How to lay it out

Hello, I am brand new to this forum and excited that I found it! I am looking at a space for a studio that is about 20'x25' (6.1x7.6 meters). I want to at least get a control room with a rack bank behind the mix position and a couch (if they will fit, the rack could go off to one side if needed), tracking room, vocal booth and at least a 5'x5' (1.5x1.5 meter) storage room. I plan on using nearfield monitors so soffit mounts are not required. If it could handle another iso room (for amps) I would love it, but if I can't make it happen in this space, so be it. Please let me know what you think and what the best layout would be. Thanks allot!

Anyone? No one has any ideas? :cry:

Carl, sometimes it takes a while - John, Thomas and I all have "day gigs", John is in Australia, Thomas in San Francisco, and I'm in Oregon, so there are time differences as to when we get to posts. In the meantime, have you checked out the SAE site and other resources already in place? click on the logo at the upper right of the page, and go where your rodent takes you, there's a lot of info on the site already. For starters, you might check out the "Corner Control room" plan here - http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... /Plans.htm that's just a small part of the wealth of info at the SAE site - there are also lots of pix of studios in progress at some of the other sites listed under that upper right page logo at the top of this page. That particular Corner Control room drawing could be scaled to fit a 20 x 25 area pretty easily, with some of the areas changed to fit your needs. I'm sure John, our design wizard, will join in soon, meantime have a look around... Steve

I agree with steve. chewck out the corner control room design at SAE and get back to us :) cheers john

I like the concept of it allot, but the problem I have with the corner control room is that I don't feel I would have enough space in the control room for the rack bank, even if it was off to the side, and a full length couch and maybe a small end table on either side. From playing with the layout I would have an 8'x8' room, barley enough for my gear and desks. I would like to have some sort of seating area in the control room. The image is the very first idea I had for the room. I think I made it 25'x25' by accident. PLEASE HELP!

Carl, you're running into the main conundrum we all do - your layout would work well ergonomically, but acoustically it would be a disaster. You need a symmetrical mix position, with early reflections controlled at the mix position. We'll need to spend some time on this, and unfortunately I'm off to the "DDJ" - (Dreaded Day Job) - If John doesn't get a chance to work his usual magic first, I'll give it a try after I get some sleep tomorrow morning. Have patience - there's a lot to consider in something like this so you don't regret rushing... Steve

check out this thread where we discussed a 20 x 20 room before. http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 66&start=0 cheers john

I like the control room and iso booth layouts for the 20x20 areas. I need a bigger space for a tracking room. Something more along the lines of a 12x20.

like this then?? cheers john

That could really work. What are the demesions of the control room? How would you set it up with out the soffit mounted speaker and where could I locate my 3 bay rack? What about moving the console up a foot off the front wall? Would that give enough room for the rack? I think the rack is about 20-24" deep.

How about something like this?

Sure - but you are crazy if you don't build the soffit mount IMO cheers john

Do you mean just the soffits in front themselves for acoustic purposes, or for speakers? I don't plan on running anything larger than nearfields in the room. Please explain the purpose of the soffits and why they are important so I can understand your idea better. How would you design them into the room as I have it laid out? Also can you point me in the right direction for the sliding glass doors? Like a vendor or specifics I should look for? in the dead area between the control room and live room, would you fill the void with insulation? I really appeciate all of the help!!

Can I have this one John.... :) I was a wonderer too about soffits. They look nice, but what is the purpose for nearfields, isn;t that against the reason these things were made.... Well............... I built soffits to mount my Mackie 824's.. Now of course because of the angle of the soffits, there is some reflective benefit. and Because of how the lower half of the soffit is constructed. With room for hanging bass traps, etc... again there is an acoustical benefit. But....... Most importantly, it GREATLY improves the sound of your speakers and how they couple with the acoustics of the room. I mixed my wifes album prior to building my room. http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/591/kristal.html (Not a sales pitch, but you can hear the samples. And hear what I got without a good room. This week, I remixed the 1st track on the album in my new room with soffit mounted Mackies.... Email if you'd like to get a copy of the remixed file to compare with the old file. (mp3) or AAC [removed] I have better presence in the mix, and whoa.... The mix is more spacious sounding as well as more dynamic. Because I could finally hear this stuff. I am no acoustician, just an Engineer who has receive his 2nd Gold record this year for mixing. YOU WANT TO Soffit mount your speakers. It is worth the sacrifice of a big window. I am installing a 24x27" Window in my studio when we start the live room next week. The window is so secondary to being able to get GREAT mixes without going to Joe Blows $125/hr spot to mix. Thanks to John, Barefoot, Knightfly and Eric Desart. These Guys know their stuff. They may contradict one another sat times, so you have to hear theory and balance it with practicality, but John is the Man. SOFFIT MOUNT THE speakers.... TRUST ME..... Bryan Giles

giles117 wrote:

YOU WANT TO Soffit mount your speakers. It is worth the sacrifice of a big window.

