New studio starting, Sept 4/05

Hi My name is Frank, I have to say what a great resource this site has been so far. I'm a relatively inexperienced at construction .I'm building a studio in my basement. My goal is to be able to record myself and others singing and playing without disturbing the rest of the house. I don't play terribly loud and I don't mix terribly loud either. However I would like to get the isolation good enough to record drums if I want to and also to be able to sing and play at night without disturbing anyone. My idea is to have a control room with maybe an iso booth for doing vocals. If I record drums they would be in the control room. Most of the time I will probably use electronic drums. If the studio is isolated enough I would prefer one big room to two smaller rooms. I've read the posts suggested by Steve for the most part and I've gone through a lot of other threads looking at the projects to answer the questions I've had as I've been planning my own project. I've also gutted the existing space I'm going to use so that all that's left are the 2x10 joists and plywood floor in the ceiling, cement foundation and 2x4 framing and outer plywood on the walls plus the double paned windows on three walls and the cement floor. The fourth wall was ripped out totally which leaves direct access to the laundry room and the outside unfinished wall of the downstairs bathroom. The floor above is two bedrooms and it is 5/8 plywood with underlay and carpet on it. The ceiling height is 7'11" from the concrete floor to the bottom of the ceiling joists. The inside leaf of the bathroom is finished but the side facing the studio area is not. I also shortened the heat vent that ran the width of the room so it is no longer in the room at all and I re-routed the heat vents to the bedrooms upstairs so they come out in a different place. My next planned step is to put 2 layers of 5/8" drywall between the studs on 3 walls and the ceiling and to build a new fourth wall where there isn't one between the studio and the rest of the house. This will also be 2 layers of 5/8" drywall. I understand I need to caulk with accoustic caulk after each layer. After that I plan to build another room inside that. I also plan to float the floor using neoprene and insulation etc.. and build the ceiling on RC. I plan to put a min-split air-conditioner in and also another electric panel to service the studio seperate from the rest of the house. My overall budget is probably around $10,000 to $15,000 Canadian. Tomorrow I will go and try to buy a sound level meter. The Radio shacks in this area just got bought up by Circuit City so I'm not sure if I'll be able to get one. I think they have some old stock so here's hoping. Frank

Very nice intro, Frank. Welcome to the forum! Looks like you've gotten a good start on prepping your space.

My next planned step is to put 2 layers of 5/8" drywall between the studs on 3 walls and the ceiling and to build a new fourth wall where there isn't one between the studio and the rest of the house. This will also be 2 layers of 5/8" drywall. I understand I need to caulk with accoustic caulk after each layer.

You may need to add a vapor barrier somewhere. I'm rather clueless in this area though. :?

After that I plan to build another room inside that.

Good plan.

I also plan to float the floor using neoprene and insulation etc.. and build the ceiling on RC.

I vacillated on "to build or not to build a floating floor" for months. I decided not to. (Although I am going to pour a new isolated slab.) That being said, you may want to consider not floating your floor, and then having a separate ceiling frame resting atop your new inner leaf wall frames, much like I'm planning to do on my project. If you're concerned about headroom, you can interleave your ceiling joists so that they go up between your existing upstairs floor joists. What is the height measurement from floor to bottom of joists right now (not counting the beam)?

I plan to put a mini-split air-conditioner in and also another electric panel to service the studio seperate from the rest of the house.

What about ventilation? Mini splits do not provision any fresh air -- they only condition the (stale) air that is already in the room. In my project I've spec'd a heat exchange ventilator to supply me with fresh air and to save some energy too. This, too, was something I struggled with for a long time before finding that solution. That's all I have for now... I'm sure others here will have other comments or questions -- and they may even disagree with me... It wouldn't be the first time for that! ;-) --Keith :mrgreen:

Thanks for the welcome Keith.

You may need to add a vapor barrier somewhere. I'm rather clueless in this area though.

I have the same level of understanding as you. My neighbor is a retired contracter so if I have any questions he comes over and has a look and advises me. I'll ask him about that. He's pretty familiar with the local building codes which is great.

I vacillated on "to build or not to build a floating floor" for months. I decided not to. (Although I am going to pour a new isolated slab.)

I'll check that out on your thread. At this point I'm not totally married to any particular way of doing things.

What is the height measurement from floor to bottom of joists right now (not counting the beam)?

7'11". Sorry I forgot to put that in my first post. That's from the cement floor to the bottom of the joists.

What about ventilation

I was planning on doing something simple if I could. I have a question about that. How far apart should the intake and outtake vents be in a ventilation system? Can they be close together or do they need to be across the room from each other? I'll post some pictures soon. Thanks for your time Keith. Frank

bondsong wrote:

What is the height measurement from floor to bottom of joists right now (not counting the beam)?

7'11". Sorry I forgot to put that in my first post. That's from the cement floor to the bottom of the joists.

Wow! You're lucky. Many of your fellow basement dwellers have much less headroom than you do. 7'11" isn't fantastic (you'll wish you have more), but it's quite good. At this point you can hate me for having a 10' 2" ceiling in my garage... ;-)

What about ventilation

I was planning on doing something simple if I could. I have a question about that. How far apart should the intake and outtake vents be in a ventilation system? Can they be close together or do they need to be across the room from each other?

I'm by no means a ventilation expert, but in my case, I did position incoming and outgoing vents at opposite (long) ends of the room. I would think you'd need that to achieve any kind of movement in the air. :roll:

At this point you can hate me for having a 10' 2" ceiling in my garage...

OK, I hate you :wink:

I'm by no means a ventilation expert, but in my case, I did position incoming and outgoing vents at opposite (long) ends of the room. I would think you'd need that to achieve any kind of movement in the air.

That's kind of what I thought but maybe someone else can tell me more about that. My neighbor didn't know. I didn't have time to get the SPL meter today so I'll go tomorrow, but I did get a digital camera so here are some pics starting with 2 pics of the west ( nonexistant ) wall, then the north, east and south walls. What fun! Frank

Anyone know where to buy an inexpensive Radoi Shack-type SPL meter in the Vancouver, Canada area? Radio Shack doesn't exist here right now and their replacement doesn't have any either. Frank

I ordered 20 sheets of Gyproc today. It's 5/8" 4x8. It's arriving tomorrow morning. I also got a case of Lepage Accoustic Sealant. I'm going to get rid of some of the nails that came through the outside walls when the siding was put on originally. I'm cutting them off inside the house, not actually removing them. After that I'll start beefing up the walls between the studs and the ceiling between the joists. Is there any last words of wisdom I need before I start??? Frank

bondsong wrote:

I also got a case of Lepage Accoustic Sealant.

Noooooooooooo! Read this thread (all the way to the end)!

Noooooooooooo! Read this thread (all the way to the end)!

Thanks Sharward, I'll take it back. There was one other type of accoustic sealant there so I'll check the specs and see if it is OK for my purposes. I'll look into getting some backer rod as well. I really appreciate the help from the forum. I don't know what I would end up with , without it. While I was at the lumberyard I got a brochure on Roxul Safe and Sound. I've noticed that a lot of people are using Roxul AFB or Roxul RHT40. Is there a big difference between these products in how they function? Frank

Based on the stuff I've learned on-line, here and at the manufacturer's Web sites, I'm a fan of Thermafiber Sound Attenuation Fire Blankets (SAFB) - Nominal Density (2.5 pcf) and Roxul Acoustical Fire Batt (AFB) - ≥2" (2.5 pcf) -- both are very similar (competing products). See Roxul's videos. If the videos don't make a believer out of you, then nothing will. 8)

Very impressive video. I'm a believer! I notice they have a product called AFB and another called Safe'n'Sound. I'm trying to figure out the difference between them. The place I was at today had the Safe"nSound but I'm not sure if they had the AFB. I'll check tomorrow.

Amen, brother!! :lol: All I know is that Steve regularly says 2.5pcf is ideal... And the AFB product is super impressive in terms of fire protection. Look at those product names. What do AFB and SAFB stand for? Acoustical Fire Batt and Sound Atteuation Fire Blankets. What more could you possibly want? 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Adding to what Keith (Sharward) wrote, Roxul has a new plant in BC also! Andre

Roxul has a new plant in BC also!

Yes I saw that on there site. If Grand Forks wasn't a 12 hour drive from me I'd pop over and visit them. It's good to see it's being produced locally though. I'm trying to figure out what exactly I'm supposed to be buying for Acoustic Sealant Caulking. All I've discovered so far is it it should be Butyl based and it shouldn't be Lepage, which I bought unfortunately. Is there anything else I should know about this?

Hi Bondsong, The LePage stuff isn't that bad....but you need to know its limitations. It cannot be used to span gaps, it needs good contact with the adjacent material, and wants to be applied into a corner. Apply it thin, and it will work....apply it thick, and gravity will pull it right down. I'm using it for my build, because the price is right compared to the alternatives. But, I will not be using it for my ceiling as I don't think it will be able to hold up against gravity when applied to a ceiling surface. You need varsol to clean it up too....and do take care to clean it up right away because it has a tendancy of finding its way onto your shoes and then through the rest of the house. IIRC, Safe 'n Sound and AFB are pretty close in density. AFB is a little more dense, and likely marginally better, but I can vouch for the Safe 'n Sound product, its good stuff. The 24" sheets are kindof tough to work with since they are not as stiff, and tear more easily, but the 16" sheets are great. Cheers, Kris

Thanks for the info Kris. It was very helpful. I read the label on the Sealant when I was in the store and noticed that the guy who was having trouble with it wasn't following the insructions as far as how big a gap you could fill. However I'm going to start putting Gyproc on the ceiling between the joists almost right away so I'm going to return the Lepage and see if I can find something else before I start. Thanks on the Roxul info. The place I saw the Safe'n'Sound at is one of the main dealers locally for Roxul so I'm thinking they will probably have the AFB. If not, it's good to know there's no big difference between them. So much to learn here. I just found out pcf means pounds per cubic foot. I've been staring blankly at the insulation specs wondering what to buy. I feel better now. The help here is invaluable. Thanks again, Frank

Well I found a Butyl-based acoustic caulking at a paint store. The only other kinds available anywhere else were Mono and Lepage's and they are both on the no-no list. The kind I found was Mulco Acoustik I ordered some and should have it on Tuesday which is fine cuz I have a gig in Whitehorse this weekend. They also are able to get the backer rod. I'm assuming you need a lot of this stuff. It comes in a big rolled up piece in a box but I'm not sure how long the piece is. I'll get the specs tomorrow and order some. What's a decent price for this stuff? The first 20 sheets of drywall arrived so I can get started.

i got some backer rod from here http://www.loghelp.com/backerod.html these prices are better than home depot. HD sells 30 feet of 3/8 for around $4, while this place sells 100 feet for $5. the shipping was kind of a lot because of the bulk. i bought 1000 feet of 1/4 and the shipping was around $14 (almost added 50% to the cost) ... it was shipped on a cardboard spool in a large box. but service was good and delivery prompt i may get some 3/8 from them too. hth dan

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

i got some backer rod . . . service was good and delivery prompt . . .

Great stuff! You should add your experience with the seller to your post in Building Products about those guys. 8)

Thanks Dan, That gives me some idea of what to expect when they phone tomorrow with the price. The Home Depot here didn't even know what I was asking aboput when I asked for backing rod. They apparently didn't have it . Frank

Frank, according to this page (and others), "Storage matters. Store drywall panels flat on the floor to prevent bending or breaking."

Thanks Sharward, I took care of that . Thanks for noticing. I'll post a picture for proof when I get some more batteries. :wink: Frank

bondsong wrote:

Home Depot here didn't even know what I was asking aboput when I asked for backing rod.

look near the weatherstripping near the window/door section

Thanks Dan, This forum is unbelievable for the amount of help I've received in a very short time. I know some of the questions are too obvious but if you don't get them answered it just brings things to a standstill sometimes. So thanks again for all the input. Frank

No problem, Frank -- we're just overwhelmed with guilt from all the free advice we've received here, so now we're "paying it forward" whenever we can! :lol: