Room Reverb Problems

I know this has probably been beat to death, but it is an acoustics forum so I'll shoot my question here :lol: Most topics I've read, the mixer, computer, and monitors have been evenly placed in the middle of a control room. Well I only have one room to put all my gear in, so this is my control/live room. So that is the reason for the computer being off to the right. And this is the best possible place that I've found to put everything. My problem is I have no room to put my monitors except right on my desk, without their own speaker stands, will this cause too much of a problem? I can't put foam directly behind me because of the door, I can't put foam right in front of me because of the window, and to the right of me is a door. So early reflections may pose a problem because I can't exactly treat it. Also looking for a way to save money, but haven't found exactly would would be best for me. I am thinking from what I have read, (correct me if I'm wrong). . . Rigid Fiberglass covered in cloth mounted to the wall. The bigger the panel's, the better. I can't space them off the walls because I simply don't have the room. Any suggestions?

Any way of losing the couch? That thing is huge for a small room, losing it would help your arrangement a lot... If not, you've hit on about all you can do. If possible, an absorbent panel to the right of the desk, in front of the vocal area; this should help keep that alcove from being a big reflective mess and causing so much imbalance to the stereo image. If you can come up with a way to elevate your speakers so they are at ear height it should help also - but be careful; if your ceiling height is 8 feet, you will be really close to having both your ears and the speakers (center of woofers) at or very near the center of your height dimension; this should be avoided due to cancellations at even fractions of room dimensions (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 2/3, etc) Not sure what else would help... Steve

Guy, > Any suggestions? < The most important thing you can do is rotate your setup so you're facing the window on the left. This lets the speakers fire the long way into the room, which is much better than the short way as it is now. All of the other details matter far less. Though I do agree with Steve that the couch seems a little big for that room. --Ethan

And I agree with Ethan on moving your mix station; woulda mentioned it if you hadn't seemed so adamant about where stuff "had" to go... Steve

Thanks for the advice. The only problem I have is this doubles as where I sleep, where I have my control room/practice area. So I also have a 3' x 3' bass cabinet in there at times as well. Along with a 4' x 2' guitar amp. So the couch is actually a futon. It lower into a bed. Although I rarely lower it into the bed. The bed measures, 6' 8" exactly for the length. And about 3' for the the width. The only reason why I suggested keeping everything where it is, is because I have found this arrangement works for me (space wise), but I am open to tossing the couch out of the room and putting it somewhere else, I'll figure that out if you can help me with an arrangement. My only concern is the desk is a "L" shaped desk, which is meant to be a corner desk, but wherever you think would be best without the couch in the room, I'd like to see some suggestions. One more thing, there a air duct vent in the front wall. I'll upload another pic.

Are those arcs at the right side doors, or is the new red line at lower left the door? for the new pic, a few more labels would probably help... Steve

i edited the first post and uploaded the new pic with more labels

Started to re-arrange things, then realized your sketch is not even close to scale; if you start with this one, you can actually draw things to correct size so you'll know if they fit - Steve

I've updated your pic, I had to resize it because I made accurate measurements and everything is to scale in this next drawing. The couch is actually smaller than what I thought for the room, it looks a bit smaller than the previous pic. I am going to need to couch for at least 3 months until the other project bedroom is finished. So the couch has to stay, for a little while. If you think it's detrimental to get rid of, please tell me and I'll wait for treatment until after the couch is moved. Unless you think I can get away with it being in there, then I can go ahead. The other thing I can get rid of right now is the tv stand in the room. That can go as soon as possible if it's too much in the room. Let me know. Thanks

How 'bout something like this? Balances the mix position, keeps the couch, might even be room for the TV depending on reality check... Steve

I really like that. It seems very do-able and centers the speakers in my room as well. Now that we have the orientation of my room situated, what about some wall panels and acoustic treatment. 8' ceiling, hard wood flooring, durarock (cement) walls. So everything is quite echo'y. I like the spectrum to be pretty flat, but I am looking for acoustically pleasing, and some that is really "mix" worthy for a room. So I don't need isolation or anything like that for the room. But as always, there's a budget. I am thinking of (what I heard) is to use rigid fiberglass mounted inside just a wood frame, and covered with my choice of fabric. Would this be enough? Also with my limited knowledge of acoustics, I'm trying to find the basics on acoustic's, but can only find stuff regarding certain frequencies, I.E. the calcuators in the sticky's at the top of the forum. I'm not sure what frequencies I'm having problems with, whether it be low end or high end. To sum up. 1) Would fiberglass in a wood frame covered in fabric be enough on a few of the walls. 2) How do I tell what frequencies I am having problems with in my room. 3) Good information page on the basics on acoustics and how to get the best out of a room, besides bugging you guys every day. :wink:

Got some useful ideas, but no time this morning; I'll elaborate tonite... Steve

I updated the pic one more time, I feel like the desk is too big for my room at the moment, so I can dissassemble the desk to like the picture shows, this is probably how I will have it. Although there is no room for a mixer, so I'll follow this post... http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3020 and make my own rack mount to hold my mixer and a few effects I have. Which will be next to the desk, this also allows for a little more room in the room to move things if need be. Does this look like a better idea having a smaller desk? Look forward to what you have! Thanks

Yeah, that does look better; less clutter and easier to get around. Now, what's the story on your long closet's doors? Am I correct in assuming they're along the long side closest to your space, and if so what are they - non-existent, folding, sliding, louvered, mirrored, ??!? And, are you up for building something(s) like this? http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15642 (About 3/4 the way down the thread) One of those in front of your closet with the doors open or gone, would help a LOT with bass trapping, since the air behind would be at least 2 feet - then, smaller panels on side walls at reflection points, one behind your speakers and another over the desk/mix area, should get you some serious improvement in sound... Steve

The long closet is an installed closet. They are three sliding door's. Not sure how else to explain it. I'm up for building anything, just as long as I can easily toss it aside to get into my closet when I need to. How small of panels on the left and ride side? Should I do anything from the main John Sayers site, like corner bass traps (problem because of my vent left of my desk) or slot resonaters or anything, or are these the best thing for a cheap budget? Also I assume you mean on the ceiling when you say "over the mix area". I don't have time to read the whole thread on the panels right now, but I will later tonight. I'm sure I'll have more questions on exact plans :) Thanks again, Dave

I read through the article you pointed out, nice suggestions. 1) How big of panels would you suggest for the room. 2) is this a good layout of how I should do the panels. . . a - build square 1x4 frame b - leave 1" air on the back c - 1" of wool d - 1" insulation e - 1/2" of air f - cover it all with a layer of plywood. And seal it all 3) Is it ok if I nail board into my closet doors/walls, to make a sort of hook to hold the panels up. Line it with a little bit of foam to prevent rattling. Will this do the job just as well? This way the panels arn't permanent for removal, and so I can have easy access to the closet as well.

1) How big of panels would you suggest for the room. Typical absorbent materials come in 2' x 4' panels; this is also about as small as will do much. For SOME small, early reflection treatments a 2x2 foot panel can help. For others, 4' x 6' is better. Side reflections, half-way between speaker and your head on side walls, you might only need 2x2's but probably 2x4's - for the front of the closet, more like 4x6 foot - same for a "cloud" over the mix position. Corner broadband absorbers should be MINIMUM 2 feet wide, 3 is better. Across wall-ceiling intersections, diagonal 2' wide works. 2) is this a good layout of how I should do the panels. . . a - build square 1x4 frame b - leave 1" air on the back c - 1" of wool d - 1" insulation e - 1/2" of air f - cover it all with a layer of plywood. And seal it all No, the minute you use a plywood back or front you've just changed it to either a limited-absorption panel or a panel-type bass trap (narrow frequency range, probably more damage than good unless it's calculated correctly AND you have a problem at that particular frequency AND it's placed in exactly the right spot in the room) Better just to use as thick absorbent as you can afford in that frame, use either steel angles for corner braces or use relatively small wood corner gussets, and cover the absorbent with your favorite cloth. Spacing this further away from a wall will increase the lower frequency range of absorption. A solid-backed panel will act totally different. 3) Is it ok if I nail board into my closet doors/walls, to make a sort of hook to hold the panels up. Line it with a little bit of foam to prevent rattling. Will this do the job just as well? This way the panels arn't permanent for removal, and so I can have easy access to the closet as well. I've posted a sketch of one similar method some time ago - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/download.php?id=1173 Before you get started on ANY of this, it wouldn't hurt to find out about any existing rattles in your room so you can kill them before anything else is added - if you have a PC, you can use this http://www.moonaudio.com/softwar5.htm and sweep the frequency of the audio oscillator through the audio range at about 90 dB level, listening for rattles - any you find will need to be killed, either by removing the object, dampening it with foam, duct tape, etc... Steve