PLEASE HELP** can someone review my const. plans?

OK i'm sorry if my questions are answered in other posts - i have a lot of details to consider and it would take me a while to flip through every post - especially considering the speed of my computer- so with that said - can someone please point me in the right direction-- I am building a pro recording studio-- so the construction has to look very proffessional as well as have great results as far as sound transfer. the space i am working with is a store front property that i have leased- there is a tattoo shop on 1 side and a gun shop on the other- with a possible nite club underneath-- when the tattoo shop is blasting music i can hear the low frequencies very clearly from my location. the actual space available for me to build is about 50' x 17' x 8' - there is currently a ragedy old drop ceiling with duct work and electrical wiring above it- that hangs to about 8' with about 3' between it and the actual ceiling - the owner of the property doesn't want me to do anything destructive to the property since im leasing and it needs to be in the same condition if i should ever vacate- - pretty much i've decided to leave the existing walls as is and build a "floating room" with the exception of the ceiling - for that i plan to remove the drop ceiling over my new construction and allow the wiring and ducts to sit on my new ceiling -- with enough space for me to fit between my new ceiling and the 11' high existing one for nailing boards-- I've gotten most of my research from Rod Gervais' "build it like the pros" and online searching I'll start with my wall design - I'd like to install double walls each with 2" x 4" studs staggered using separate top and bottom plates with 2" of airspace dividing them --there won't be any wall board between the two walls - not sure if i should use R-14 or rockwool for insulation the outsides of both walls will have hat channels with sound transer clips- with 2 layers of dry wall -(1st layer layed horizontal-2nd layered vertical) with neoprene and non hardening caulk at each seam-- also neoprene and caulk at every aadjacent surface- such as the floor and ceiling the dimensions for the room i plan to build are 22' x 13' x 7' the room will be divided lengthwise at 10' - with a double wall separating the sections - the 10' room will be the iso room and the 12' will be the control room -- the 2 will be connected only on the outside walls using neoprene pads which will be painted to appear as 1 wall surface- there will be about 2 to 3" of air space between these 2 walls-- (not sure of the exact numbers just yet) of course the actual finished interior space will be smaller dimensions considering the double walls and layers windows-- as of now i am only incorporating 1 window setup into the plan- it will be 3' x 6' placed in the middle of the wall separating the iso room and CR - for the window setup i plan on installing 4 panels- total 1 5/8" thick and 1/4" thick for each wall- in the double wall setup-- the 5/8" windows will be placed on the interior side of each room slightly angled downward -- about 10 degrees and the middle windows will also be angled downward at 10 degrees --each window will sit about 1" into the framing so that will leave between 5 to 6" of spacing between each window for each wall - the windows will be sealed with neoprene pads along the complete outer edge of the glass and an acrylic sealant such as the type to seal aquariums- doors-- each room will have its own entry door setup-- i'll be using a double door setup for both with solid core doors - i'd like to use a magnetic weather stripping around all the edges of each door with a latch type lock system floors-- i'm kind of lost here - i'm not sure how to build it to minimize impact sound transfer - so far i plan to use 2" x 6" joists- with plywood layed overtop- i also looked into a neoprene underlay to lay on top of the ply wood- -- the joists will have r-14 or rock wool insulation laying between them - the same pretty much goes for the ceiling - 2" x 6" joists lined with insulation except i'd like to use the hats with sound clips and double layer drywall as for ventilation-- i have priced some ventilation systems www.soundsuckers.com they are about $600 -- i may have to get 2 for each room - haven't checked the specs yet so here's my question's what should i use for insulation between the studs and joists? answer-- R-13 (3 1/2") and R-19 (5 1/2") fiberglass insulation, rockwool, sprayed insulation what can i do to help with impact noise on the floor? Answer-- Build a floating floor -decoupled from the outer walls should i use a hdf or mdf behind my drywall? or should i use a underlay padding behind the drywall? both would work - making the mass leaf thicker-- but use green glue for board and drywall can i build my own ventilation system to save money? if so where can i find a silent fan? i believe i can fans can be found all over the web should i use neoprene padding between each stud and plate connection to absorb vibrations? and if so won't the nails still transfer the vibrations? can i put a thick plastic covering under the drywall to insure an airtight seal? also please comment on my setup idea so far whether good or bad--i am in need of a professional opinion whether something im doing is pointless and can save money to avoid it or it will hurt my overall process. i apologize if i left out any vital details- these are details from my notes- please feel free to ask anything you may need to know-- and as soon as i find a good floorplan program ill try to provide pictures

ok just a few updates i neglected to mention-- the studs will be wood-- and i was thinking about using mdf or hdf over the studs- (the hat channels and clips will be installed over the boards) i am thinking of building my own a/c ventilation system not sure where to find the fans tho

ok i've done alot of research since this post and i've been able to find answers for some of my questions- but i'm still not sure where to find some inexpensive insulation

