CoLabs Mix Studio build

After much research, planning and scouring this and other sites, I have started to build my mix room for CoLabs, a company that I run in Calgary, AB. The space is specifically for mixing and postproduction. I started off looking at the option of building it around a 5.1 setup, but realized it wasn't worth the additional hassels that construction presented since %90 of my work is in Stereo. You can see my desicion making process on here... www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... t=mix+post Here is the final plan that I decided on. This build is partly out of necesity since I just bought 30k worth of gear. I need a place to put it all! At any rate, I have lots of questions even after all my research and would love you input as I build this thing. My first question that I need to adress is regarding the space that will be left behind the splayed walls. Slot resonators or just pack it with insulation? Any thoughts?

First concern would be symmetry; if your speakers will be soffited in those front angles, tape it out on the floor (the whole floor plan) then tape a line perpendicular to each speaker center and extending til they meet, then add lines + and - 15 degrees from each of those; where they form a diamond shape, that's your approximate "sweet spot" - continue the line from your right speaker over to where the sliding glass door goes, measure that angle and "reflect" it off the glass. If it misses the "sweet spot", then you could use slat absorbers on the opposing side. If not, you may wanna build some portable absorbers to park in front of the glass (and the opposite side) while mixing, so your stereo isn't phased wierd due to early reflections... Steve

Ya, I have gone over the initial dimensions of the room and have arrived at this final one. I am not soffit mouniting (I've never been sold on the whole 'soffit mount a nearfield' thing) and based on my mix position, I should have a fairly reflection free sweetspot. My main areas of surface treatment are likely ro be the front and rear walls (absorption and diffusion respectivly). Just to bring you all up to speed, here is what I have completed so far. -Framed the space -Wired about half of the electrical -started wireing low voltage -installed a few plug locations, etc. It's a pretty small space and I had a lot of help framing (which I suck at) so it has moved along quickly after just a few days of working on it. Check out these pics to get a sense of what I'm working on. You can also see what I'm talking about with the space behind the spayed walls. More pics to come.

psst, better trim those pix man.

Well, I just had my building and electrical inspections today. I passed everything, which is cool. Now I am ready to insulate, hang drywall, install doors and all that fun stuff. I'll post some better pix as soon as I get some more progress to show off. In the mean time... Any one ever put recesed lights into a studio ceiling? How did you keep your isolation intact since it creates a big hole for sound to travel through? Also, I'm still looking for the best way to treat the space behind the splayed walls. I was thinking of just hanging sheets of 3" OC 703 on cables. Anyone done this succesfully? Thanks for any feedback. More to come...

Well, I have started insulating and moved some duct work. I have about half of the celing insulated thus far. I'm using Roxul safe and sound since it is readily available and has pretty good specs. I am really rushing to get this pace finished by september. Since quiting my job and jumping into starting CoLabs, I have been getting a good amount of work coming my way. Now all I need is a place to work! Once i have my celing insulated, I'll post some pix.

I found out yesterday that the fact that I have pot lights in my space will negate 80% of the benifit of RC or any similar decoupling system. I knew from the start that potlights where a less then desirable solution in a true soundproofing application but assumed that since my space was only for mix and post work, that the transfer of sound would be lower to start with and I could live with a less then "sound proof" space. Also, I tend to think that most of the lighting that I see guys putting in studios (ugly 80's track lighting, etc.) looks really bad. Basically, I liked the look of reccesed lights enough to sacrifice a bit of sound isolation. In the end I will be using a simple neoprene tape ("green tape" from super sound proofing) on all of the points where drywall makes contact with the structure. It is a minimal improvement, but will be about the same as spending a lot on a more expensive system since I have big holes in my ceiling! If I was building a recording space, I wouldn't accept this, but I feel confident that this set up will serve well for my application. I have finished the ceiling insulation and 80% of the walls and will be posting pics later today. Also, I plan on building the hanging 703 units today so I'll get some pics up of those as well.

