Studio Build from Ground Up

This is a great site and has really helped me make some crucial decisions as to what kind of studio I should build from ground up in my backyard this spring. I've done quite a bit of searching on this site and felt it was time to ask some questions relating to my build. My Goal: To build a garage like structure in my backyard (no bigger than it has to be) to house a control room, an iso booth (bass, guitar, vox), and a drum tracking room with a budget of $20,000 CND. Right now I'm in the research stage, trying to decide on the size of the outer shell so I can receive a build estimate from a friend who also happens to be a contractor. The size of the outer shell is going to be totally dependent on the size of the control room, iso booth, and tracking room...unlike most of these threads where the building already exists and the studio has to be tailored to fit. First Question What type of drum tracking room to put in, live or dead? From doing endless searches on this fourm, it seems to be split down the middle as to which is better... having more to do with your own personal tastes than anything. If I can settle on the type and size of the drum tracking room, I'll be closer to figuring out the size of the outershell. So with that being said, maybe you could tell me which type (live or dead) and size (LxWxH) most suits my needs. I'm a producer/songwriter/engineer that records mainly rock/punk rock/emo, so I'm always micing up a live kit. The bands that come in tend to prefer big sounding drums with lots of crack coming from the snare (kinda like the Blink 182/Switchfoot sound). My favourite sounding drum recording of all time is Blood Sex Sugar Magik, Red Hot Chilli Peppers. I hope this gives you an idea of the sound I'm going for. Second Question. How big does an iso box have to be for recording bass, guitar, and vocals (not at the same time)? Third Question Are control rooms usually the same size as the tracking room? I think that's it for now. Any feedback would be appreciated. Hopefully I can settle on some dimensions and post up a design.

Aloha and welcome to the forum JB :D Funny, I asked myself the same questions you did and found these tidbits of information. Most of these answers were found here and at the SAE site. I would recommend visiting and reading up on all of the good info there: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

What type of drum tracking room to put in, live or dead?

If I can settle on the type and size of the drum tracking room, I'll be closer to figuring out the size of the outershell.

Check out this video tour of Avatar Studios. They are known for their drum sounds. http://www.recordproduction.com/avatar_studios.html Also check out: http://www.sonicimplants.com/ProductDet ... ySmallAmb1

How Big Should A Drum Room Be? 12’ x 13.68’ x 16.68’ – 3.65760m x 4.16944m x 5.08416m 12.000 foot [ft] equivalent to: 3.65760 metre [m] 13.680 foot [ft] equivalent to: 4.16966 metre [m] 16.680 foot [ft] equivalent to: 5.08406 metre [m] 3.350m x 3.600m x 3.658m - 10.9’ x 11.8’ x 11.9’ 3.350 metre [m] equivalent to: 10.99068 foot [ft] 3.600 metre [m] equivalent to: 11.81088 foot [ft] 3.658 metre [m] equivalent to: 11.99985 foot [ft] 1.995m x 2.850m x 3.658m – 6.54520’ x 9.35028’ x 8.36604’ 1.995 metre [m] equivalent to: 6.54520 foot [ft] 2.850 metre [m] equivalent to: 9.35028 foot [ft] 2.550 metre [m] equivalent to: 8.36604 foot [ft]

So with that being said, maybe you could tell me which type (live or dead) and size (LxWxH) most suits my needs.

Only you can say, but most professional studio drum rooms that I have researched on the web have been on the live side.

How big does an iso box have to be for recording bass, guitar, and vocals (not at the same time)?

