RC-8 Resilient channel or hat channels with sound clips

let me start by saying i have Rod's Book i do understand the difference between hat and resilient channels-- but i found a site that offers sound transfer clips for hat channels- they say that there is a greater impact noise reduction with the hat and clip combination-- can any one give me a heads up on which setup is actually better--- here are 2 sites that offer the hat/clip setup- http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.html http://www.soundisolationcompany.com/So ... -Clips.php

kalajdame wrote:

let me start by saying i have Rod's Book i do understand the difference between hat and resilient channels-- but i found a site that offers sound transfer clips for hat channels- they say that there is a greater impact noise reduction with the hat and clip combination-- can any one give me a heads up on which setup is actually better--- here are 2 sites that offer the hat/clip setup- http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.html http://www.soundisolationcompany.com/So ... -Clips.php

Kal, It's simple - they work on exactly the same principal as the RISC-1 clips shown in the book in the 4th chapter (page 59). They are superior to any standard RC if you are forced (for some reason) to work with a single wall instead of isolated construction (2 walls with an air space). Nothing is better than isolated wall assemblies - with fully seperated stud and plate assemblies. Rod

You da man Rod- you da man..... thank you---I've also read in this forum somewhere you posted that using Resilient channel is pointless with a double wall setup i will be using a double wall setup in my studio- the walls will be completely isolated from each other this would save me a few bucks if i don't have to purchase the channels - and i'd rather not spend more money-- i don't exactly have a budget tho-- instead it will be a time issue - the more it costs the longer it will take so i've decided to go with quality first then substitute only if it makes little or no difference

kalajdame wrote:

thank you---I've also read in this forum somewhere you posted that using Resilient channel is pointless with a double wall setup

Kal, Seriously now - you said in the beginning of your first post:

let me start by saying i have Rod's Book

Yet you have to ask that question? It isn't enough to have the book - you actually have to read it - don't forget - one of my reasons for writing the book is that I am too busy to keep answering the same questions over and over and over again - In Chapter 4- page 62, in the very first paragraph it says: " One point I want to be sure you get is that there is no advantage to using isolating clips or resilient channel with a true double wall assembly. Don’t waste your money by thinking that more is better in this case." Come on now..................... :wink: Rod

Don't you just love pop quizzes, Kal? ;-) For you, Rod... --Keith :mrgreen:

yes Rod you are right-- and your book is great- the only problem is all of the technical information tends to numb my brain -- to the point i end up reading and not understanding anything so what i do is read a chapter or so then compare it with other research online - or other compareable products that i find so --- E=mc sq x 2 = rc 13 RC8 divided by the radius of the resonant altitude at 1kh will give an STC of 60 wich is multiplied by the thickness of a window on mars-- means as much to you as some of your explanations mean to me after 10 hrs of consistent reading so at that point i get online and ask questions or do constant searches till my mind gets refreshed and the reason for all of this craming is- i'm opening a Pro studio in my neiborhood-- - i already have a lease on the building--- and i have to pay all of the bills every month- tho the space is empty-- so i need to hurry and get it together so that i can start making money

Kal, I'm sure we all feel your pain having been there. I wish there was a "magic bullet" that would solve this for us, but as far as I know there's only two(acceptable) ways to approach it - either throw money at it (by hiring a pro) or learn enough so you can either use "normal" construction people under your CONSTANT supervision, or do it all yourself SLOWLY enough so you learn BEFORE you commit. (OK, that was sorta three, but you get the idea :=) Rod's book has filled a gap that was pretty big, but it will still take some time and repeated reading before this all sinks in, especially if you're starting from (or near) a complete lack of experience - I don't know of any way around the limitations I've already stated. And no, it ain't quite Einstein but it's not always intuitive EITHER. So if you're still in doubt, ASK again - just be aware that sometimes we ALL get somewhat weary of answering the same questions, and we sometimes forget that WE were asking those questions once upon a time too - BTW, you DID notice the little "winkie" at the end of Rod's comment, right? Now, add to all that the stress YOU have of paying the bills, and this isn't gonna be a casual "joyride" - but even with some good-natured kidding (that's about all I'll put up with) everyone here WILL do what they can to help you get through this(that's the kind of people our membership are), just don't lose patience and build before you're SURE you're doing it right, and I'm pretty sure you're gonna be happy with the result... Steve

kalajdame wrote:

yes Rod you are right-- and your book is great- the only problem is all of the technical information tends to numb my brain -- to the point i end up reading and not understanding anything

Kal, I understand - I used to have the same problem with the varioous codes......... all the way up until I realized that I couldn't just read them and get it. So I would only focus on that which pertained to me at that particular moment in time - and focus onit until I got one little part - and then move on to the next part. I specifically wrote the book with this in mind. SO if you are in the stage of framing design - the best thing would be to look at it the way I laid it out - which is the same way you would build it - from the bottom to the top........... There is no sense trying to understand what you are going to do with walls until you understand what they will sit on - so if you take it slow - one step at a time - I think you'll end up "geting it" easier than trying to read the book (or even a whole chapter) and then saying - "ok - how do I apply this?"

so what i do is read a chapter or so then compare it with other research online - or other compareable products that i find

Like I said above - work through it like I wrote it - which is why all of the chapters are sub-divided into sections - work through a section and pick out the best you can do(I always tell you that) then focus just on that sub-section until you really understand it. If you then have specific questions - we are more than happy to answer them. And that also shows me what I need to do for the 2nd edition to make things clearer. BTW - Steve was right - that other post of mine WAS tounge in cheek...... :wink: Sincerely Rod

Before I had the benefit of Rod's book, but after I discovered this forum, I spent weeks, perhaps months, "unlearning" the crap I had either assumed or picked up on the Internet by rip-off "soundproofing product companies" along the way. Hang in there, Kai. The initiation ritual your brain must go through is tough. We sympathize and relate. The pressure you're feeling to turn that empty building for which you're already paying the rent must be hard. People often say the $30 one spends on Rod's book is the best investment they make in their projects. I'm starting to think that's false -- it's the time one invests in absorbing the book and its principles, along with this forum, where it really pays off. We're all here to help. I'm always happy to answer a question and then be corrected and/or clarified by Rod or Steve or whomever. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

And we DO love to correct you, Keithers... :twisted:

I wish this forum would have been around before I started building my studio. Unfortunately I had a very hard time finding resources, and then I really had no way of knowing which ones were credible. I would have done a few things differently, and saved time and money for sure.

Know what you mean - my part in this forum is here MOSTLY because of mistakes I'd made years ago (even with, or because of having previous construction experience), and the effort/cost I had to go to to learn the right ways - no forums, just book$$$ and a lot of "midnight oil", the alternative being a few hundred thou to get someone ELSE to design for me. So when John asked me if I wanted to help, I figured I could save a lot of people a lot of the grief I went through... Steve

ok then-- for all you "pros" i have a question that isn't answered in Rod's book how do i put in a ceiling over my double walls? i know the joists shouldn't touch both walls -- i've seen the little neoprene gadgets at keneticsnoise but i think they are expensive so how do i stretch a ceiling over my outer walls but still leave them decoupled from the rest of the structure? my first guess was to bolt the joists to the outer walls using thick rubber washers for decouplers or neoprene like washers--- but what do you guys think?

Kal, this isn't a simple question until we know what is ALREADY there, whether your outer shell is already a double leaf, how much headroom you have available, etc - do you already have any drawings/pix posted here? If not, we're definitely gonna need a LOT more info. Check out the "don't even think about..." thread at the top of the forum for a basic list of some of the details that are necessary (especially since my Crystal Ball is in the shop getting modded for High Def... :wink: ) And no, I'm not being a smart-ass (well, maybe just a little) - we just can't answer questions without knowing the situation better... Steve Locked this thread, for continuation please see http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7355