FINISHED IN 2020! Sharward's Partial Garage Conversion

And now for something completely unrelated... I've made no secret of the fact that I'm a huge fan of progressive metal music, and specifically Dream Theater. Well, they're on their 20th anniversary tour right now, and I had planned to go to their San Francisco show on the 11th of next month with my wife and a few friends. Then last week they posted their final date on the tour (Anaheim, 2 days earlier) and one of my Southern California buddies invited me to see the show with him. After a pause to consider, I found that one of my buddies up here is willing and looking forward to making the road trip with me! And since we'll be "in the neighborhood" per se, we'll also be catching the Hollywood show the following evening! So, there you have it -- all three California Dream Theater concerts on three consecutive nights! :mrgreen: http://sharward.com/eveningwithdreamtheater.jpg So, fair warning -- I won't be getting much done on the studio that weekend! :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

alright, i give up! i must investigate this Dream Theater. not familiar with them i went and downloaded a DT release (legally, from iTunes) ... i got Octavarium. it pretty much rocks. ok, there are some slower tunes on there that kind of suck, but the rockin ones are really rockin. good stuff maynard.

Octivarium is their newest release (last summer). The track named "Octivarium" is one of their epics. It's a pretty slow starter but it takes you for quite a ride!!! 8) :mrgreen: There are still a few tickets remaining for their San Francisco show... Edit: Too late! :!: They're sold out!

[off topic] Prog (metal) lover here, too :) DT sure is kewl, the "Scenes of a Memory" is really THE best DT album in my opinion. Conceptual album about a killer's mind... jackl and hide any one? Opeth, Pain of Salvation, TOOL, Meshuggah etc are just my fave. (TOOL will be releasing new album in may this year. . YEAH!) shameless plug: http://www.libramentum.nl <-- my progminded metal band :) [/off topic] cheers !

Greetings and welcome, Ro! And hey, this is my thread, and if I say Prog Metal is the topic of the day, then we're not off topic at all! :lol: I mean, it's not like you're posting an ad for Wal-Mart on my thread or anything vicious like that! ;-)

I tried to pick up the form boards after work yesterday (I got furloughed a bit early due to the President's Day holiday 8)), but I arrived two minutes after closing. :evil: I'll give them credit because they were willing to help me anyway... Although I was unprepared. I took the wife's rental car, since its rear seats fold down, but they said the boards wouldn't fit. They were right, mostly because the freakin' head restraints wouldn't come off the passenger seat! :evil: So I decided to go home and plan to pick them up today (Saturday) somehow... Once I got home I figured out how to pull the head restraints off. There's a tiny hole on the side that requires a miniture screwdriver to be inserted to release it. A safety feature I suppose. So I think I can fit one, maybe two boards in at a time. And I need four of them, so I really hope I can do it in two trips instead of four! They're sixteen feet long, so they'll stick out the back quite a bit. If they stick out more than 4 feet, they require a flag during daylight hours (California vehicle code -- of course I'd look that up! I'm the code nazi after all, right?! :lol). Hopefully I'll have pictures of hugely long form boards soon! Wish me luck... --Keith :mrgreen:

Hey Keith when is that book you're writing supposed to come out??? What's it called? "How to build a home studio using only a rental compact car and a suped up RX8 as transportation"? :lol: <--I am laughing with you man...with you.

Keith, just before being laughed out of Florida... :twisted: http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Overload.htm

That's one of my favorites, Steve! In fact, snopes.com verified that it actually happened! :lol: Actually, I'm pleased to report that I not only was able to transport the forms in my wife's rental, I was able to do it in one trip! :D "Piccies or it didn't happen." Well, it happened! :D I drove surface streets back home. I nailed each pair of forms together so that they'd be less likely to slide around. They didn't budge! 8) I guess I need to set 'em up now, huh? :roll: I'm not quite sure how I'm going to go about this... :? ...I can't really do conventional bracing because the forms will be positioned close to the existing concrete -- very close in most cases. I also need to be able to dismantle and remove the forms after the concrete is poured. Hopefully something like the illustration below will do the trick.