Please edit your initial post to reflect the answers you think you've gotten from your research... That way, only the questions that remain outstanding can be focused on, and if we disagree with any of the answers to which you have concluded on your own, we can comment. --Keith :mrgreen:

updated with a few ansers to my original questions---PROs-- plz correct me if i'm wrong

Didn't notice this until I'd asked you for details in your other post - it'd be better to just use one or the other thread for continuity. I'm gonna lock the other thread, with a comment to see this one. If I move your other questions, the forum will look like I posted them instead of you, and will confuse everyone (including me) From your comments here, I'd say maintaining ceiling height is pretty important - first thing I'd do is ask your landlord whether you can do a suspended, HEAVY ceiling below all the junk but just barely - to do this, one of you is going to have to find out a LOT more detail about present construction. You mentioned a possible nightclub below, so I have to assume this is on at least the second floor - this tells me you'll need to be finding out a lot more about what the existing floor is, how much more weight it can take, ditto with the ceiling - you can't just add tons (literally) to an existing construction without knowing if the capacity is there to SUPPORT it. I'd start with your landlord - ask if they know who the engineer of record is for this building, if there is one - then check with the city to see if there are "as built" plans available. You WILL need to find an engineer in your area that can tell you (and sign off on it) whether the building will support additional mass in floors, wall, ceilings - check out Cyeazel's thread in this forum for some of the things you'll need to do/ask. I'm not being overly cautious here - there are buildings (lots of 'em) that were built with just the bare minimum sizing to save money, so before we help you kill someone this needs to be looked into... Steve

well the store room i have leased is in a single story building that stretches about half a block-- it's compareable to a strip mall-- my location is between a tattoo shop and a hunting/gun store-- the sub level has an entrance from the back of the store rooms - - it's location is underneath all of the shops on the main level-- i'm not sure of the max load for the floor-- but i'm sure it is very structurally sound-- and it will support everything i plan on adding to the space - as far as the existing walls and ceiling -- lets just pretend like they aren't there-- my new structure will not touch anything existing in this area except for the floor-- nor will I add anything to the walls or ceiling -- the reason is- it has to look the exact same as it did when i got it-- if i should ever have to vacate the premises. i also planned on taking photos of the space and posting them to give a better view

kalajdame wrote:

i'm not sure of the max load for the floor-- but i'm sure it is very structurally sound-- and it will support everything i plan on adding to the space

Well Kal, I was going to comment in here until I saw that little baby. You were just given the best advice in the world - and you fluff it off? I wish I had a dime for everythime some one on this site - or others - made comments like that - and then all of a sudden realized (after finally hiring a structiural engineer) that they just couldn't do what they wanted. As far as I am concerned - you're on your own - I won't waste my prescious time with anyone planning on running a business - who is trying to suck info out of others for free - (ya make more money that way) and won't invest his money for what the job really (REALLY) NEEDS ROM A DESIGN AND ANALYSIS POINT OF VIEWW.

ok ok - i get it i'll will check it out -- don't vacate yet Rod -- i really do greatly appreciate yours and everyone elses help-- i'll find out the max load info this weekend--

kalajdame wrote:

ok ok - i get it i'll will check it out -- don't vacate yet Rod -- i really do greatly appreciate yours and everyone elses help-- i'll find out the max load info this weekend--

Kal, Make certain he checks it out both ways. The always check for acceptable overall floor loading (dead & Live loads) but they don't always check for concentrated loads when considering shear at the edges of the existing walls. Some walls will be bearing not only wall and floor loads - but ceiling loads as well. Rod

well i spoke to the land lord earlier-- he said the joists under my unit are 2x12 and the building is solid brick construction he added that he had never been asked that before and that i should have my contractor look at at because he doesn't know the the max load he did try reasurring me that it would be fine for my ideas tho-- but i'll call around and see if i can find some type of blueprint plans for it -- this makes me wonder-- what if i can't find out?- should i not build my studio here? if so i'll be stuck in a year lease with out my business - guess i should have looked more into it before i signed the lease but it was more than half the price of other compareable store rooms - and it also has a great location

It's a stretch, but if a structural engineer reports that you're unable to safely build what you intend(ed) to, and the landlord stated previously that it should have been no problem, then I'd suggest you break the lease, and if you are threatened with a lawsuit to enforce its terms, you can threaten a countersuit for damages you sustained by the misrepresentation of fitness for your purpose. Like I said, it may be a stretch, but it may be enough to prompt him to cut his losses. Imagine parking several cars in there, possibly stacked on top of each other... That's quite possibly the amount of weight in materials you're looking at. Plus, if you were on ground level, you likely wouldn't need a floating floor... So while you may be saving money in the long run on the cheap rent, you may be paying big for materials and engineering of the floated floor system in the short run. One more word on the subject of killing people, and one that I'm sure hits close to home for Rod, literally and figuratively. We've already had one recent horrendous nightclub catastrophy, needlessly claiming 100 innocent lives, caused by criminily negligent property owners whose cavalier attitudes towards fire safety and cluelessness about soundproofing. If that doesn't ring a bell, I'm talking about The Station in Rhode Island a few years ago. It seems we have finally gotten through to you on the seriousness of verifying to absolute certainty that what you build won't kill a nightclub full of young people... Thank goodness. Also, a couple of comments about the answers you inserted in your original post, although they may become moot... Insulation: rockwool is better for isolation than fiberglass and superior in terms of fire resistence... But it is more expensive. Studs: you wrote something like "staggered studs on separate top and bottomplates." That's an oxymoron: I don't think you meant that. I'm also not clear on whether or not you intend to use the shell of your space as your outer of two leaves... :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

yeah - i'll definately check on it as far as the staggered studs- i seen a diagram in Rod's book for the double wall assembly-- it shows the studs alternating in a staggered position -- none of the studs are opposite of another-- sorry if i worded it wrong but i'm not sure exactly where to start looking for the blue prints-- i think i'll try talking to the building inspector first

hey -- what do you guys think about just building a vocal booth instead? i've been running my studio out of my home without a vocal isolation room - actually i had all of my equipment setup in my my super small bed room with plenty of junk around to help acoustically when ever i recorded the artist would stand next to me- i would simply turn off the monitors and listen through headphones - -- the reason i feel i need an isolated room is for status--to give my studio a more professional feel to my customers--- tho it won't sound too much better so i was thinking if i build a 6' x 6' vocal room --i could use the rest of the space for the control room area- though i couldn't have the monitors too loud because of my neibors- but this may be a good idea for me to start out with until i find out the max load and -- and it would save me time to apply for some grant/loan money- and even if the floors dont have enough support for my ultimate plans i could even move the studio into the vacant night club downstairs - since its a basement level and has 20' ceilings -- the only prob is its double what i'm paying now-- but if its still empty the landlord would allow me to switch without breaking the lease

come on guys-- don't all jump in at once

2x12 is only part of the equation - means not much til you know how far apart they are (center to center) how far they reach before having support under them (load bearing wall) and what materials are on top/bottom of them (total weight of supported materials per square foot) - What this boils down to for adding the weight of a floated room is that, depending on spacing between these 2x12's and what kind/grade of wood they are, you might need full support under them as close as every 8 feet or as long as every 14 feet; but doubtful any further than that. Even if you only add a booth (please do NOT make it square!!?!) you need to either go downstairs and look/measure (if the joists are visible, or even nail marks, you can find out the center to center distance and SPAN between supports) or maybe get a stud finder (about $30 at hardware stores) to locate each joist and measure between them - As to a booth, when/if you decide on one - make it 5 x 7 with an 8 foot ceiling, you'll like the sound a LOT better once it's finished. You're getting closer, but still need to dig a bit more for the info you need prior to building ANYTHING in that space - maybe the downstairs nightclub is a bargain at twice the price... Steve