Basement Pre-Production/Practice Studio

Hello everyone, I would just like to say to everyone that this forum is a great resource. I have been studying various thread for the last couple months and am ready to finally start banging this little studio out... So, I recently bought a new house (a 3 family home in the city) and am putting my preproduction gear in the basement. I have fairly large monitors and like to listen loud... I produce keyboard and synth oriented music where there's always a good amount of lowend (80hz and under). Lots of exaggerated 45hz bass tones, etc.. About the room, this a house about 100 years old.. There already exists a room in the basement, that I am essentially trying to isolate as much from the structure as possible. I need to keep the low frequencies from shaking the whole building and disturbing others. Now because of the fact that the house is so old, and there is asbestos, lead paint, and horse hair plaster, I really don't want to do anything but build around what already exists... At least there isn't much of a problem with moisture, so that's a plus. Also, there has actually been people living in this room in past years, so it's not such a terrible start... Now for the dimensions I have to work with: I have only 84" in height.... There appears to be drywall of some kind attached to the floor joists, and I am afraid to remove it because there is almost certainly asbestos above that. The room is 132" deep and 115" wide on one side, that extends to 127" to the other end of the room. Due to the fact that I have very little height to work with, I have devised the following strategy... For the floor, I will lay 2 x 4's on their sides and will have them sitting on 1/2" Neoprene cut into strips. I am then going to nail 3/4" MDF on the 2 x 4's and that will essentially be the new floor. The walls will be framed with 2 x 4's and I will be using 5/8" fire code drywall which will then have a layer of 1/2" mold resistant drywall glued over that. I am going to leave 6" of airspace around the perimeter from the existing walls. Also, the two walls are essentially very thin plywood glued (I think to the cement walls). The ceiling construction will consist of 2 x 4's again layed on their sides, attached to the wall framing with screws and a layer of either 5/8" drywall or 1/2" mold resistant drywall... I essentially am just trying to isolate the room from the rest of the house as much as possible, so I can create music in to the wee hours of night without disturbing others in the house. This is the best plan I could come up with through the research I have done. Anyone have any tips or ideas about what I intend to do?

For the floor, I will lay 2 x 4's on their sides and will have them sitting on 1/2" Neoprene cut into strips. I am then going to nail 3/4" MDF on the 2 x 4's and that will essentially be the new floor. This can be a recipe for disaster - first, check out the first page of the "floating floor in basement..." thread in the REFERENCE section for more on loading/compression of neoprene - also, you do NOT want an un-damped wood floor; at the very least, you'd want R-ll fiberglass insulation between your flat-laid 2x4's so the plywood won't RING. The walls will be framed with 2 x 4's and I will be using 5/8" fire code drywall which will then have a layer of 1/2" mold resistant drywall glued over that. I am going to leave 6" of airspace around the perimeter from the existing walls. Also, the two walls are essentially very thin plywood glued (I think to the cement walls). 6" air space, provided there's insulation, should be enough; but don't GLUE the panels unless it's with Green Glue, and even then this isn't really GLUE so much as a Constrained Layer Damping material. You'll still need to use fasteners on a normal spacing. When you use REAL glue to attach two panels together, you create a new, lower, but SINGLE coincidence frequency in the wall which actually REDUCES the effectiveness. If there's thin ply glued to the concrete, this may be forming a vapor barrier. Putting anything such as kraft facing on insulation, or oil base paint, or foil, in ANOTHER part of that same wall will TRAP MOISTURE and cause mold and rot. The ceiling construction will consist of 2 x 4's again layed on their sides, attached to the wall framing with screws and a layer of either 5/8" drywall or 1/2" mold resistant drywall... 2x4's, even ON EDGE, are only rated for about a 10 foot span with one layer of drywall. Laid flat, they're not even LEGAL or SAFE. And, unless you have some sort of resilient mount, they won't reduce ANY sound from getting upstairs. I essentially am just trying to isolate the room from the rest of the house as much as possible, so I can create music in to the wee hours of night without disturbing others in the house. This is the best plan I could come up with through the research I have done. I understand, and starting with only 7 feet of headroom is a bitch; still, what you're proposing isn't going to work. Have you taken any sound level readings or done any experiments to see just how loud the sound nas to be in that room before it's objectionable to others? That would be the first place to start. Don't give up hope just yet - there's usually more than one way to "skin a cat"... Steve

Hi knightfly, I've read about the proper loading of the neoprene. I actually got the neoprene idea from that thread. Now, as far as the RII fiberglass goes, do you think I will have enough room for any with only 2" of airspace? Will the fact that the fiberglass touches both the new floor(3/4" MDF) and the cement subfloor defeat the purpose of the neoprene? I was going to use Green Glue, but I'm thinking I'll just keep it simple and screw the drywall sheets together for the walls... Now, the concept for the ceiling was essentially to rest the 2x4's or 2x6's on top of the new walls. They actually will not come into contact with the exisitng ceiling (2" gap between)... I was thinking of using 2x6's with one sheet of drywall attached... I know that what I am proposing isn't exactly the proper method, but with such limited space my options are extremely limited. Also, I have done some brief experimenting with listening levels within the house. I have my current monitor setup in the exisiting room, and I am getting virtually no attenuation of the low frequencies in the room directly above the proposed studio room.. In fact, they seem much louder.. I would say I can listen at a consistent 90-100 db and the major problem for me is these low frequencies in the 20-100hz region. I appreciate all of your input, and thank you in advance for your reply and additional thoughts on my situation....

I've read about the proper loading of the neoprene. I actually got the neoprene idea from that thread. Now, as far as the RII fiberglass goes, do you think I will have enough room for any with only 2" of airspace? Will the fact that the fiberglass touches both the new floor(3/4" MDF) and the cement subfloor defeat the purpose of the neoprene? If you float your floor, no matter HOW narrow the air space you will want insulation. You can compress R-11 enough in a floor so that it'll fit alongside flat-laid 2x4's, it won't short out your neoprene - with the neoprene, your air gap should be around 2" so you're compressing the fluffy insulation by about 45% or so, which isn't enough to make it firm. It will just help damp that 3/4 ply "drumhead", which should have a resonance around 90 hZ which you WILL want damped. I was going to use Green Glue, but I'm thinking I'll just keep it simple and screw the drywall sheets together for the walls... Probably OK for walls, since your ceiling will likely be the weak spot anyway. Now, the concept for the ceiling was essentially to rest the 2x4's or 2x6's on top of the new walls. They actually will not come into contact with the exisitng ceiling (2" gap between)... I was thinking of using 2x6's with one sheet of drywall attached... If you're still talking about horizontal joist placement, it still won't work. I know that what I am proposing isn't exactly the proper method, but with such limited space my options are extremely limited. getting virtually no attenuation of the low frequencies in the room directly Also, I have done some brief experimenting with listening levels within the house. I have my current monitor setup in the exisiting room, and I am getting virtually no attenuation of the low frequencies in the room directly above the proposed studio room.. In fact, they seem much louder.. I would say I can listen at a consistent 90-100 db and the major problem for me is these low frequencies in the 20-100hz region. This isn't going to go away until you "bite the bullet" and remove the existing ceiling, with whatever's there - it's obviously NOT built right or you'd have some isolation, it already apparently has two leaves of mass so anything you add BELOW that will only WORSEN your LF isolation by turning it into a 3 leaf barrier. IF you think I'm making this stuff up, read this http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4400 And this http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4796 I know you don't want to hear this (I wouldn't either) but the physics of isolation are what they are; 3 leaves does NOT stop bass well. Only two, both heavy, and as far apart as possible and damped and decoupled. Here's an example to make it more clear... Steve

I agree with what you are saying.... I've decided to scrap the idea of putting it in the basement, there just isn't enough height to do it properly. I will now be putting the studio in the second floor apartment. I've got 9 ft ceilings and tons of square footage for offices, vocal booths, live tracking room (double parlor living room)... I'm going to start with the control room. The dimensions of the room are 13ft x 14ft, and I have 9 feet of ceiling height. This only new issues I have to think about are two rather large windows... I'll need to research the best way to go about taking care of these (maybe putting a second window in the new walls?.. There's also a closet that I have to think about either sealing or using as a vocal booth... My budget is about $1000 to get the floor, walls, and ceiling built. I will be doing it completely DIY. I'm pretty excited about this and even though it will cost me a considerable amount of money(one less tenant in the building), I think it will be worth it. The plan is to build the floor on 2 x 4's over the exisitng hardwood floor... Can I get away with laying these flat, or is it much more beneficial to lay them on their sides (on the 2" side)? I will be posting pictures of the propsed site in the next couple days.. Now, all I need to get started is a good source for NEOPRENE??? Anyone know a good place to buy 1/2" Neoprene in MA or RI???? Or the internet?

Wait a minute... I just realized that this would probably equal a three leaf system for the first floor ceiling/ second floor floor... Great... now what to do? I'm not interested in pouring concrete on the second floor. Any ideas?

3-leaf is definitely BAD, as is adding too much weight without knowing what is supporting it. Need pix/sketches of existing framing, sizes, spans, etc, first. Also, floating a LIGHT floor on 2x4's will NOT get you BASS isolation, period... Steve