It's not the window I am concerned about. The distance from me to the soffit speakers just doesn't seem to make sense to me and seems like a waste of needed space when I am just using nearfields. Plus the desk I will be using is designed to support a set speakers. I understand that the soffits could help make the sound of the room, but for some reason I can't get past this hangup. I have always considered soffit speakers as just a way to blast music loud enough for people sitting behind you can hear better. Like if I was using a speaker with a 12" or 15" sub in them. Seems like overkill for my 8" Events 20/20BAS or possible Genelecs 1031s. Please correct me or explain to me if I am still not understanding. How would you work them into my design? Is there a specific height they should be at? I worry about having to angle then down towards me that I might not get it right. This room is like my baby and I am being very worried about it. The design is relying on a lot of help from you gracious guys since I have no budget for an architect or designer. You input is VERY welcomed and needed!

Let me lay out for you my soffits. At ear height, I am about 50" off the ground. So I built my soffit where 44" off the ground the ledge for the speaker is built. Per John's Specs.... Realize I layed my speakers on their side. (I Just prefer to hear them that way) That made the horzontal plane (HF and LF Driver center point) at about ear level for me. I mix at about 74 to 83 db max. I really enjoy mixing at these levels especially siunce I soffited my speakers. SO for sonic and mix reasons, I have found soffiting my speakers to be better than anything else I have done. The Bottom is WELL defined, the mids are GREAT, etc... I could go on and on. I too had your concern, see Mackies have a rear Passive radiator. But buil;ding this soffit has had no negative effect on what I hear and how my mixes translate. What is the distance from you to the soffits?? My room is a small room. about 10.5 ft by 13.5 ft prior to build. My speakers are about 5' apart now and about 5' feet from me. (The equidistant Triangle we hear so much about. SO you would just have to reposition mix position to adhere to this basic rule. I have a desk design to mount the cabinets. I am telling you, you cannot compare the difference between soffit sound and free field sound of your speakers. It is NOT overkill. Maybe visually, so jazz up the soffit and make it pretty, but the sound is the most important thing and you will LOVE IT!!!! Keep them at ear ht and you will not have to angle them down. And my room is my baby too. All who have seen and heard it Love it. Engineers and laypersons. Just for infomation, My desk puts me about 5' from the front wall, the desk is 30" deep, and sits about 18" or so from the wall. That lefgt me with enough space to have a Bass, Gtr and Keybd player in the CR for a session. Bryan Giles Below is a sample soffit build of another guys studio located on John's site.

giles117 wrote:

What is the distance from you to the soffits...My desk puts me about 5' from the front wall

I don't have that luxury since I am very limited on space in the control room. As you can see from my drawing, the desk is about foot and a half away from the front wall. This is to give me enough room for my back not to be up against the rack bay and allow for the couch in the rear.

giles117 wrote:

Keep them at ear ht and you will not have to angle them down.

That's how I run mine now, but looking at were my soffits would be and keeping the speakers at the correct level, they might be firing into my computer monitors and the bridge on my desk. If my budget can swing it, it would be nice to have a pair of 3-way speakers mounted in soffits for the clients and producer in the rear seating and for referencing. I need to talk with my partner and see what he would like. Again, if you could, please note my drawing to show me how you thing the soffits should work. in the pic the console looks alittle smaller than mine, it 7.5' long in reality the one there looks like 5'.

Ok, I am confused, this is new construction or are you retrofitting an existing room? If it is new construction in this space, then you really have nothing to worry about, mayb change the placement of your equipment racks. I have mine to the sides of my mix position. They are 14 spc racks and hold all I need. Do you have pics of your current set-up? If this is a retrofit. If this is a new build QUIT FRETTING :=) Bryan Which drawing are you refering to? The 1st one or the one modified from John's Design???? One Last Question... How far is the Front of the desk (the side you sit on) from the wall??

The facility will be going into an empty space. The way John layed it out, with the size of the rooms is perfect. I can't stand having racks to my sides. Having the racks right behind me is something I have always commended to the studio I worked in. It's also going to double a kind of producer's desk. Considering the limited space in the control room, I can't see how the racks would fint comfortably on any side. The image I posted later of just the control room is the one I am talking about. The one with the brown rack in the middle. My partner and I are set on this layout for the room based upon what we have come to prefer over the years in different rooms.

Ok, Well his design shows a control room of about 15' in depth, so that should work fine for you and you'd still have room behind those racks WITH the soffits built. I can not express to much.... You will love the sound you get. Bryan

I see now how the soffits work from this picture. Makes sense now. I have to figure out how they will play into my room. Only thing is for how we want it laid out, 15 feet isn't eough. It's cramped at 15. My calcs say should have 18.5 in order to be comfortable. I might be able to loose 2 feet into the storage and iso booth. Hopefully things will work out nice and I can get a 25'x30' space and be real happy and afford the extra space needed in the control room.

This is my suggestion :) cheers john

Oh yeah!!! :D I like that allot! That looks very nice John. All I would do is divide a little space at the bottom of the vocal booth for storage. This should be the design. Let me discuss it wirh my parnter tomorrow. Thanks so much!