cost??

no its a simple question, i want to soundproof a room so i can play drums 24/7 in a condominium building, if i did this as cheaply as possible (while still reaching my goal), how much could it realistically cost?

There's no way you can play drums 24/7 in the first place. Your arms will hurt after a few hours. Plus: if you want to do that, you want REALLY REALLY REALLY good soundproofing. That just doesn't come cheap. Read more about it or even better: just go ahead and do it cheap. Then read more about it and slap your head because you just spended money on something that doesn't work. I've spent months reading up on this forum and others. Still planning. And willing to spend the money, so I'll be able to play drums at regular hours without neighbours complaining. And that means concrete floating floors, double walls, a lot of insulation etc. etc. I'm very happy with the advice I get at places like this forum. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question to start with... :roll: Cheers, Rob p.s. You don't seem to care about much huh? I don't care about you or your neighbours.

see when someone wants to know the range of what something could cost, for the minimum you have to assume the minimum (within reason), instead of $2,000 for hardwood floor, lets save a bundle and just lay down carpet since this won't be in a basement.

Your first post requested soundproof from neighbours, including downstairs. We are giving you that advice. If you are serious about getting info, then write a new first post including current construction, neighbour locations etc, and post it on a new thread topic. Andre

Hey, stebed, I gave you the itemized costs....you don't want hardwood floor, use a calculator and subtract. You don't need a patch bay...subtract it. What's so hard to understand? I'm building a studio in a 15X25 space...so those are the costs I am working with. I'm not your f*ing contractor, so figure it out yourself. Now that I understand that you want to play drums 24/7 in a condo let me offer you this advice. Don't bother....just get to know your neighbours, and work out a time to play. You'll never be able to soundproof for drums 24/7 in a condo construction, not if you're having trouble with a $10K budget. I've done the research...I lived in a townhouse and nearly built a studio there. Couldn't make it work, and bought a single familiy home instead. If you want to save yourself further aggravation get yourself informed. Become familiar with the following terms:

1. STC (Sound Transmission Class) 2. TL (Transmission Loss) in particular at low frequencies (like kick drum) 3. Decoupling (importance of air gaps) 4. Mass Law 5. Flanking sound 6. Structure borne noise (i.e. vibrations from your shared concrete slab)

Here's a few equations to toy with. The dB of SPL for the edge of perception in an untreated room is around 30-40 dB. So, if you want your neighbours to sleep soundly while you're pouding the drums, you want <30 dB SPL at their beds. Inside your drum room (which remember has stiff walls and no acoustic treatment) the level could be between 110-120 dB depending on your drums and how hard you hit. STC of a very effective room-with-a-room construction is 63. So, on the other side of your construction, you get say 50-60 dB. Here's a db chart for reference:

Sounds dB SPL Rocket Launching 180 Jet Engine 140 Thunderclap, Air Raid Siren 1 Meter 130 Jet takeoff (200 ft) 120 Rock Concert, Discotheque 110 Firecrackers, Subway Train 100 Heavy Truck (15 Meter), City Traffic 90 Alarm Clock (1 Meter), Hair Dryer 80 Noisy Restaurant, Business Office 70 Air Conditioning Unit, Conversational Speech 60 Light Traffic (50 Meter), Average Home 50 Living Room, Quiet Office 40 Library, Soft Whisper (5 Meter) 30 Broadcasting Studio, Rustling Leaves 20 Hearing Threshold 0

So, at 50 dB we might be at the edge of acceptable...and even then probably not enough to satisfy your neighbours if you want to play every night. The tolerance of your neighbours is a huge variable here. Better to shoot for 40dB. So, you think sure I'll make an STC 70 wall (just try and find one)...sure, a fine idea (in theory), but you'll soon learn that low frequencies get through your walls much easier than high frequencies, and the the TL at 80 Hz (where the power of the kick is) will be something like 30 dB lower than the STC rating. So, your neighbours will hear the low frequencies at around 70-80 dB (assuming an STC 70 wall). Just when you think that's bad enough, then you will learn just how hard it is to make a room to an STC of 70. In particular, look a ceiling and floor constructions to avoid structure borne noise and flanking sound. So, you float your floors, and build your walls on the floated floors, then build your ceiling on the floated walls. I hope you have high ceilings because you just lost almost 1 foot by doing this! All this, and you still get 70 dB at low frequencies...your neighbours are still unhappy. You have 3 choices: 1. Change your expectations...play during times when your neighbours aren't going to complain 2. Buy a set of V-drums.... 3. Move... Kris PS: Since you have existing walls, you will actually need to tear off the drywall on one side, stuff it with insulation, and put another layer of drywall on the outer face of the existing wall in order to get the double wall concept to work effectively. Otherwise you end up with a 3 leaf system (one more term to research).

drfrankencopter wrote:

Hey, stebed, I gave you the itemized costs....you don't want hardwood floor, use a calculator and subtract. You don't need a patch bay...subtract it. What's so hard to understand? I'm building a studio in a 15X25 space...so those are the costs I am working with. I'm not your f*ing contractor, so figure it out yourself.

i thought you were saying that these were costs i would run into :) btw, whats the point of the *?