If you need iso AND pot lights AND acoustic treatments, you might wanna check this out - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4091 Just a thought... Steve

Thanks for that. I have looked at that thread and there is some great info on there. I am building a 'cloud' that takes several cues from the design I saw there. Well, the ceiling is insulated and most of the walls are as well. To day I started building the hanging absorbers that I am putting behind the front of the splayed walls. I used all OC 703 in 3" and 2" sizes with some 1/8" mdf and 1/4" OSB for backing. I hung them on steel cable and attached them to the ceiling joists behind the walls. I have one side done so far. I'm off to buy some more 3" 703 tomorrow to finish the other side. I've seen this technique done in other studios and it makes sense to me. Anyone had good results?

Well, I have been quite slack in posting updates as I have been working non-stop in the studio. So far I have completed insulation and totally dryalled the whole space... with lots of help from my wonderful wife and a couple of brave friends! I got that 'green tape' from super sound proofing on tuesday and applied it to the florr joists above. I only bought it for the ceiling and wall between the CR and overdub booth, but I ended up with a few rolls exta. I applied it in strips on all of the remaining walls and surfaces. To be honest, I doubt that it will do a whole lot. I mean, you drive a screw through the whole barrier that you create! javascript:emoticon(':?') Oh well :? It does create a 1/8" air gap off of all the studs. From the start, of this project, I tried to set realistic goals in terms of how sound proof the space would be versus the cost of going 'all the way'. I tried to place most of my resources into creating an inner leaf that is as acoustically transparent as is realistic within a small space. Currently I am looking at using the WallWorks FabriLok system on the ceiling and some of the walls. If you haven't seen this stuff, it is, in my opinion, the nicest looking acoustic treatment out there. Their website is total crap and the pictures are horible, but you can check it out. These guys are actually based out of Calgary! http://www.wallworks.com/projects.htm I am still lookin at the cost of using this system, versus finishing and painting the ceiling and then using some other form of treatment. The fabrilok channels would create a much nicer look. They can accomidate recesed lights, so the whole finished ceiling in one clean fabric finish (with whatever acoustic treatment inside). Well, here are the latest pics. I'm back to work to start muding and taping. Wish me luck. This whole thing is a first for me! javascript:emoticon(':lol:')

Antho wrote:

. . . I will be using a simple neoprene tape ("green tape" from super sound proofing) on all of the points where drywall makes contact with the structure. . .

Can you provide a link to this "green tape" stuff? I'm quite skeptical. :roll: Smells like snake oil to me. --Keith :mrgreen:

http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/Tape.htm Very "interesting" stuff from our comical friends at "super sound spoofing.con, as usual :lol: Steve I particularly liked the part about "TIP: After running your drywall screws in, back them off a bit by holding connection, then rotating your screw gun counter-clockwise to release some of the pressure. This will relieve some of the the pressure of the drywall panels on the tape, allowing it to perform better." Sorry, Antho, but these guys are a freakin' SCREAM to people who've actually studied acoustic phenomenae - I'm afraid that about the only GOOD news I can give you on that green tape is that it probably won't HURT anything - but do NOT, repeat NOT, follow that crap about loosening your drywall screws after they're in... Steve

Yes, I suspected as much once I got the tape delivered. I was expecting a heavier ruber tape, but its pretty foamy and cheap feeling. Oh well... it was cheap. I spent about $150 on five rolls and that covered all of the floor joists and about 80% of the reamining studs in the two rooms. Live and learn, I guess! ':oops:' I am starting to mud and tape right now. I have sealed all joints between drywall sheets with a paintable latex caulking and am just now filling in my 'mistake' areas before I get into the main taping. With regards to the front on my CR... I am drywalling and covering the whole thing at this stage, even though you typically would cover the front 'dead end' with fabic, leaving the bass hangers and insulation exposed. I have been told that by covering my corners with the bass hangers, that I am negating any benifit that they offer. Since I am planning on the finished look being totally or near to totally covered in fabric, I was planning on taking some acoustic measurements with the corners still covered up. At this point I could cut an opening and apply a slot resonator-type of covering to the front walls and then cover them back up with my fabic. My thoughts are that this way, I can see what my room needs before commiting to a tuned helmholtz resonator. Is this advisable? Has it been done before?

