Kendale's Studio

Aloha Michael,

Did you leave the backs of the absorber panels open? Meaning are they constructed with a 2X4 fame and no back plywood applied to the side facing your walls?

If you are refering to front soffit units, they are completely enclosed - front, back, sides, top & bottom. This approach was taken because of the "temporary" location and least invasive damage to the house. The side absorbers are also enclosed in the back. One thing to consider is the weight of the acoustical treatment used. Are you on the ground floor?

How much would you guess your cloud weighs?

I would guess 60-75 lbs. Looking forward to your project. :D Aloha 8)

Kendale, I don't think this is OT but I've noticed that everybody mounts their ceiling clouds from chains/wires/rope etc. I know there should be an air space between the absorbant material and the ceiling. My question is does this need to be open around the edges like yours? I was going to make my cloud frame out of 1x6 and then use 4" mineral wool in it, and then flush mount it to the ceiling. I'd have an air gap between the back of the insulation and the ceiling but it most of the perimeter would be up against the ceiling. Do this make things better or worse? Thanks for the intrusion. len

from what i know (which aint much), a different size air gap will mean that different frequencies are affected. the larger the air gap, the lower the frequency affected. which brings me to my question: would it make more sense to angle the cloud so that the air gap is varied and the cloud affects a range of frequencies instead of just one? seems to me that if you don't vary the air gap then certain frequencies will be cut, similar to using eq. this would then create a "hole" in your room frequency response. any merit to this? as far as flush mounting the cloud, i have seen instances where a user drilled holes in the frame so the sound could enter from the sides as well, effectively increasing the surface area of the insulation that is exposed, and increasing the overall absorption. although at a novice glance it would make more sense to have an air gap and although it would lower the overall weight of the cloud, i doubt drilling holes in the frame is very safe.

Aloha, Hey guys. Thanks for asking. :wink: When I got to the point of hanging the cloud, I posted a similar question (page 10, 7 posts down.) Here's the response I got from Steve:

Assumptions - Drawing is somewhat to scale Clouds have no solid backs behind absorbent In that case, pic 2 would be better, because geometrically it "hides" more of the vaulted ceiling - if you draw lines from speaker to UN-treated ceiling behind the mix position, there's a possibility of reflections back to the mix position (as shown) and Pic 2 comes closer to absorbing these reflections. Moving the cloud rearward a bit might take care of this; if not, a second one above and to the rear may be necessary - something like this...Steve

I had initially wanted the rear edge to be up against the ceiling, which would give the front about 12" of a drop. Given that the eye hooks were 6" long, it got to be pretty tough turning, so we ended up leaving them about an inch longer. Add to that the 3" carabineer (two of them in the front), 8" cloud hook, and then 12" of chain to level it off, we ended up with about 18" of a drop in the front. Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Good day Kendale,

One thing to consider is the weight of the acoustical treatment used. Are you on the ground floor?

I am actually on the second floor of a Class A Office building. This part of the cinder block building is directly over a parking lot. I am located in a corner of the building and next door to my suite is a suite used solely for storage; no one works there! My control room measures 20' L by 12' W by 8 1/2' H. I am thinking of building soffit wall and absorber walls like your pictures. How much weight would you estimate these walls weigh in your studio? I am a little concerned about the additional weight load in my case. Thanks again for your comments and advice. Michael :shock:

kendale, gotcha. my computer was fried and couldn't see any images before. :oops: didn't see that your ceiling was slanted, giving you broad band frequency response from your cloud.

Aloha :D Michael wrote:

I am actually on the second floor of a Class A Office building. This part of the cinder block building is directly over a parking lot. I am located in a corner of the building and next door to my suite is a suite used solely for storage; no one works there! My control room measures 20' L by 12' W by 8 1/2' H. I am thinking of building soffit wall and absorber walls like your pictures. How much weight would you estimate these walls weigh in your studio? I am a little concerned about the additional weight load in my case.

One bit of advice that keeps reoccurring here regarding the weight issue, is to get an inspection/approval from a structural engineer. That way you'll know for sure what you are able to do, and will have the peace of mind knowing that its safe and legal. I ended up building panels 1/4 of the size prescribed here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm and they ended up weighing in at about 60 lbs a unit, not to mention the weight of the front wall unit, equipment rack, fully loaded bookshelf, console, instruments, and occupants. :shock: Choose wisely and be safe :wink: Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Hi Kendale, I just wanted to join in and say that your cloud is absolutely stunning and beautiful. I am as jealous as everyone else. You're very skilled.

Aloha Kathy, Thanks for stopping in :D From the look of things on your studio build, you're not doing too badly there, yourself, eh? Great job on the drum riser! :wink: Aloha 8)

Aloha, A little off-topic update: I had a chance to visit a Woodcraft store over on Oahu a couple of weeks ago, and in talking with the store owner, got turned onto a line of tools by Festool, namely the TS 55 EQ Portable circular plunge-cut saw with guide rail. This tool system is amazing! If I had had this tool while building the studio treatments, it would have saved me ton of time and aggravation and it's well worth the investment, in my opinion. (I picked up the TS 55 EQ and the Multifunction table MFT 1080 package.) It's a little on the pricey side, but if you have the chance to check it out, I would highly recommend it! http://www.festoolusa.com/catalog.aspx Aloha 8) Bring the accuracy of a panel saw to any site with the TS 55 saw and guide rail system. This combination provides straight, splinter-free cuts on both sides of the blade right out of the box. Unlike conventional pendulum-cover circular saws, Festool’s design allows the saw blade to retract into the housing giving you the option to start and end the cut accurately anywhere on the material. All of this innovation means a quicker, safer and more cost-effective precision tool. The dust extraction port ensures less dust and a clear view of the workpiece. Saw close to edges, cut apertures and false joints, and cut to length. For solid wood, fine veneered panels and sheet goods of all kinds, plastic, and aluminum. - Comfortable, precise, and safe, thanks to guided saw blade with plunge-cut principle - Quick and easy cutting depth adjustment - Bevel unit allows you to swivel the blade by up to 45 degrees on the guide rail for clean cut edges even on bevel cuts - Detachable Plug-it cord, if the cord gets damaged, just plug in a new one yourself - Rotating dust extractor connector, easy to adjust the dust extraction to suit your work - Spring-loaded riving knife, retracts into the housing automatically during plunge cuts - MMC electronics with 6 control and monitoring functions, including soft start, constant speed under load, stepless speed adjustment, temperature and current-triggered overload protection - FastFix saw blade changing system for easy blade change - Triple motor bearing, improves running smoothness and extends service life - Zero-play guidance, adjust the saw base on the guide rail without tools - Splinterguard on both sides of the cut, guide rail rubber splinterguard on one side, attachable plastic splinter guard on the other side of the blade

Kendale - I have a question for you. I rather like your idea of "modular" and removable CR treatments. I plan to do something somewhat similiar. My question is, are the soffit bass traps fully enclosed (except the front)? If so, why did you choose to do that? Thanks a ton! Gunnar edit - BTW - I really like what you've done! It has really inspired me. Thank you!

Aloha Gunnar, Hey, glad you found the project helpful.:wink:

I have a question for you. I rather like your idea of "modular" and removable CR treatments. I plan to do something somewhat similiar. My question is, are the soffit bass traps fully enclosed (except the front)? If so, why did you choose to do that?

Yes, the soffit wall is fully enclosed: top, bottom, back & sides. In fact, each section - left soffit, center section, and right soffit - was planned, built, and fully enclosed individually, and then screwed and caulked together. Makes for pretty solid unit. :shock: Why? Several reasons, actually. For easing the initial capital outlays, visualizing the design, construction phases, and for being the least invasive to the existing interior area, it was planned out and then built in sections. And truth be known, partly because of my ignorance of the design and how it actually works. :oops: :lol: :roll: This was the first time I had attempted anything like this. I had spent about a year studying, designing and re-designing the treatments as I began to learn some of the principles involved. I also had to hire out some of the cutting of the sheet goods because at that time, I did not own a table saw or circular saw with guide rails. This also added to the cost of the project. But hey, it works, looks and sounds great! :D Looking forward to pics of your project! Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

Aloha, Help! I've fallen off the first page and I can't get up! :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: Actually, I've been busy finishing up a nine month CD project, and haven't done much work on the studio other than a few cable repairs. Had a couple of friends over to check out the studio. He brought over a pretty wide range of stuff to listen to, everything from DJ Tiesto to John Williams to Qunicy Jones. They were really impressed with the sound stage and the level of pure listening enjoyment they experienced. Pretty cool. Oh yeah, got a few more tools for the wish list, Keith. :wink: The name Festool is unfamiliar to most U.S. woodworkers, but the company is well-known in Europe where it has been in the power-tool business for about 70 years. Aloha 8)

Spendy stuff; IIRC, just the jig saw runs around $280 :? Still, it's OK to drool, as long as you don't do it while the power's plugged in :lol:

If there's any brand of tools that I can recommend it's FESTOOL! I've been working with their tools for a couple of years and there's none that compare in quality, sturdiness and the actual lifetime of the tools is just amazing. for example, when fastening gypsum to a ceiling/wall there's a special feature that make sure you don't brake the outer layer of the gypsum AND it gets perfect every single time, it's definitely worth the extra $$. best andreas

Aloha Steve, Hey, it's good to hear from you. Spendy? Well, yes; but still cheaper than a room at the Four Seasons Resort. :wink: I picked up the TS 55 EQ Circular Saw and Multi Function Table. The difference in the time it takes to set up a cut is amazing. What was taking me 15 minutes to set up and cut a panel on the table saw is now taking only 5. And the soft start feature is really comfortable and easy to get used to. Wish I had this thing at the beginning of the project! I am hoping to pick up the dust extractor and Random Orbit 150 E sander next. Here's hoping (and drooling!) Aloha 8)

Aloha again, Hey, I just noticed we've reached 20k+ views. 8) Thanks guys! :D Aloha 8)

taa-taaa! you're welcome :roll: aloha

Aloha, Small update: The first CD Project in the "new and improved" studio is a wrap. The client was extremely happy with how the mixes transferred to his car, home and shop systems. Again, many thanks to John, Steve and the rest of y'all who have contributed, encouraged and followed the project. Aloha 8)

Ahhhh, when the rubber meets the road...................... 8)

Hey, that's great to hear Kendale! That's really a MAJOR achievment. Most of us that have had studios with no thought of acoustical treatments know what it's like to have that "mix" slammin' in the studio, but when you play it in your car or on "someone else's" system, it just doesn't have the same "punch". (Escpecially when you stick a different (pre-manufactured) CD in right after yours) Thing I ALWAYS hated doing was the ol'..."Well, uh, it's not quite finished yet...I have to go back and blah blah blah blah"... Excuses excuses!...I've always felt unless it's someone that understands the recording process, when you hand a CD over to someone to listen to, the CD should speak for itself. No "Introduction excuses" are needed. Hopefully as we all get to finish our studios the "right way", we can have confidence like you Kendale and excuses will be a thing of the past. *Clarification* This DOES take into consideration a mix that has NOT been mastered, HOWEVER, in my opinion the mix should still be "close". Congrats on your hard-well-earned work that paid off !

you have one thing i was wondering about. i notice the cabinets to the left , behing the mixing board. i need to have some storage cabinets also (a compromise with the Mrs. to be able to build a studio). any problems they have caused, or anything i should look for when building them?

you have one thing i was wondering about. i notice the cabinets to the left , behing the mixing board. i need to have some storage cabinets also (a compromise with the Mrs. to be able to build a studio). any problems they have caused, or anything i should look for when building them?

Aloha phil, Thanks for asking. Here's a complilation of some of the advice Steve (Knightfly) suggested way back when it all started: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ght=#15598

The glass in front and behind should be causing you all sorts of flutter echo - Monitors should NOT sit on the console but behind, placed on heavy decoupled stands - console placement causes early reflection problems in most cases, unless the console is slanted down in front a LOT. Distance to wall behind speakers will change response drastically - there is a wall bounce calculator on the Acoustics forum that's fun to play with (needs Excel) Moving either speakers or your head by as little as an inch or two can sometimes make drastic changes in response, due to modal peaks and dips... 42" stands are almost perfectly WRONG for your application - that would put the centers of your woofers almost exactly at HALF your ceiling height when close to the wall, which would cause a fairly deep null in response at around 70 and 212 hZ, and peaks at around 140 and 280 hZ. If you pulled the speaker location away from the wall enough, you could get them out of that dead center vertical location - Although you didn't mention which way the ceiling slopes - I'm hoping it's up to your rear as you face the speakers? IN the pic, those two light areas on either side of the console - are those from lights, or is there a door on one side? Those two corners should have some corner traps as one of the first things you do. Here's a page with some DIY ideas on traps, and their suggested locations within a rectangular room - http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm Room height for the calculator should be taken at the speaker location - Left/right room symmetry (at least within a foot or two of ear height) is important for good stereo imaging, and that glass-faced cabinet can't be helping - if there is any way to move it more to your rear... For your application, a movable panel about 4" thick would help the wall unit "disappear" acoustically - it could be moved against a wall somewhere when not in use. Same for the front wall (behind the speakers) - and again behind you, if that's a glass surface.

You can find a pic of the cabinet absorber about two thirds the way down the page here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=180 Hope this helps, Aloha 8)

it looks like it's going to help alot! i'll let you know ....thanks!

Earthquake update: As some of you may have heard, Hawaii got hit with a series of earthquakes/aftershocks on Sunday October 15, 2006. The first one hit at 7:07am and registered 6.7 on the Richter Scale, followed 7 minutes later by a large after shock of 6.0. There have been over 50 smaller quakes/tremors since then, and more continuing on today. As best as I can tell, our home is okay. There are some new stress marks and cracked drywall and eaves, we lost about half of our everyday glassware, and just about all of our artwork came down. But the post/pier/pilings look okay and there doesnʼt seem to be any visible signs of damage to the structure. We are planning on having someone inspect the structure as soon as they are available. The studio managed to ride out the worst of it fairly well, although the 200 lb+ mixer/console slid around a little. Unfortunately, there are others on the island that havenʼt fared as well, with some considerable structural damage occurring, with a couple of homes burning down due to gas leaks. The quake knocked out power all across the state. We got our power back in about 4 hours, but some are still waiting for service to resume and stabilize. There's a few pix and stories here: http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/index.html and here: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/rec ... 52_eqs.php So at the moment, things have settled down a bit and weʼll see what other damage might reveal itself in the next few days. Rockin' & rollin' Hawaiian style :shock: Aloha 8)