Now that I understand that you want to play drums 24/7 in a condo let me offer you this advice. Don't bother....just get to know your neighbours, and work out a time to play. You'll never be able to soundproof for drums 24/7 in a condo construction, not if you're having trouble with a $10K budget. I've done the research...I lived in a townhouse and nearly built a studio there. Couldn't make it work, and bought a single familiy home instead.

thats assuming their beds are right outside my practice room, not only is it highly unlikely that my practice room would be sharing a wall with one of their bedrooms, i'd probably make sure that whatever condo i bought, that the room wouldnt share any walls with a neighbor period, except for floor and maybe ceiling. in my apartment right now on one side i have the outter building wall, on the other side i have the hallway, on the other side i have a stairwell and the other side i have an elevator shaft, and im on the top floor. its great, i can blast my music and never bother anyone, just turn the sub down at night

Just when you think that's bad enough, then you will learn just how hard it is to make a room to an STC of 70. In particular, look a ceiling and floor constructions to avoid structure borne noise and flanking sound. So, you float your floors, and build your walls on the floated floors, then build your ceiling on the floated walls. I hope you have high ceilings because you just lost almost 1 foot by doing this! All this, and you still get 70 dB at low frequencies...your neighbours are still unhappy. You have 3 choices: 1. Change your expectations...play during times when your neighbours aren't going to complain 2. Buy a set of V-drums.... 3. Move...

[/quote] well i already have ddrums, and yes whatever condo i bought would have a minimum of 9 foot ceilings. whats most likely is that i would buy a condo with 11-15 foot ceilings because i love high ceilings. this would also be handy for the practice room because it would really open up the possibilities. one place i was looking at had a mezzanine, the back wall was shared with the hallway, one wall was an exterior wall, one wall was shared with the neighbors bathroom, and the ceiling was shared with the upstairs neighbors kitchen, pantry and entry. under the mezzanine would have been my kitchen, pantry, and entry.. now tell me that wouldn't make it much easier to soundproof to not bother neighbors? since i haven't purchased my condo yet i have the luxury of choosing a unit that is more ideal for this type of project.

thats assuming their beds are right outside my practice room, not only is it highly unlikely that my practice room would be sharing a wall with one of their bedrooms,

You are not geting it because you are being blind. Flanking and sturcture borne noise don't need adjacent spaces to be problems. Drfrankencopter gave a list of things you have to familiar with, inculding these two items. People are trying to help you. Andre

stebed, You really need to watch out for the structure borne noise...it's going to be the limiting factor. Another thing to consider is that even if your neighbours don't sleep in a room adjacent to your practice room, that they will not likely have built their rooms to be soundproofed at all. Figure STC of 15 max for a standard construction room wall with a typical hollow core door. Odds are, if it's not a bedroom or bathroom it has no door, and therefore very low STC. Shared floor and ceiling are big problems....worse than shared walls in terms of expense. Do some googling on 'footfall noise' and ceiling construction, and you'll turn up solutions like floated concrete floors, and isolation hangars... Since you haven't bought yet, what's the point in discussing cost? If your ceiling height is 9 feet versus 15 feet strongly influences the cost of drywall and lumber. Build requirements are huge variables....if you can get away without requireing a floated construction you save big money. If not, be prepared to spend, or be unsatisfied.... K

BTW - you also need to ascertain whether the new building can take the weight of the new construction. I'm sure the structural engineer didn't allow for another whole floating room with additional weight in the original design. cheers john

drfrankencopter wrote:

stebed, You really need to watch out for the structure borne noise...it's going to be the limiting factor. Another thing to consider is that even if your neighbours don't sleep in a room adjacent to your practice room, that they will not likely have built their rooms to be soundproofed at all. Figure STC of 15 max for a standard construction room wall with a typical hollow core door. Odds are, if it's not a bedroom or bathroom it has no door, and therefore very low STC.

right but there are also massive amounts of air between these walls, i could have my room setup at the end of my condo against an outter wall and their bedroom could be at the opposite end of their condo, there easily be 70 feet and four walls between my kick drum and their pillows. and i don't know what you guys are doing but i'm telling you, the sound proof rooms ive been in, if you were 15 feet down the hallway you couldn't hear a sound coming from the rooms, only when you were at the door. unless my room shares a wall with my neighbors bedroom i really don't see how thats going to be a problem. i would imagine the biggest problem would be the floor.

Since you haven't bought yet, what's the point in discussing cost? If your ceiling height is 9 feet versus 15 feet strongly influences the cost of drywall and lumber. Build requirements are huge variables....if you can get away without requireing a floated construction you save big money. If not, be prepared to spend, or be unsatisfied.... K

[/quote] to get an idea of whether or not its something worth considering.

John Sayers wrote:

BTW - you also need to ascertain whether the new building can take the weight of the new construction. I'm sure the structural engineer didn't allow for another whole floating room with additional weight in the original design. cheers john

the condos im looking at are generally soft lofts in renovated industrial buildings, i'm sure they can handle some extra lumber and drywall

After reading all this and understanding that you can't seem to get YOUR head around this advice, I would first (as mentioned above) educate yourself about what you would be dealing with and maybe consider buying a pre-fab building (warehouse type) out in the middle of the woods somewhere with no neighbors and adapting your living space to your needs.

i could have my room setup at the end of my condo against an outter wall and their bedroom could be at the opposite end of their condo, there easily be 70 feet and four walls between my kick drum and their pillows.

And they could be deaf, and then it's no big deal eh? What about downstairs and upstairs neigbours, do they have the luxury of 70 feet of space (that's a pretty big condo too...my house is only 35 feet long). Also, if there's no door in your neighbours place (other than their bedroom door, which may or may not be closed when they sleep), then its only air thats attenuating sound, and not by too much (inverse square law...6dB drop for every doubling of distance..less for a plane source, which your adjacent wall to the neighbours would be). At any rate, its likely neighbours below you who are going to be pissed of the most....you're right in that the floor is going to be the toughest part (ceiling next). I'm outta this thread... K

Stebed wrote:

John Sayers wrote: BTW - you also need to ascertain whether the new building can take the weight of the new construction. I'm sure the structural engineer didn't allow for another whole floating room with additional weight in the original design. cheers john the condos im looking at are generally soft lofts in renovated industrial buildings, i'm sure they can handle some extra lumber and drywall John,

I'm going to apologize to you in advance for this post......... however I can't keep my mouth shut any longer. Hey Stebed, I can't figure you out - seeing as you have all the answers - why are you asking questions? You came onto this site and have been nothing shy of confrontational and rude. You have people offering you assistance and you throw mud at them. No matter what anyone says in assistance - you have some smart ass remark to make in reply. Why don't you (seeing as you are obviously brilliant) just go throw a few grand in some friggen room and be done with it. You don't understand a friggen thing about sound isolation (that's obvious from your posts) and could very well overload your existing structure without even realizing it.............. but nope - another smart ass reply - after all it's just a couple of studs and some drywall. Oh - by the way - have you figured out how much extra mass you're going to require because of what you lose with the 3 leaf wall/ceiling/floor systems you're going to have? 2 layers aren't going to get it done - and you can't lose the sheets already installed as a part of your fire wall assembly............ Oh - by the way - this condo - have you checked the condo regulations yet to see if you can even do this? After all - adding weight and structure to your floors effects things that you don't own when you buy the condo. Those floor joists you're loading up on top of - you don't own then - the ceiling joists you're adding drywall to - you don't own those either. You need the permission of the condo association in order to do anything that effects them. Believe me - the condo association WILL require a structural engineer to sign off on anything you want to do before they let you do it........... You only own from the finished face of drywall to finished face of drywall......... anything you touch beyond that is common property owned by the condo association........... But I'm sure you already knew all of that - after all - you're brilliant - more brilliant than anyone here......... Hey - why don't you go open up your own web-site - you can tell people how to do sound isolation like the pro's for pennies on the dollar.......... That would be preferable to you wasting John's bandwidth and then spitting in his face in the process. Sincerely, Rod

rod gervais wrote:

Stebed wrote:

John Sayers wrote: BTW - you also need to ascertain whether the new building can take the weight of the new construction. I'm sure the structural engineer didn't allow for another whole floating room with additional weight in the original design. cheers john the condos im looking at are generally soft lofts in renovated industrial buildings, i'm sure they can handle some extra lumber and drywall John,

