new basement studio

Hi, I'm in the process of planning a new studio for my basement and hoped you could offer some assistance. I've had a good look around the forum - a wealth of valuable information - a little overwhelming for a beginner like me so hoped you might be able to have a look at what I've got and offer comments... Plan dimensions are approx 4.0m x 5.4 m. Ceiling height will be about 2.6m. I want to use the room as both a rehersal space for my band, and also as a single room recording studio. Ive attached a plan showing a rough layout and also a 3D view of the house showing where it sits in relation to the house (downstairs in the corner). Also included is an overall plan of the new basement development to put the studio into context. The external wall of the studio will be 200 series block work (retaining wall). This will have a couple of windows in as shown on the 3D pic. Floor is concrete. Floor above is (existing) timber. Refering to the overall floor plan, the wall along grid 6 will be 150 blockwork between grids 13 and 15. I want to keep the region between grids 15 and 16 as timber construction so I can convert the adjacent bedroom into a recording booth at some stage in the future if desired, and have access between the two rooms. I'm trying to acheive the following: 1. Keep the neighbours happy when the band practices. We practice at reasonable times during the day, so doesn't need to be completely sound proof. Neighbours are very close though (about 3 m away). 2. Get a nice sounding room that will have reasonable accoutics for recording the likes of drums / bass / guitars, but that will also serve as a control room. Want to make sure it isn't too dead, but that when mixing down, the early reflections are under control. I guess I can construct a bit of a vocal booth for vocals if required. 3. Make the room pretty much sound proof for typical monitoring levels, so that I can mix down at the wee hours of the morning without disturbing people in the house (particularly in the bedroom above the studio). How close I get to meeting this will depend on budget I guess. This is where I probably need the most help - avoiding doing unnecessarily costly work. What I want to know is: 1. Whether the layout I'm proposing seems resonable. Desk location, Bass trap (BT), Diffuser (D) locations etc. Anything else you would suggest? I'm planning on making the bass traps by just strapping some 100mm thick rock wool across the corners, full height as shown. Is this enough or should I fill the corners solid with rockwool / fibreglass bats. Diffusers will probably be hand made out wood - skyline diffusers I think they're called. 2. What I should do about wall construction. Do you think the 200 series block wall will be enough as it is, or should I build another wall inside and insulate between? The windows will be double glazed, but I assume I should look at blocking these up too? 4. Internal walls - what sort of construction would you recommend? I'm thinking a standard double stud wall with gib on the outside of the two studs, insulated between. 6. Floor - floor is concrete - do you think its worth considering a suspended floor, and effectively building a room inside the shell, or do you think this would be ovekill? I'd prefer to avoid if possible for cost reasons, but if it's the only way of really keeping sound from escaping then I'll consider it. 7. Ceiling - I assume a suspended ceiling will be required, hung off resilient hangers. How many layers of what thickness Gib (sheetrock) would you recommned? How should I look at forming the joint between the ceiling and the walls? Should I look at sloping the ceiling a bit over the control room end of the room? I think that's about it for now... budgetwise, It can be assumed that the basic shell is in place and that I'm just fitting the space out (including the provsion of double-walls if required). I'd like to keep it it around NZ$5K if possible. Don't know how realistic this is though. Thanks in advance for your help! www.thesomatics.com

Hi there... made this post a couple of weeks ago and no responses as yet... is there anyone there?...

Hi Somalade, Your introductory post is really great -- great images too. Hopefully you'll get some advice here soon. I'd offer some myself, but I'm afraid I'm not really qualified to answer your specific questions. Steve (knightfly) may have missed your thread, or he intends to come back to it when he can. He's been extremely busy at home over the past couple of weeks. Hang in there... And bump again if you don't have any responses by the end of the week. --Keith :mrgreen:

cheers for the feedback, time to bump again.... have realised my initial post covers a lot of stuff, partly relevant to the studio construction thread and partly to the studio design thread, so might try splitting it up and reposting if I don't hear anything back on this post...

Sorry, I DID miss this; hope to get enough time in a day or two to get caught up here again, appreciate your patience... Steve

Hi, great, looking forward to reading what you have to say. Since I made the original post I found the room layout on this link: http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm I figure this is probably a good starting point for the acoustic treatment. I've also been reading a bit about isolated concrete slabs - this sounds appealing but in my case I don't think it will be achievable because the slab is helping to prop the base of retaining walls.

For a single room studio, you may want to consider some variable acoustic treatments - mixdowns want a "drier" room than recording normally. John has a couple drawings up at the SAE site if you're interested. Also, not clear on the drawings - for isolation you need to maintain a mass-air-mass envelope around the entire space. If you're not sure about this, show a detail of what you plan for walls/ceiling. Need layer by layer detail from one space to the other... Steve

variable acoustic treatment sounds like a great idea.. I was a bit concerned about how to strike the balance between the acoustic requirements of a control room and that of a tracking room. I will put together some sketch details and post them when I get the chance...

I'm very interested in this too... i'm in about the same situation. I have a question about the ceiling... it's not very high, about 8 feet. I'm in a basement (underground except for a foot or so) and am a bit confused about what to do without losing so much height. The floor joists for the first floor are around 10". There is a good section where there is nothing inbetween them. I was wondering if to save height, I should attach 3 layers of drywall in-between all the joists against the bottom of the flooring on the first floor. And then attach another two layers of drywall to the 10" joists (or maybe do a ceiling on the inner walls...but i think that would take away too much height). That would leave about 7 1/2 inches of airspace.... except of course the 10" deep joists. Is that a good idea? or a bad idea?? What would you recommend for the flooring considering again that I don't want to lose too much height?? Considering that I'm on concrete under ground.... would it be better to float a floor or use the space so that the inner wall ceiling isn't attached to the floor joists of the first floor. Or would I really be better off losing the height? I'm a bit confused on the concrete slabs too... does that go on top of the existing concrete of the basement? how effective would it be to just use a drum riser? using those rubber blocks that auralex sells and some 2X4s/plywood/laminate. SOO MANY QUESTIONS.... Sorry if this should be in a separate post...don't mean to hi-jack.. but thought it would be valuable considerations for the original poster. Thanks so much!

TomM wrote:

The floor joists for the first floor are around 10". There is a good section where there is nothing inbetween them. I was wondering if to save height, I should attach 3 layers of drywall in-between all the joists against the bottom of the flooring on the first floor. And then attach another two layers of drywall to the 10" joists (or maybe do a ceiling on the inner walls...but i think that would take away too much height). That would leave about 7 1/2 inches of airspace.... except of course the 10" deep joists. Is that a good idea? or a bad idea??

That is a massive amount of weight you're adding to the existing ceiling / floor above you. I would be shocked if the structure is capable of accepting that much additional weight. While it may make sense from an isolation perspective, it would not make sense from a "probably totally flattened basement with anyone inside of it at the time of collapse killed" perspective. :roll: I would recommend that you hire a structural engineer before adding even one layer to that ceiling. Some may think that's overkill, but I'd rather "overkill" than "be killed by what's over."

What would you recommend for the flooring considering again that I don't want to lose too much height?? Considering that I'm on concrete under ground.... would it be better to float a floor or use the space so that the inner wall ceiling isn't attached to the floor joists of the first floor. Or would I really be better off losing the height?

You don't have much room to spare at all. Not knowing where you are located (since your profile isn't updated with your location... tsk, tsk...), there are probably code restrictions regarding vertical clearance (ceiling height). Often the minimum is 7' 6" in habitable spaces. Note that is finished clearance, so if you've got 8' to the bottom of your joists, you've got only six inchs to spare to account for the thickness of your ceiling and your floor. I would think floating for you would not be an option.

I'm a bit confused on the concrete slabs too... does that go on top of the existing concrete of the basement? how effective would it be to just use a drum riser? using those rubber blocks that auralex sells and some 2X4s/plywood/laminate.

You might be confused by discussions of isolated slabs, which are different from floating slabs. Make sure you understand the differences, and then if you have more questions, please post them. I have gone on record here numerous times recommending against the Auralex U-boats. Here's an example. --Keith :mrgreen:

What about using sheetblok from auralex for between the first floor/basement ceiling joists??? I think it might weigh less and it's supposedly equally as effective. I know it isn't exactly cheap though.

Thanks Sharward, It's a bit confusing to read all these posts because i keep getting sucked into another post and another post and they are all 30 some pages long. I think a good option for me would be to float a drum stage... that is really going to be the loudest instrument. So instead of losing all the height everywhere, i'll just lose some above the kit. It sucks, but it will have to do. I'd rather not have noise issues and just put some quality absorption on the ceiling above. I'll have to read over some things again, but if I use the rubber pucks, some 2X4's, 2 layers of thick plywood, pergo flooring, I should lose about 9 inches from the floor? Is that enough to make a difference for isolation? Or will I really have to use concrete? I'm not sure how to handle the ceilings while conserving height yet. What do you think is more important? Isolating the floor and less ceiling.... or more ceiling and no isolation on the floor?

Tom, first off you really need to start your own thread on this; second, "There is a good section where there is nothing inbetween them" is NOT a measurement; spans, spacing, etc, are VERY specific. YOu can, after starting your own thread, cut and paste these posts into your thread and I'll then delete them from somalade's thread. Then, I need a sketch showing your upper floor layers - thickness, material, etc - plus actual spacing and spans of your joists, and anything else that may clear up your situation. I know there's a lot here; but it's difficult for me to carry on two different threads in one, and I do NOT want to suggest something to one member based on another's measurements... Steve

OK. That's why I didn't give measurements, just inquring about the general concepts found through out this site...making them more specific to my/our situation(s). I didn't start a new post, because I thought it better to not have a redundant post.... especially because it sounds like we're in the same boat. So essentially you would be answering questions for both of us... again, on concepts and minimum requirements for measurements, not based on the exact measurements of my situation. I thought the situation was similar enough to be a contribution to the orginal posting... making the whole thing a more thorough consideration of options vs. results. I'll start a new post.... you can delete these. Sorry bout that

No need for apology, I realize the entire forum's gotten unwieldy; not sure what to do about it, but it's easier for me to keep track when each thread's for a specific project. IF you want to follow along until you're ready to build, fine- at that time, your own thread will keep specifics in one place for YOUR project (as well as help me NOT give "advice A" for "project B"... :wink: