Hi I'm thinking of soundproofing a room to play my drums in, play with my friends and record (nothing too fancy), I've browsed through this site a lot and found a ton of info but still have no idea what a project like this could realistically/potentially cost.
I'm only at the 'thinking about maybe doing it sometime in the next year' phase, I've been looking at purchasing a condo for some time now and would like your opinions on how feasible it would be to take a spare bedroom say 15x25x10 and soundproof it enough that I could play 24/7 and never bother my nextdoor, downstairs, or upstairs neighbors? Right now I practice at home with a $2500 ddrum and my friends and I spend $3600 a year renting a rehearsal space..
So without getting specific what is a realistic range of price that such a project could cost (im in montreal quebec if that matters), just so I can get an idea if its even worth pursuing or not.. i don't want to know what to buy or how to do it, i'm not asking for an estimate, all i want is a ballpark range.. right now it could cost $100 or $100,000, i have no idea. thanks!
cost??
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 3721.
It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense.
If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft.
cheers
john
heh so $18,750 to $75,000 for a standard 18x20 room? i'm not that stupid, anyone else have an answer?It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense. If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft. cheers john
er 15x25heh so $18,750 to $75,000 for a standard 18x20 room? i'm not that stupid, anyone else have an answer?It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense. If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft. cheers john
John gave you as an accurate an answer as possible with what you provided. Andreheh so $18,750 to $75,000 for a standard 18x20 room? i'm not that stupid, anyone else have an answer?It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense. If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft. cheers john
there's no way it costs $20,000 to $75,000 to soundproof a small room. thats ridiculousJohn gave you as an accurate an answer as possible with what you provided. Andreheh so $18,750 to $75,000 for a standard 18x20 room? i'm not that stupid, anyone else have an answer?It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense. If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft. cheers john
well, lay out how much it should cost, according to your specs and prove why that's too expensive. I personally think that John is right on the money.
Change 'sound proof' to 'sound reduction' and you'll save a whole heap of cash. If you're looking to buy a place that you can also practice in, consider ground floor. That will be a lot cheaper to soundproof (even then it will still cost you some)
John gave you as an accurate an answer as possible with what you provided. Andreheh so $18,750 to $75,000 for a standard 18x20 room? i'm not that stupid, anyone else have an answer?It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense. If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft. cheers john
Actually it is not rediculous. It seems as if by reading your original post that you want to be able to play/record 24/7. This my friend is not an easy thing to attain. John is right on the money with his answer. Have a proper studio designer(such as John) design your studio. Spend the money getting the paperwork passed through your city(more fun). Find a competent contractor who actually knows how to construct regarding soundproofing and you'll see it is not cheap nor easy to do these projects. Just for grins have some hack cabinetmaker come in to quote a complete remodel on something simple like a kitchen and see how much that costs. I think you are going to be stunned. And just think that kitchen would just be mostly aesthetics with no regards to soundproofing. When you are done doing the above research let us all know here on the board how cheap and easy it was! Good luck, Doug Owensthere's no way it costs $20,000 to $75,000 to soundproof a small room. thats ridiculous
anyone that pays $75,000 to soundproof a small room should immediately kill themselves. honestly, i kind of expected these kind of replies, it was the same thing when i posted in rec.audio.pro asking about equipment needed to record live band demos.. if i listened to them i woulda spent $10,000 on mics, preamps, room treatments, etc.. (the bare minimums according to many of them), instead i ignored them all and spent $1000 and things sound great, probably better than their recordings.. there's no way it costs a minimum of $20,000 to soundproof a room. im not building a state of the art studio with a control room etc.. just a friggin soundproof box with ventilation (like i originally stated, soundproof enough to not bother neighbors). anyways, clearly this forum is useless, im just going to find someone local who's done it. thanks for tryingActually it is not rediculous. It seems as if by reading your original post that you want to be able to play/record 24/7. This my friend is not an easy thing to attain. John is right on the money with his answer. Have a proper studio designer(such as John) design your studio. Spend the money getting the paperwork passed through your city(more fun). Find a competent contractor who actually knows how to construct regarding soundproofing and you'll see it is not cheap nor easy to do these projects. Just for grins have some hack cabinetmaker come in to quote a complete remodel on something simple like a kitchen and see how much that costs. I think you are going to be stunned. And just think that kitchen would just be mostly aesthetics with no regards to soundproofing. When you are done doing the above research let us all know here on the board how cheap and easy it was! Good luck, Doug Owensthere's no way it costs $20,000 to $75,000 to soundproof a small room. thats ridiculousJohn gave you as an accuurate an answer as posoible with what you provided. Andreheh so $18,750 to $75,000 for a standard 18x20 room? i'm not that stupid, anyone else have an answer?It depends on whether you do the work or an outside contractor - labour is the greatest expense. If you do it yourself it would cost around $50- $80/sqft - a contractor maybe $150-200/sqft. cheers john
Have a nice day. :roll:..anyways, clearly this forum is useless, im just going to find someone local who's done it. thanks for trying
I dont doubt John's quote. I'm sure soundproofing it very expensive. But surely there is an inexpensive way to reduce sound levels without remortgaging?
In all professions there is a right and proper way to do things regardless of cost. If I went to a top-rate mechanic, the best dentist in the country and the finest chiropractor, I'd be broke in a week. But you make do with your budget, your expectations and your realistic needs.
listen if someone asks me how much it costs to redo their kitchen i'll tell them they can tear the old stuff down themselves, go to ikea, pick inexpensive cupboards and cabinets, go to home depot, get some flooring tiles, floor boards and paint, do all the work themselves and it could cost them as little as $3,000 and a couple weekends work for something that looks great.. or they could spend $20,000 and pay someone to do everything and get custom cabinets.. or pay $200,000, skys the limit. but on a budget it could be done well for much less than $5,000. there's absolutely no way in hell that it costs $20,000 to do what i mentionned, in fact if anyone wants to make a wager, lets both put $20,000 in escrow and i guarantee i can do it for a hell of a lot less. i don't know anything about soundproofing but i do possess one important quality: COMMON SENSE. if you guys can't offer usefull information then don't post, another example; i posted in a percussion newsgroup once about what kind of pa i would need to play cds through that would keep up with my drums for practice, if i listened to them i'd have two 15" 400 watt jbls.. instead i got a 100 watt 12" wedge for five times less and its more than enough. there's usually ONE person who reccomends far less than everyone else and they're almost alway right. most people in the world seem to have no trouble wasting money, some of us are smarter than that.I dont doubt John's quote. I'm sure soundproofing it very expensive. But surely there is an inexpensive way to reduce sound levels without remortgaging? In all professions there is a right and proper way to do things regardless of cost. If I went to a top-rate mechanic, the best dentist in the country and the finest chiropractor, I'd be broke in a week. But you make do with your budget, your expectations and your realistic needs.
I'd have bought headphones. Or got a drum machine (just kidding!)
I think there should be an 'amateur' section so us amateurs don't waste the professionals' precious time.
Stebed - you asked how much would it cost to soundproof a room so you can play drums 24/7 without disturbing others in the same building.
you are looking at 1550sqft of insulation to line the walls, 1550sqft to be built with stud frame, ceiling and floor joists - 750 sqft of a double layer flooring, 1550sqft of at least a double drywall layer mounted and sealed, new soundproof doors and windows.
Add to that the cost of an electrician to attach the power points and lights AND a fully ducted aircon system or you will die from lack of air as that box has to be totally airtight to be soundproof and playing drums consumes oxygen doesn't it.
Plus you will have to treat that drywall box acoustically or your drums will sound shit.
You do the math
cheers
john
where do you get 1550 square feet of wall or 750 sqft of floor? i said a room 15x25. if ceilings are 8 ft thats 375 sqft of floor and 640 feet of wall. i put up six walls in my office two years ago, 8 feet high totalling 100 feet in length, drywall, plaster, paint and ready to go, that cost me $1300 for the whole job, done in two days, materials and labour, i didn't do a lick of work. what would you guys have paid, $13,000? now those walls werent uninsulated, i don't know how difficult the sealing process is, i don't know how much those soundproof double doors cost, how much a soundproof window costs, and i don't know how much a ventilation system would cost, but it sure as hell isn't $18,700.Stebed - you asked how much would it cost to soundproof a room so you can play drums 24/7 without disturbing others in the same building. you are looking at 1550sqft of insulation to line the walls, 1550sqft to be built with stud frame, ceiling and floor joists - 750 sqft of a double layer flooring, 1550sqft of at least a double drywall layer mounted and sealed, new soundproof doors and windows. Add to that the cost of an electrician to attach the power points and lights AND a fully ducted aircon system or you will die from lack of air as that box has to be totally airtight to be soundproof and playing drums consumes oxygen doesn't it. Plus you will have to treat that drywall box acoustically or your drums will sound shit. You do the math cheers john
i don't know anything about soundproofing but i do possess one
important quality: COMMON SENSE.
Thats where I was when I started building mine(before I found this site) and finished it only to find out it didn't f--king work. I build and remodel for a living and trust me, common sense has nothing to do with sound control or acoustics and thats what got me in trouble. I had to go back in and gut the room and start over but I got it right this time. I'm almost finished and when it's all said and done, the 12'x18'x9' will have set me back about $4000 and I did everything myself. Playing drums 24/7 is unrealistic because of a sleeping wife upstairs but otherwise not much gets out of the house. I'm a lurker for the most part and don't post much but your attitude prompted me to jump in this head first. These people KNOW what they're talking about and if you planned on doing something half-assed to begin with why'd you even bother posting here?
I'm done :)
well the guy just listed what needs to be done, there's no way it costs $20,000 and i'll bet it doesn't cost $10,000 either.i don't know anything about soundproofing but i do possess one important quality: COMMON SENSE. Thats where I was when I started building mine(before I found this site) and finished it only to find out it didn't f--king work. I build and remodel for a living and trust me, common sense has nothing to do with sound control or acoustics and thats what got me in trouble. I had to go back in and gut the room and start over but I got it right this time. I'm almost finished and when it's all said and done, the 12'x18'x9' will have set me back about $4000 and I did everything myself. Playing drums 24/7 is unrealistic because of a sleeping wife upstairs but otherwise not much gets out of the house. I'm a lurker for the most part and don't post much but your attitude prompted me to jump in this head first. These people KNOW what they're talking about and if you planned on doing something half-assed to begin with why'd you even bother posting here? I'm done :)
Okay, now assume you're doing room within a room construction, so you've just doubled that figure(double the drywall, double the wood double the labour)....$2600. You also need a ceiling, say, plus resilient channel, plus double drywall....add another $1500. Insulation will probably run you about $1000 (total guess here, it may be on the low side). Figure on lots of tubes of acoustic sealant...maybe $200 or more. Floors might be nice to have...figure $2K for a decent floor (and this assumes you can build right on the slab, i.e. no need to float the floor). Snakes and wiring, electrical...figure $500-1K by the time you have your patch bays installed and wired (XLR connectors, and good cable aren't cheap). Lighting...figure at least $250...and lots more if you want studio dimmers that won't generate noise on your audio lines. Lights can get expensive fast... Ventilation...ductless split A/C system $2K installed (??). Plus, you still need fresh air supply...so figure another $200 for a quiet fan. If you really want a quiet air handling system you'll need lined duct and plenum chambers...too expensive for now. Nevertheless you'll still need a baffle/louvre system for the fan...$250. Window...not sure, but probably $250-500 isn't out to lunch by the time you get the gaskets done and the glass cut. Door...you could drop over $2K on an overly door, or maybe speed $300 or so making something yourself. Acoustic treatments...figure $2K by the time you have your bass traps, slat resonators, diffusors up. Whats the total? $13050...with the cheaper values of all that I've listed. I'm in the same boat...building a single room about 15X25....I'm figuring around $10K. Krisput up six walls in my office two years ago, 8 feet high totalling 100 feet in length, drywall, plaster, paint and ready to go, that cost me $1300 for the whole job, done in two days, materials and labour, i didn't do a lick of work. what would you guys have paid, $13,000?
that sounds much more reasonable, especially if you exclude the acoustic treatments.. i don't understand the double the cost for the walls.. are you suggesting i would need to build an insulated wall thats double thick? that seems like a waste of money to me, if you're gonna do that why not just build two seperate regular inner walls with air between them instead of one thats twice as thick? and if so a room within a room within a room has to be overkill... if you're just saying i would need double drywall on the inner wall well i read that the best thing to have is drywall, insulation + studs, open air, insulation + studs, drywall.. ie no drywall between the two walls, so instead of putting drywall on both sides i'd be putting it all on one side, same amount of drywall, not double. and i don't get how that would necessitate doubling the lumber.. ive probably misunderstood you. also i'm sure i wouldn't pay $2,000 for a floor, but you never know, -definitely- not $1,000 for wiring, or $2,000 for a door.. bottom line is it seems like it shouldn't be difficult to do for $10,000, it seems like it could be done for far less than that as well if one is willing to do some work. after all, the biggest expense is drywall, lumber, and flooring. after that its the ventilation, door, and window. is there anything else thats major?Okay, now assume you're doing room within a room construction, so you've just doubled that figure(double the drywall, double the wood double the labour)....$2600. You also need a ceiling, say, plus resilient channel, plus double drywall....add another $1500. Insulation will probably run you about $1000 (total guess here, it may be on the low side). Figure on lots of tubes of acoustic sealant...maybe $200 or more. Floors might be nice to have...figure $2K for a decent floor (and this assumes you can build right on the slab, i.e. no need to float the floor). Snakes and wiring, electrical...figure $500-1K by the time you have your patch bays installed and wired (XLR connectors, and good cable aren't cheap). Lighting...figure at least $250...and lots more if you want studio dimmers that won't generate noise on your audio lines. Lights can get expensive fast... Ventilation...ductless split A/C system $2K installed (??). Plus, you still need fresh air supply...so figure another $200 for a quiet fan. If you really want a quiet air handling system you'll need lined duct and plenum chambers...too expensive for now. Nevertheless you'll still need a baffle/louvre system for the fan...$250. Window...not sure, but probably $250-500 isn't out to lunch by the time you get the gaskets done and the glass cut. Door...you could drop over $2K on an overly door, or maybe speed $300 or so making something yourself. Acoustic treatments...figure $2K by the time you have your bass traps, slat resonators, diffusors up. Whats the total? $13050...with the cheaper values of all that I've listed. I'm in the same boat...building a single room about 15X25....I'm figuring around $10K. Krisput up six walls in my office two years ago, 8 feet high totalling 100 feet in length, drywall, plaster, paint and ready to go, that cost me $1300 for the whole job, done in two days, materials and labour, i didn't do a lick of work. what would you guys have paid, $13,000?
By room within a room, I mean double wall construction. The outer walls are framed on seperate 2X4's with 2 layers of drywall on the outer face. Then the inner wall is made of a seperate set of 2X4's with double drywall on the inner face (no dryall on the insides of the wall, that makes a 3 leaf system which is not very effective). Insulation, is naturally between the layers. The end result is effectively a thick wall with an air gap and no direct coupling between the inner and outter faces. Counting up the material involved this is the same as building two walls around your perimeter, hence the doubling in cost. You want double the drywall to increase the mass of your walls...don't underestimate the mass effect. To quiet a room you really need mass, dead air and mass.
Floor...well it depends on what you want. Me, I want hardwood, and $2K is pretty reasonable for hardwood and a subfloor for 400 sqft. Obviously, painted/stained concrete will be cheaper....
Wiring...well, XLR's are pricey. If you want something decent it's about $5 per connector. By the time you wire up a 96 pt patch bay (and I also have a 144pt bay to wire in addition) you've spent a fair amount on conenctors alone!
Doors, yup Overly doors are expensive....they work, but they're the big $ solution. Mere mortals doing this as a hobby will end up building our own doors or making due with a couple solid cores and some good seals.
Acoustic treatments...trust me you'll want them. The first thing you'll notice once you have your heavy/stiff walls up is that there will be bass problems. Regular thin walls act like bass traps to a certain extent...once the the thick walls go in your room will show it's modal response more, and you're probably going to want to tame it. Putting absorbent across the ceiling is also a good idea to make a room 'sound' taller.
Kris
You would double the thickness. Have two layers. You may decide to use MDF on the inner layer so you can screw anywhere on the walls and ceiling. More cost though. If you decide to use RSIC type clips, they are about $7:40 Canadian and good for about 4 square feet, so you would need about 200 for the walls, or about $1,500 right there. Sound insualtion costs money, and like the doors and clips it all ads up. BTW double the door cost for two. Working conservativelya $1,500 per door that you can mount seal youself that is now $4,500 for 2 items in the room: wall isolation clips and doors. John's estimates are right ont he money for what you described. Andrei'd be putting it all on one side, same amount of drywall, not double.
remember minimums? i don't even know what you're talking about, 96 pt patch bay? i want a soundproofed room to practice my drums in and not bother anyone. im going to record rudimentary demos in it using the current gear i already use in our rehearsal room which is nothing but a plywood drywall room as it is. works fine for us. hardwood floors and patch bays have no business in this estimate. you might as well say 'and $3,000 for a chandelier, you'll need light right??'i still dont understand, an outer wall (which already exists) and an inner wall (which needs to be built), the inner wall requires double drywall on the inside, none on other other side. thats two layers of drywall, standard. i don't see where the double of cost comes in. please make it clear what you mean, here's what i'm getting: two layers of drywall, 4" insulated wall, air (how much?), 4" insulated wall, two layers of drywall.By room within a room, I mean double wall construction. The outer walls are framed on seperate 2X4's with 2 layers of drywall on the outer face. Then the inner wall is made of a seperate set of 2X4's with double drywall on the inner face (no dryall on the insides of the wall, that makes a 3 leaf system which is not very effective). Insulation, is naturally between the layers. The end result is effectively a thick wall with an air gap and no direct coupling between the inner and outter faces. Counting up the material involved this is the same as building two walls around your perimeter, hence the doubling in cost. You want double the drywall to increase the mass of your walls...don't underestimate the mass effect. To quiet a room you really need mass, dead air and mass.see when someone wants to know the range of what something could cost, for the minimum you have to assume the minimum (within reason), instead of $2,000 for hardwood floor, lets save a bundle and just lay down carpet since this won't be in a basement.Floor...well it depends on what you want. Me, I want hardwood, and $2K is pretty reasonable for hardwood and a subfloor for 400 sqft. Obviously, painted/stained concrete will be cheaper....Wiring...well, XLR's are pricey. If you want something decent it's about $5 per connector. By the time you wire up a 96 pt patch bay (and I also have a 144pt bay to wire in addition) you've spent a fair amount on conenctors alone!
Seems like you already have this cost thing all figured out. John gave you a straight answer in his initial reply. This is the guy's website. Not sure if you are aware of that. Have a look around. You might want to check out the amazing studios that he has designed. Here's the link to a nice little book he wrote:
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
You might want to read up on that before you question his ability to help answer your question. Sound proofing and sound reduction are completely different. If you had a budget in mind then your question should have been, "I have $x,xxx and I would like to play drums without disturbing my neighbors. What can I do?"
Reread this thread. Maybe that way you'll notice how bad your attitude has been.
-Al
no its a simple question, i want to soundproof a room so i can play drums 24/7 in a condominium building, if i did this as cheaply as possible (while still reaching my goal), how much could it realistically cost? i don't understand why you guys have such trouble wrapping your heads around that. there's absolutely NO WAY it costs a minimum of $20,000 US. i don't care if this is his site, i don't care how many books he's written. thats a ridiculous number. obviously it CAN cost $20,000, but there's no way it can't be done just as well for far less.and thats wonderful but i didn't ask how much its costs to build an amazing studio, i asked what it would cost to soundproof a small room so i could practice my drums without bothering neighbors.Seems like you already have this cost thing all figured out. John gave you a straight answer in his initial reply. This is the guy's website. Not sure if you are aware of that. Have a look around. You might want to check out the amazing studios that he has designed.You might want to read up on that before you question his ability to help answer your question. Sound proofing and sound reduction are completely different. If you had a budget in mind then your question should have been, "I have $x,xxx and I would like to play drums without disturbing my neighbors. What can I do?"