I'm going to apologize to you in advance for this post......... however I can't keep my mouth shut any longer. Hey Stebed, I can't figure you out - seeing as you have all the answers - why are you asking questions? You came onto this site and have been nothing shy of confrontational and rude. You have people offering you assistance and you throw mud at them. No matter what anyone says in assistance - you have some smart ass remark to make in reply. Why don't you (seeing as you are obviously brilliant) just go throw a few grand in some friggen room and be done with it. You don't understand a friggen thing about sound isolation (that's obvious from your posts) and could very well overload your existing structure without even realizing it.............. but nope - another smart ass reply - after all it's just a couple of studs and some drywall. Oh - by the way - have you figured out how much extra mass you're going to require because of what you lose with the 3 leaf wall/ceiling/floor systems you're going to have? 2 layers aren't going to get it done - and you can't lose the sheets already installed as a part of your fire wall assembly............ Oh - by the way - this condo - have you checked the condo regulations yet to see if you can even do this? After all - adding weight and structure to your floors effects things that you don't own when you buy the condo. Those floor joists you're loading up on top of - you don't own then - the ceiling joists you're adding drywall to - you don't own those either. You need the permission of the condo association in order to do anything that effects them. Believe me - the condo association WILL require a structural engineer to sign off on anything you want to do before they let you do it........... You only own from the finished face of drywall to finished face of drywall......... anything you touch beyond that is common property owned by the condo association........... But I'm sure you already knew all of that - after all - you're brilliant - more brilliant than anyone here......... Hey - why don't you go open up your own web-site - you can tell people how to do sound isolation like the pro's for pennies on the dollar.......... That would be preferable to you wasting John's bandwidth and then spitting in his face in the process. Sincerely, Rod

you're an idiot

stebed wrote:

you're an idiot

You're right - I am an idiot, and I see how proudly you stand by my side................. :wink: Interesting thing that you couldn't respond to any of the issues I raised in my post - except to say that............ shows deep thought on your part. Get a life - you have all the answers - leave the nice people here alone - they deserve better than what you give them. Sincerely, Rod

damn...this kid is an asshole...got to be a kid with the ignorant, childish respones...but i'm shocked that the community even gave him the time of day after his first few responses...i give y'all alot more credit now...you're good peoples...

Rod, as I've said before YOU ARE THE MAN!

Rod, you're my favorite idiot. :lol:

Stebed, Your future neighbors have my condolences...you sorry sot.

Thankyou Rod - well said. cheers john

I have to say, this guy is an ingrate and more than a little clueless. I just bought a house and am thinking of building something in the back yard. Seeing how much energy the community put into such a twit is encouraging. If you treat morons this well... Anyway, I totally appreciate all of the free advice I've read. Thanks for a great forum.

Amen!

Holy s!#$. I was just looking for the link to buying some door seals and stumbled on this. You guys are some nice people for even responding after his first few posts. I thank everyone for all you've helped me with and will be thanking you with a donation when I finish my studio. Right now I'm "wasting" every penny insulating, caulking, drywalling etc. Later. Tim

Wow! I just happened to find this thread over 7 years later, and I have to admit I'm sitting here with my jaw on the floor... :shock: For two reasons: First, for the blatant, unrepentant ignorance and unmitigated arrogance shown by the OP, and second for the incredibly controlled and useful replies posted by everyone, despite the continued "river in Egypt" syndrome. Even when he is righteously angry, Rod still keeps his cool, and responds in just the right measure. Amazing. I'm glad I wasn't a moderator back when this guy came on: I might not have controlled my temperament as well as the rest of you did. But I'm really, really curious as to whatever happened to this studio build: :) :shot: I wonder how much he actually spent in the end, and how happy the neighbors are with the result... (But I think we all know the answers...) - Stuart -

I'm his neighbour! I bought this headphone and i'm really happy as you can see in the picture! Okok, i'm an idiot! :mrgreen: Bye! (PS: respect for your courtesy and calm)

I was trying to cut corners just like this person. I just wanted to build a professional vocal booth in a condo environment. So far I've spent close to 12k on this studio with no end in sight. I'm thankful for buying this place bank owned. 3k in floating floors, permit fees, code inspections... etc. The master electrician alone cost more than the actual material used, and don't forget to factor costs for wasted material. The tools required to do the work I purchased cheap, some broke. The money I tried to save by not purchasing plastic to keep the dust out... I've spent in can-of-air, and many wipe canisters. I didn't know that the HOA practically was the judge and jury for this project as well. Having been through that nightmare, I'm starting over. Now that I have saved up another 12K from my Income tax return, I will read the posts on this site to help fix the mistakes I've already made. Hopefully this kid actually listened to the advice.