Dear Lord, Thank you for this forum. Without it I would have surely wasted so much money on crap like that and been tremendously dissatisfied with the results. I think members of this forum should estimate 10% of the money they have saved on crap like that and then donate it to John via the adorable little "Make a Donation" button up there. :twisted: --Keith :mrgreen:

Got a pic or a plan drawing of your CR as it NOW stands? I'm seeing at least one diagonal corner but not sure of the overall room. There are a few ways to go, depending on what you already have... Steve

Sanding, sanding, sanding.... Ya here are a couple of pics of the control room. You have to imagine the sliding glass door on the left hand wall as per the floor plan drawing at the top of this thread. Also, the little white circles on the floor are the reflected locations of the recessed lights. BTW, I looked into the Wallworks system and it is quite pricey. About $11 per squaref foot! My little ceiling would cost around $1800. Has anyone succesfully covered an entire ceiling with fabric, AFTER drywalling? How did you do it? Later...

Well, I finished mudding, and sanding and finally have some primer on the walls. It kind of looks like a control room now. Next, I have to put my doors in, paint and level the floor before putting in some laminate wood flooring. The studio is on hold for a coupe of days, though. I just had a client run to me in need of some 'mix fixes' on his album. That needs to be out to duplication by friday, so I'm working on that for now... Kind of lame that this studio isn't up yet. Mixing in a small bedroom with sheets of 703 stacked against the walls isn't fun! Oh well... Later.

Is that a difuser in the rear of room? I think your room is small enough that diffusion is not appropriate, rear absorbers are needed though. I'd double check that before installing, if that is the case. All I know for sure is my room size, about 9' x 15', is to small to bother with rear difusion. Marc

Wow... I have really slacked off and not posted anything in a while! Well, to bring everyone up to speed... -Walls are primed and I am currently painting. -I have leveled out the concrete floor in the basement and have some nice looking 12.2 mm laminate wood flooring to put in. -I have revised my 'cloud' design to something larger, lighter, and ultimatly cheaper to build. -installed both the main entry door (a large glass paned exterior door with a window above) and the slding glass door. They went in with out to much trouble. It sure helps to have a clean framing job, thats for sure! Thanks Andy! As for the question about the diffusor at the back of the room... Yes, I am putting a diffuser back there. I am likely going with the RPG skylines. Yes the distance is short, but if my desk slides forward at all (It's on casters to do so), then my listening position could easily be at the 8 ft point from that rear wall, and at that point, diffusion would be helpfull. With my normal setup, I will be about 7 ft from the rear wall. I will have some absorption on that rear wall as well. I have seen many studios that have narrow control rooms that still have diffusion at the rear (check out 'the oven' Alesha Keys' Studio on the WSDG website). Well, I'm back into the studio to keep on painting... :)

Well, my father-in-law has been in town this past weekend so we managed to put the floor down pretty quickly and now we are on to building the cloud. The image of the cloud you see in the above pics is actually an old design. It called for 1/4" MDF and was looking like it was going to be both expensive and heavy. My new plan calls for 1 1/2" furring strips for the frame, 1/8" MDF hardboard for a surface to mount potlights, and fabric stretched over the whole thing. So far we have started the frame... we are kind of makeing the details up as we go. :lol: I will actually be putting another cloud behind this one down the road to further break up flutter between the floor and ceiling. Anyways, here is what we have so far... back to work!

Hello Antho, any chance you might share the plans for the cloud? Do you have a drawing with measurements and board lengths and cut angles? I may be asking too much, but just maybe you will share them.?.?.? Thanks, Michael :lol:

Ha! Thats funny, my Father-in-law who is visiting and helping me build this cloud right now is also from ancorage. Small world! Ya, I will definately post my drawings... the only thing is that my design is changing by the hour. :lol: I started out plaing on stretching farbic over the whole thing but now I am using walnut veneer for the outer "frame" of the cloud which will house my pot lights and stretching fabric over an "inner frame" which will contain my insulation. The veneer was a last minute decision, and a pricy one at that, but it will look WAY better then just stretching cheap fabric to cover the frame. We'll see what this thing comes out looking like! I'll put some pictures and clear drawings up (probably a sketchup file) when it is done.

Antho, Thanks for the quick reply! I look forward to seeing the final cloud! Thanks :) again, Michael

Looks Great! I am about 4 weeks away from needing to do this myself so I'd love to see plans and pics! Thanks Tom

Sorry everyone who has been watching this thread for the long delay in my postings. It's difficult to find time once you have a finished studio on your hands! I have been mixing like mad but will try to find time to post pics of the studio and plans for the cloud.