long, so make sure you can live with it on all levels before you commit.

Yes, that is what I'm trying to sort out now BEFORE any kind of lease is drawn up as it is big commitment from my side being a min of 3 years or 5 years with an option to renew for the same period and would take a fair financial investment to BUILD the place, so making sure I try cover ALL the angles before signing anything. Will try respond later with info on the weight bearing of the floor. Thanks again! Matt

Okay... Small update.. I just got off the phone with the letting company and they are having the HVAC guy come in and draw out the current ducting for me today. I've asked him to give more explanation as well as to the setup, i.e is their a central mechanical room, does the AC use one massive unit for the entire building, how is fresh air entering into the building etc. I then mentioned getting a structural engineer to asses the max weight load on the floor and the PR person at the letting place seemed a bit dumbfounded and I said that I need to have them give me those figures... I even offered to bring in my own engineer and pay, oh well... lets see what happens. I have stressed the importance of the space being as air tight as possible and to prevent noise getting in or out that mass has to be added to the walls, which adds weight to the floor... so I think she gets the jist of it... at least I hope she does :shock: Cheers Matt

Just a short update, I just received this in an e-mail. Aircon – the pipes go into the roof. It is specific to that room. They cannot provide a layout plan for the aircon ducting but the technician has confirmed the aforementioned. (I'm going to try and talk to the technician in person to gather more info) RE Concrete floor – how much weight can it take? Awaiting confirmation from the structural engineers. Will keep you all posted. Cheers Matt

Alright, Just got off the phone with Eddie the technician, a very helpful chap indeed. The system that is currently installed is a standard split system with the Evaporator inside the room with pipes running to the condenser on the roof, it only cools the air, doesn't bring in fresh air. He says he didn't look at the airflow as he assumed that there wasn't a separate air fan because of all the windows, so it wouldn't be required by law/code He has suggested that we put in a fan system with attenuators to keep the noise down, while still feeding in fresh air and extracting the old air. So it seems I can at least utilize the current system within the design... plus point for me! Now we wait for the news on the floor.... Cheers Matt

Well.... the chapter closes... Man I'm wearing thin... how hard can it be to understand what I want to do! After all that leg work, even spent today driving out to friend a ways out to borrow an SPL meter only to get home to this e-mail...

After a long think about this, we do not feel that your business is suited to this particular space for the following reasons inter alia: 1.the noise protection required; 2.the noise that will be generated Thank you very much for making the enquiry Matt.

Um, so after spending 2 weeks with them, drawing up plans EXPLAINING in detail what I want to do, what I would need to do and the approximation of weight of the walls, gear etc and confirming all the info above... I'm shafted again... Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't open a coffee shop or something, prob a lot easier to sell to a prospective landlord :? Well, back to the drawing board! Thanks again for the support, advise, and putting up with my ramblings. Cheers Matt

Ugh... Sorry to hear that, Matt. Honestly, though, you're probably better off. It's much easier to build a suitable facility on ground level. Don't get too discouraged. There's a site out there with your name on it... You just have to go out there and find it. :) --Keith :mrgreen: