Apologies in advance...

Hi all. Thanks for the advice on the toilet door. Whats a pocket door? oZ

A pocket door (as we call them in these parts) is a door that slides into the wall when open. It's like a sliding glass door, but no glass, and no stationary window part. See "Install a Pocket Door" on DoItYourself.com.

Hi guys. Been a mad couple of weeks. Looking good for those plans still. Need to decide about wall, floor and ceiling construction. I have been swatting up on the subject using this forum, and it seems i have 2 options. These are the current non-variables in order of importance; :arrow: low ceiling hight (about 8') :arrow: the need to stop as much transmition as possible going up through the ceiling :arrow: the need to stop transmition from live room/booth to control room. These are the two ideas ive seen on this forum that could work for me. Any opinions or suggestions?? Thanks in advance guys. oZ

Hi guys. Just had a bombshell dropped that i wanted to share with you all. Its been nearly a year since i first posted my thread about what i want to do to the space that had been allocated to me by the creative foundation http://www.creativefoundation.org.uk/, and since then no construction has started at all. Before i was allowed to view the properties available, i had to go through interviews, have a solid business plan and cash flow forecast. Once they were "OK'd", I was then allowed to view poptential properties. So many factors have been thrown in and out of this development, it has become somewhat of a farse. I feel like a rag doll, and been pushed aside for bigger businesses by a company set up to help small businesses. As explained previously recording is my primary source of income, and i started from a home studio, and wanted to turn it into something a bit more proffesional, no abbey road, but somewhere i can feel comfortable bringing clients, and an environment dedicated to recording. During the delays of this project, pressure has been on my business as it has completely outgrown its surroundings, and this has had an effect on the business itself. Today i found out that the creative foundation have scrapped the idea of putting the studio in the preposed buildings, as they cant afford to build the studio along with other developments they want to do to the rest of the building, even though the studio was the FIRST busness idea for the development. They are curently trying to find an alternative premeses, but already the time scale is gonna slide due to new designs, etc, etc. I feel hurt, angry and upset with not only how my business has been treated, but how i personally have been let down by a foundation dedicated to bringing small creative business to a delapadated town (There are currently NO proffesional studios in the town, and a massive music scene). So I just wanted to explain that this thread is now redundant of any use. I emensly appriciate the help I have been given by many ppl including Sharward (keith), Knightfly (steve), and John Sayers, and hope you have not felt you were waisting your time helping me as nothing ever seemed to get built! I leave you with this; If you are building and funding your own studio, i understand it must be hard and stressfull interms of finance and doing the work yourself, but please savour the fact that YOU are the deciding factor, and YOU are ultimately in control. I very much envy the ppl who are going it alone, without the help of foundations, charities and landlords, as if the studio needs to be finished, you just work harder, where as i sit and get frustrated! Thanks again to this great forum. oz

Ozzy, I'm very sorry that your blood, sweat, and tears haven't been more fruitful. Yours isn't the first project here that has been all but scrapped due to complications with funding, partership, or real estate issues. I'm sure there are others who can closely relate to your situation. You are very kind and thoughtful to express thanks to us as your project essentially comes to a close. I'm big on "if you can dream it, you can do it," so I'm sure it's just a matter of time, and hopefully a short one, before you're back to the drawing board with pencil, straightedge, and abacus, crafting another plan. I'm sure if you wrote everything down that you learned from this experience, it would fill a book. You've emerged smarter and stronger. :) Hang in there, Ozzy from !Kent!. 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Ahem, testing testing 1, 2...Get ready for a long post :lol: The new and improved Oz Studio is now on the cards again 8) Ok here goes... Had a meeting today with the C.F to discuss other potential sites, and to my amazement, they had found a suitable potential new place, got the plans, spoken to structural engineers, and called the project manager whos in charge of the rest of the building in on the meeting! I think they realized they f*cked me about "good and proper" (as us brits would say), and did a hell of a lot of work to bring the "studio" idea along. So we went to look at the site. Building work has already started on the rest of the building, so we had to wear hard hats, etc. My area is technically a basement, but at the rear its ground level, so i would have my own entrance through a small kitchen area and a toilet area, then through a door into the main area. The main studio area is quite a bit smaller in size than the last place, which im a bit bummed about, but the good news is the ceilings are at least 9 1/2' high, which means floating floor, and independent ceiling/ shell design! Woohoo! To one side the walls are at minimum 13" thick stone and concrete, and the other at minimum is 30"!! (Were talking VERY old buildings here!) Excellent potential isolation? The ceiling was exposed so I could have a good look. To a novice untrained eye (mine), the struts looked like 2x8", with single wooden floorboards (that are gonna be ripped up for a sealed flooring). The concrete floor is really thin, aparently about 1/2 inch thick over hardcore! (the builder described it as a buscuit!) They plan to dig it up and lay a new floor, couple of inches thicker. If you remember, the studio wil be built by contractors (bringing in sub-contractors for special areas such as damp membrane lining, etc). I met the "head" of the builders, and to my joy he had experience in studio construction. We chatted and he knew the basic principals of what i want to do; floating floors, 2 layers ofset drywall, isolated ceiling on new walls, non touching frames e.t.c. Im still gonna spec everything but everything I said, he understood/agreed with, and everything he said tallied up with what ive learned here (and rods book). I was also chatting to the project manager of the whole build, and he said, "You know most ppl think insulation helps improving isolation, but really decoupling and sheer mass are the answers." I thought "excellent!" I wanted to put plans up here for ppl to see/comment on etc, but as my trials of smartdraw and sketchup were used up, i decided to use good ol' paint until to express ideas, as ill end up doing a hand drawn layout to give to the project manager. I appologise in advance for the pics, They'll be in 1:50 scale if your using a samsung syncmaster172 :wink: , but i included dimensions (these are lifted straight from the architects floorplan, so they should be pretty acurate!). The red lines outline a support beam that drops approx 45cm below the bottom of the ceiling joists. The Circle is a pole thing (cant remember the term :roll: ) that is there perminantly. The Dark grey block is a new wall they are putting up to support the old walls (in accordance with structural engineers wishes), and the light grey boxes are these strange footings that poke out of the bottom of the wall up to about 1'/30cm. Apparently these are part of the foundations and cannot be removed, which impacts on usable floorspace. Ive included the only plan (pic 2) that i could see to be usable, but hope the experts here could see any better alternatives, or agree with this one (apparently, i dont need a straight exit from each room, as its now all done on distance vs obstructions? cool 8) ) Sorry for the long post, but im pretty excited of the studio actually happening again!! I apreciate any views comments, so lets here em people!!

Congratulations, Ozzy! 8) 8) 8) That is most excellent news! This seems very promising indeed! 8)

Ozzy wrote:

I was also chatting to the project manager of the whole build, and he said, "You know most ppl think insulation helps improving isolation, but really decoupling and sheer mass are the answers." I thought "excellent!"

Sweet mother of jumpin' jehosephats! :twisted: Do you anticipate any trouble with loading/unloading of gear and people through the common kitchen area? Would love to see photos when you have a chance. --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi keith. Yeah i guess dragging the gear thru the kitchen and control room wont be ideal, but i guess theres no other choice unfortunately! :? RE pics; I was standing in there, with my camera phone in my pocket but didnt take any bloody pics!! What an idiot! Im gonna try and get back down there asap for pics, not only for the forum, but i think itd be nice to have a pic hanging in the finished studio reminding me what can be achieved with time effort, and help and support from great ppl such as yourself! If youve got any thoughts on the layout, itd be much appriciated. After a nearly a year of surfing this forum, i can kinda see a basic layout of stuff, but its nice to have more experienced folks check it out and point out any howlers! oZ

You may want to draw in your console, chair, and other seating, so that you can get an idea of the pathway people (and gear!) would need to take from entrance to live room. Would you be willing to sacrifice some square footage for the sake of having people being able to go in and out of the live room without going through the control room? Obviously you've mastered the "no opposing parallel walls in a room" concept. :-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Ok, come up with another design. Smaller CR, but direct access to LR, and also encorparated a vox booth/ amp closet. Do you think the CR would be too small? :oops: oZ P.S; Does anyone know if Johns back online? His expertese would be a life saver here! :idea:

Hi all. Got smartdraw going, so the basic floorplan (as is) is here to download. Ive included a couple of pics of layout ideas, but not that fond of either; cant seem to get the balance of space between LR and CR. :roll: Will keep battling, and if i come up with a good'un, ill stick it up! :P Any help, ideas, or comments would be amazing. Thanks in advance, oZ

here you go Oz. cheers john

:lol: :D Amazing!! :D :lol: Cant thank you enough John. OZ

Hi guys. Had a site meeting today, and instead of proudly showing off the new pics i took and explaining the developments, i have a confession... I have made a bit of a f*ck up :oops: There is a lower deck in the ceiling where the staircase to the basement used to come from, and i presumed it would be taken out with the staircase so the whole ceiling would be flush @ 2700mm. But no. It dawned on us that this is a big problem. There is a room off the back of the floor above the sudio (sits above the kitchen/ entrance area of the studio), and its a few feet LOWER than the rest of the floor, so there are stairs going down to it, then into the back room. (pls see 1st pic). Ive included a few pics/photos to explain. I can think of 4 soloutions; 1. Redesign, and write off the space under the deck (maybe a cupboard?) and loose another 2sqm (approx). I doubt this can be done tho, as space was tight already; i cannot see a soloution anyway. :roll: 2. Use the hight of the deck as a guide point for the front of the control room, and simply use RC and layers of drywall on existing deck for the front of CR ceiling (effectly loosing any isolation from control room to rest of building due to flanking paths). see pic 2. 3. Get the owners of the building to raise the hight of the staircase (up through the whole building as loss in ceiling height will have a knock on effect), so my ceiling is even. 4. Give up on this site, and start looking for a different premesis. BTW, in the photo there is a acro-bar holding up the platform/ deck, but this is only temporary and the perminant deck (to be made better than the current one :wink: ) will be supported by the stone walls, and ceiling/floor joists. Also you can see the steps coming down to the deck from the main ceiling/ floor. Any ideas? Is there a solution? Should i give up oning a studio and become a shelf stacker in a local supermarket :wink: ? Appologies in missing this guys, i guess it all to easy to presume stuff about existing structures. I look forward to your thoughts. oZ

Sorry about your latest hiccup. :-( Can you explain option #2 a little more clearly? I'm envisioning a big "soffit" across the front, above and behind your desk, with perhaps some storage cabinets on the left side. Yes, it would be a pain to construct effectively, but it might be better than "starting over again." :roll: --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi Keith, yeah definately feels like someone doesnt want me to have a studio!! :cry: Just gotta keep battling... "if you build it, they will come." :lol: Ok, #2 is very similar in what you described. The from of the control room would be lower than the rest of the room, as we would now be using the actual deck to form part of the ceiling. Ive included some pics. I imagine the isolation of the cr to be very poor, as speaker soffit will be directly below the lower deck. (just planning RC and 2 layers of DW) I guess this would cause problems with the speakers tho, as the drop ceiling will be pretty close to the top of the speaker :?: (see pic 3) Cheers guys. oZ

Hi guys. Came up with another possible layout. Its nowhere near as nice as Johns, but might be an alternative. Obviously its just a sketch, but on paper, it just about works dimentionally. oZ

Are you willing to suffer the "all traffic to/from control room must go through live room" problem? Also, weren't you the one who had the fire authorities insisting on direct ingress/egress from each room to main hallway? :roll: (If that's the case, then none of the layouts proposed thus far would fly.) --Keith :mrgreen:

Hi keith, thanks for your reply. I was indeed the person that had the plans scrapped due to direct access. However, i am now told that to "pass code" there has the be a route of a certain amount of metres (8 i think) clear unobstructed access, and every project is viewed on its own merit. I know this as when i first viewed the space i said it would be too small for CR, LR and hallway, so the creative foundation checked out the laws/ regs and told me the above. (incidently, johns 1st plan back on page 1 would still not pass as to get from the LR to the stairs, there are a lot of obsticles, and the total path would be longer than 8m. Crazy British laws eh :roll: ) You are totally right about access to CR thru LR. Im not sure im willing to put up with it, but either way there will be a trade off - loading thru CR, or access to CR thru LR. What did you think of the frist idea of a lower ceiling at the front of the CR? BTW, great to see your project coming on so well. from my point of view, your on the home straight, and about to put down the power tools, and pic up some sticks again!! oz

Thinking about it, im not sure if this one will pass code, as youd have to go "around" objects in the LR :roll: :twisted: Well TBH, id rather not go with this layout anyway, but if the lower CR ceiling idea wont work, its this or the drawing boad! oz

Hey Oz, thanks for the enthusiasm on my project's progress. :) Indeed, framing does give it a look of being close enough to completion that it's easier to see the final outcome. :D However, I suspect the last ten percent will take three times longer than, say, the middle ten percent! :lol: Anyway, I rather like the idea of the lower ceiling below/behind the desk. However, I dunno what kinds of acoustic and iso pickles you'll face with that... :roll: ...Maybe some absorbtion/clouds along the bottom of that lower ceiling would help with reflections...? And as far as iso is concerned, maybe Green Glue would help...? This is me pretending I know what I'm talking about. ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

hi oz how about to just rotate the cr of john's design by 180 degrees. then you won't have a problem with the lower ceiling if you put the sofa there... except maybe a headache for big people :) greez roman

Hi guys. Thanks for your feedback. Roman; Thanks for your post, Ill look into rotating the CR. I think i might loose some length, but its worth a go. Watch this space. Keith; Would it be worth bugging (PM'ing) anyone to see if the lower front CR ceiling is gonna raise acoustic issues? I spoke to the CF about this idea, and they think it would be do-able interms of iso. Guys honestly thanks for your feedback. Sometimes you stare at something so long you just cant be objective, and its great to have other ppl help you when your struggling. oZ

I've read here that higher in rear is better than higher in front... But that's when the ceiling is sloped.

Roman, You’re a genius! Flipping the CR 180* worked a treat! Gonna have just a low ceiling where the deck is, then have usual height for the rest of the rear of the control room. Planning to turn the low section into a giant bass trap :) 8) Will have to double check the door/ entry won’t foul on the lower deck, but apart from that were good to go :) :) :) Again, rough sketch, but on paper (and pencil!) everything works beautifully. Any takers? :wink: Many thanks. oZ