How Big Should A Vocal Booth Be?My understanding of small vocal booth/voice-over treatments tend to lean toward the "dead" side. During the insulating phase of my front soffits, I noticed how nice and quiet it got with each 4' x 2' x 3" section of rockwool that was installed. Bryan Giles cautioned however, against building a square booth saying; "Be careful, a dead square booth will have low end issues (you'll hear the issues on your mic.) Steve (Knightfly) mentioned that "4' x 5' x 7' inside dim's is about the best modal compromise for a small booth." Modally, with a 6'4" ceiling you'd do well with wall dimensions (inside) of 5 and 7 feet. That combination shows no modal problems at all. This means that vocals in such a room shouldn't be "colored" by the room. You would want to keep the upper half, including the ceiling, absorbed with such as rigid fiberglas insulation boards, covered with a light plastic film (they shed) and fire proofed cloth (they're ugly) - you'd likely get better vocal sounds with the singer seated rather than standing, since otherwise they will be nearly at the ceiling. Being that close to a boundary (especially if it isn't absorbed) will cause comb filtering due to early reflections. Mode-wise, a 5 x 6 x 7 (inside) booth looks very good. It will also fit into an 8 foot ceiling area if necessary, and is big enough for 3 (very) friendly vocalists or 1-2 with a guitar, so that's what I'm going to start with. Once I finish (don't stop breathing while you wait, I have 'way too many projects still open) you could change dimensions to suit, just do NOT make any two dimensions the same, or more than one dimension in even # of feet.

Vocal Booths I used Bob Gold’s Room Mode Calculator to find some ideal dimensions for a Room within a Room construction I am designing for a vocal booth... or so i thought... The maximum internal dimensions I can achieve with my limited space are: 8'L x 5'W x 7'H. Remember this is a vocal room and will mostly be used just for vocals (so I figure relevant frequencies will maybe go down as low as 85hz to capture the harmonics of a very bassy voice). The "Ideal" dimensions I came up with are: 7'3"L x 4'7"W x 6'9"H I have 3 questions regarding the results of these dimensions when entered into this room mode calculator. 1. The resulting room ratio is 1 : 1.47 : 1.58, these numbers fall close but not exactly within the "Bolt Area" graph that i see in my Master Acoustics Handbook, I don’t think its that important but should i be concerned about this? 2. There is a dip around 100 Hz in the Bonello graph, I understand this is not desirable, but is it less desirable than using these dimensions: 7'3"L x 5'W x 6'7"H whereby the Bonello curve looks slightly more flat BUT there is a problem with the modes in the 113hz-116hz frequency group (as indicated by the Yellow warning color). These are Axial and Tangential mode problems so i figure they're treatable since I plan to treat the walls with wideband absorption anyhow. 3. EXTRA CREDIT Question: The test "Fails" the first formula under the Computed Information > R. Walker BBC 1996 heading but the corresponding linked document states that this formula is for a classical music "listening room" is this a problem for my vocal booth? Should I ignore this line altogether? I would guess the first dimensions I indicated (7'3"L x 4'7"W x 6'9"H) might be the best for my situation acoustically, but in terms of width I would also be loosing 5 inches of already cramped space. And if the problems caused by the second set of dimensions (7'3"L x 5'W x 6'7"H) are easy to correct, I'd rather have the extra width. Does it even matter that much? I'm driving myself nuts here trying to wrap my mind around this design.

Are control rooms usually the same size as the tracking room?

From the SAE website:

So what size should a control room be? These days people are building bigger and bigger control rooms because so much happens in the control room now. Often the bass player and keyboard player actually sit in the control room. I often have the vocalist singing in the control room while the bed tracks go down, so a good size control room is a good idea. So many people think that you need a big studio and end up putting a poky little room at the end and call it a control room. I suggest that a control room ideally should be at least 6m x 5m with a minimum ceiling height of 2.4m. This size room means a good sized working area with space for the musos, friends and hangers on. Also because you don't want rear reflections to interfere it is better to start with a longer front to back dimension than the side to side dimension. i.e. 6m x 5m. The studio, on the other hand, requires a different set of considerations. The first to consider is do you want just one room or more? The trend nowadays is for more than one studio so the you can get isolation between players and different acoustics for each room. The acoustics you want for a live drum sound is totally different than you want for a vocal for example. I recommend at least 2 rooms. You can put drums in one, guitars in the other, keys , vocals and bass (DI) in the control room or maybe the band in one and the vocalist in the other. Getting separation between guitars and drums is usually OK in a good sized room but keeping them out of the vocal track is hard if they are all in the same room. Just a note here - the kitchen is an important room to consider. Gallons of coffee and tea are drunk in studios. An engineer was once asked - how do you normally have your coffee? "Cold with a fly in it !! "- was the reply. Also a kitchen allows for a fridge for the beer and a microwave for the pizza, vital ingredients in every album recording session. Toilets (bathrooms for you in the US) are also a vital service a studio should offer. The coffee and beer has to go somewhere. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

Studio Wall Angles http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=79 Just curious on the control room side wall angles.... On the SAE site, it specifies 6 degree side walls, yet in a great number of plans, I see anywhere from 12-20 degree side walls... what gives? Depends on the space you have - 6 degrees is the minimum 12 is the preferred cheers john Does this also apply for ceilings? Regards Simon Simon - I prefer more than 6 for ceilings if possible. I've had pinging with 6. cheers john

Hope these help, Aloha 8)

Hi Kendale Thanx for the warm welcome and the indepth response to my questions. I went back to the SAE site, like you recommended, and reread what's there and must admit that I missed some important stuff. Now that I have a starting point, maybe you and others can answer some more questions about room size. Question 1: Drum Room Size

How Big Should A Drum Room Be? 12’ x 13.68’ x 16.68’ – 3.65760m x 4.16944m x 5.08416m 12.000 foot [ft] equivalent to: 3.65760 metre [m] 13.680 foot [ft] equivalent to: 4.16966 metre [m] 16.680 foot [ft] equivalent to: 5.08406 metre [m] 3.350m x 3.600m x 3.658m - 10.9’ x 11.8’ x 11.9’ 3.350 metre [m] equivalent to: 10.99068 foot [ft] 3.600 metre [m] equivalent to: 11.81088 foot [ft] 3.658 metre [m] equivalent to: 11.99985 foot [ft] 1.995m x 2.850m x 3.658m – 6.54520’ x 9.35028’ x 8.36604’ 1.995 metre [m] equivalent to: 6.54520 foot [ft] 2.850 metre [m] equivalent to: 9.35028 foot [ft] 2.550 metre [m] equivalent to: 8.36604 foot [ft]

a) Are these the best modal dimension for a live drum room or dead drum room? b) How do you use Bob Gold's calculator to figure out the best dimensions of a room and where can find this calculator? c) I've been think about making the height of the entire structure 12 ft plus a scissor truss roof (recommended by John Sayers) for the extra height. What would be considered the height of the room....12 ft or the height of the highest point of the roof? And does the slanted roof affect the acoustics of the room for better or worse?

Only you can say, but most professional studio drum rooms that I have researched on the web have been on the live side.

d) I've only recorded at a couple different studios and in both places the rooms were rather large but totally carpeted, sounding somewhere in between live and dead. Are there any advantages of having a room that sounds in-between live and dead? e) And what is an appropriate reverberation time for a live drum? Question 2: Iso box Size

Mode-wise, a 5 x 6 x 7 (inside) booth looks very good. It will also fit into an 8 foot ceiling area if necessary, and is big enough for 3 (very) friendly vocalists or 1-2 with a guitar, so that's what I'm going to start with. Once I finish (don't stop breathing while you wait, I have 'way too many projects still open) you could change dimensions to suit, just do NOT make any two dimensions the same, or more than one dimension in even # of feet.

a) I need to build an iso box that will be the appropriate size and have the proper acoustic treatment to handle not only vocals, but miced up guitar cabs and miced up bass cabs, one at a time. I rarely record more than one instrument at a time, so this iso-box will be used strickly for overdubs. So my question here is, is it possible to build an iso box that all three will sound good in?

1. The resulting room ratio is 1 : 1.47 : 1.58, these numbers fall close but not exactly within the "Bolt Area" graph that i see in my Master Acoustics Handbook, I don’t think its that important but should i be concerned about this?

b) What is the Bolt Area? And is there a Bolt Area for every type room? Question 3: Control Room Size

So what size should a control room be? These days people are building bigger and bigger control rooms because so much happens in the control room now. Often the bass player and keyboard player actually sit in the control room. I often have the vocalist singing in the control room while the bed tracks go down, so a good size control room is a good idea. So many people think that you need a big studio and end up putting a poky little room at the end and call it a control room. I suggest that a control room ideally should be at least 6m x 5m with a minimum ceiling height of 2.4m. This size room means a good sized working area with space for the musos, friends and hangers on. Also because you don't want rear reflections to interfere it is better to start with a longer front to back dimension than the side to side dimension. i.e. 6m x 5m.

a) The 6m x 5m x 2.4m seems to be a rather large control room for my budget. I agree that the control room should be large but I don't think I'd be able to afford something of this size. Is there a standard control room ration(l x w x h) that I could use to scale it down a little bit?

Does this also apply for ceilings? Regards Simon Simon - I prefer more than 6 for ceilings if possible. I've had pinging with 6. cheers john

b) Does the angle of the ceiling rise at angle of 12° from the speakers to the back of the room or vice versa? And is the 2.4m the recomennded height of the highest part of the control room ceiling or the height of the ceiling before it begins to rise at an angle of 12°? I think that's all the questions I have for now. I look forward to hearing your responses. Thanx Jason

Aloha Jason, I'm glad you found that "collection" of ramblings helpful. Keep what you find useful, file the rest away, but be sure to examine and verify to see if what was said is true, especially before building. :wink:

a) Are these the best modal dimension for a live drum room or dead drum room?

My understanding is that this is a principle for rooms in general. Every room, be it small or large, application (drum room, vocal booth or control room) has its own set of modes and axial standing waves. The smaller the room, the more acoustic treatment (as in "dead") the room needs to be (correct me here if I'm wrong, please) in order deal with the modal and standing waves. This is NOT to say that larger rooms do not need treatment, just that they have their own areas to deal with.

b) How do you use Bob Gold's calculator to figure out the best dimensions of a room and where can find this calculator?

You can find it here: http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm and it's basically a "fill in the blanks" and hit "compute." You can also find a room mode calculator at: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html under the acoustics/shape & size tabs. The dimensions are taken from one of several articles in the area of the so called "golden ratios." http://images.google.com/search?hl=en&q=golden+ratios (see also attached) Another example: Golden Ratio Height Width Length 1.00 1.14 1.39 1.00 1.28 1.54 1.00 1.60 2.33

c) I've been think about making the height of the entire structure 12 ft plus a scissor truss roof (recommended by John Sayers) for the extra height. What would be considered the height of the room....12 ft or the height of the highest point of the roof?

I have the understanding that the "12ft height" is for the inside dimensions - floor to framed ceiling rather than roof, which is a different term/structure altogether.

And does the slanted roof affect the acoustics of the room for better or worse?

On one hand it breaks up the parallel surfaces (better) between floor/ceiling, but on the other hand, depending on what angles/height/acoustic treatment it could acts as a parabolic surface (worse) which could cause havoc. I've seen several live rooms where they treat the ceiling with a series of "clouds" in order to break up reflections and provide absorption.

d) I've only recorded at a couple different studios and in both places the rooms were rather large but totally carpeted, sounding somewhere in between live and dead. Are there any advantages of having a room that sounds in-between live and dead?

From the SAE site/acoustics/absorption tabs

For an instrument to sound good you must hear a balance of its high and low frequencies. If your room is too dead in the high frequencies the instrument sounds lifeless and tubby, whereas if it's too live in the high frequencies the instrument sounds distant and has no presence. To balance a room you must have a true balance of the high frequencies and the low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness. http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html

e) And what is an appropriate reverberation time for a live drum?

I don't know of a formula or prescribed RT specifically for drum rooms, but if you find one, I'd be interested in adding that to the "collection of ramblings." RT60 Calculators: http://www.trinitysoundcompany.com/rt60.html http://www.csgnetwork.com/acousticreverbdelaycalc.html http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-RT60.htm

Hi Kendale Once again thanx for your quick response. And of course I have more questions for you or anyone else who would liked to take a stab at them. Question 1: Bob Golds' calculator

it's basically a "fill in the blanks" and hit "compute."

I entered some ideal room dimensions into Bob Gold's Mode calculator and it gave me a page of data that I have no idea how to use. So my question here is, how do I tell from that page of data what is good and what is bad? Or maybe there's already a link somewhere in this fourm to an explaination on how to understand the data given from the calculator. Question 2: Ceiling Height

I have the understanding that the "12ft height" is for the inside dimensions - floor to framed ceiling rather than roof, which is a different term/structure altogether.

Because of building bylaws where I live, I will have to incorporate the shape of the roof for the extra height. In one of John Sayer's posts he recommends to somebody that has to rebuild the roof of their garage to build a scissor truss roof for the extra height. So this is what I plan on doing. My question here is how do I calculate the modes for a drum room with an angled ceiling. Do I calculate the modes using a height of 12 ft or do I calculate it using highest point of the room?

I've seen several live rooms where they treat the ceiling with a series of "clouds" in order to break up reflections and provide absorption.

Are "clouds" a different name for a type of absorber or diffusor and do you have a link to a room that has used "clouds" on the ceiling? Question 3: High and Low Balance in a room

For an instrument to sound good you must hear a balance of its high and low frequencies. If your room is too dead in the high frequencies the instrument sounds lifeless and tubby, whereas if it's too live in the high frequencies the instrument sounds distant and has no presence. To balance a room you must have a true balance of the high frequencies and the low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness.

a) How do determine the amount and type of absorbent material to place in a room to achieve a true balance between high and low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness? b) If you have achive a good balance, will that balance be suitable for bass, guitar, and vocals? I know these questions are bit tougher but any type of response would be appreciated. Thanx Jason

Aloha Jason, Great questions, let's see if we can find some answers for them. At random:

Are "clouds" a different name for a type of absorber or diffusor and do you have a link to a room that has used "clouds" on the ceiling?

Basically speaking, a cloud is usually an absorber type unit suspended overhead, hence, the term "cloud." They can be as simple as a slab of OC 703 or Rockwool wrapped in fabric, to units framed in wood complete with lighting. (see attached pics) http://www.johnlsayers.com/Studio/Mainpage/MP-Sonar.htm (update 1) http://www.recording.org/ftopict-26889.html http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... c&start=90 (2nd post down and on) Aloha 8)

Aloha Jason, Hopefully, more answers...

Question 3: High and Low Balance in a room a) How do determine the amount and type of absorbent material to place in a room to achieve a true balance between high and low frequencies with the right amount of deadness to liveness? b) If you have achive a good balance, will that balance be suitable for bass, guitar, and vocals?

Try this link: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html and click on the "acoustics" tab at left. Lots of good info here, and it'll explain this much better than I could. :wink: Aloha 8)

Hi Kendale Once again thanx for your help. I went and checked out your build diary and the pictures you've taken are awesome. Great job on your studio. I've learned more in the last 10 minutes than I have in two weeks surfing around this site. A couple more questions for you. Did you end up building a garage to house your studio? And is there another fourm that covers your design and build process? From the pictures you attached of the clouds, I really like the look of the Atlantis Studio. Do you have a link to their homepage so I can check some more photos? Jason

Aloha Jason, Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad the thread was helpful. :wink:

Did you end up building a garage to house your studio? And is there another fourm that covers your design and build process?

We've not broken ground yet, but there are a couple of design threads on both the current location and the future one: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ght=#15598 http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ght=#16634

From the pictures you attached of the clouds, I really like the look of the Atlantis Studio. Do you have a link to their homepage so I can check some more photos?

I've not been able to find the studio's website, but what I do have is this: http://www.lpswistdesigns.com/index.html Aloha 8)

Hey Kendale Great idea for a garage studio. I noticed in the end you decided to go with a couple small tracking rooms instead of the large room you initially proposed. What made you change your mind? Jason

Aloha,

Great idea for a garage studio. I noticed in the end you decided to go with a couple small tracking rooms instead of the large room you initially proposed. What made you change your mind?

There were several things: - John's experience - He's designed and built more recording studios than I ever will, and knows what the work environment demands and other various situations placed upon a facility. 8) - The type of music I work with which is acoustic folk/rock would benefit from/requires at least one, if not more, iso rooms. :D - There's always the downstairs garage section if I need a "large" room for tracking a complete band all at once. :wink: Aloha 8)