So far, so good! I got my first form board set, using pretty much the same idea as the drawing above, only instead of attaching a block to the stake to support the weight of the board, I just used a 2.5" long screw in a pre-drilled hole to prevent the stake from splitting. I then used a 2.5" long screw through the top of the form board at about a 30 degree angle, again in a predrilled hole. I'm pleased with the sturdiness. Once the boards are all placed, I intend to brace the backs of the stakes with leftover pieces of 1x2 which I made cleats from. This will help keep the forms in place as lateral pressure is applied during the pour. I also will be backfilling the trenches to the bottom of the boards. The boards are 12" tall, so that will be the consistent depth of the perimeter. This will prevent concrete from spillling out under the forms, which otherwise would come into contact with the existing foundation. I'm a little nervous about the inspection that's forthcoming, because I'm not 100% sure these methods are kosher. There's also no way I'll be done with the rebar before next weekend when my permit is set to expire. The best possible outcome would be having good enough forms to pass the inspection and then I can do the rebar before the pour and not need to have the rebar inspected... But I don't think that's realistic. In all likelihood I'll have to have two inspections -- one next week just to keep my permit from expiring, and then another "real" inspection right before the first pour. I didn't get too much accomplished today, but I'm pretty pleased so far. There was an unexplainable psychological hurdle in getting these forms started! :roll: Also, I'm really glad that I invested in this terrific laser level -- it has been terrific! I bought it before breaking up the concrete and it's been a godsend. I spent about $100 for it, with the intent of selling it when I'm all done with the project... But it will be difficult for me to part with it! Tomorrow and the next day should be interesting. Hopefully I'll be all done with the forms and perhaps even started on the rock subbase! 8)

Nice work bro!! Way to use and abuse that rental!! The FatMax Laser is the schnizzle!! I can't sell mine...I keep finding new uses for it. :mrgreen: Anyway, keep dem piccys comin.

Aw, shucks -- that's nothin'! You should see how I abused my trusty little convertible when I had it! (I sold it to buy this about six months ago.)

Are you going to remove those form boards after the pour? If so, you might want to make those 1x2 cleats push the top of the form board "in" (i.e., toward the new concrete) just a bit so that you'll have a little space behind them to make them come out easier. I don't think it would have to be a noticable amount, just enough to loosen up a bit when it's time to remove them. len

Yes, Len, that's exactly the plan! :-) I plan to rock the stakes side to side to loosen them after the pour -- that's the main reason I'm not trimming them off at the top of the forms so that I have more leverage. They'll get in the way a bit during the screeding process, but oh well! ;-) I'll take more pictures from a "top-down" angle so you can see the gap between the stakes and the existing concrete. Thanks for taking time to notice these details, Len! :D --Keith :mrgreen:

Yayyyy! The first pour forms are set! I managed to do pretty well I think! 8) They're so sturdy that I can actually stand or walk on them and they don't budge! (And I'm no lightweight either -- about 250# actually!! :shock:) Tomorrow I'm going to backfill and tamp the deepest areas of the trenches, widen the trenches in some areas, and hopefully get started on placing the crushed rock I saved. Tomorrow's supposed to be sunny -- it should be a nice day to schlep wheelbarrows full of rocks! (Sincere condolences to all you folks suffering in the briskly cold weather throughout the US!) Now before anyone asks... I will eventually be using a vibratory plate compactor similar to this one:

Alright -- time for "piccies" as Sir Woodlock would say! Now try not to laugh at some of the goofy looking bracing behind the stakes along the walls... :roll: ...I just used various scraps of lumber I didn't have the heart to throw away (and am now very glad I didn't!) with minimal cutting needed. Did I mention that they're really sturdy?! :lol: --Keith :mrgreen:

"Pleased with the sturdiness" ... i like that, can i use that in my thread? :) Good to see you making progress on your project, Keith! Especially that part about putting 16 foot boards in a compact car ... i thought I was nuts putting 16 footers in my minivan :lol: Good luck with the inspection!

Dan Fitzpatrick wrote:

"Pleased with the sturdiness" ... i like that, can i use that in my thread? :)

Absolutely -- provided you cite it with "©2006 Mere Mortal Sharward. All rights reserved. Used with permission." ;-)

Good to see you making progress on your project, Keith!

Yeah, it's good to be back in the saddle. 8)

Especially that part about putting 16 foot boards in a compact car ... i thought I was nuts putting 16 footers in my minivan :lol:

Yeah, that was something else, huh? The boards were about an inch or two from the windshield! I used cardboard to prevent damage and to make it possible to slide them into and out of position. I loaded them up by myself -- I could have had help if I had wanted it, but I wanted to be able to take my time... :) I'm pretty good at getting things to fit snugly in my car(s). My entire drum kit fits in the RX-8 in the trunk and back seat, cymbals and hardware included. The front seats can even slide almost all the way back too! 8)

Oh, and I almost forgot... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 40,000 VIEWS! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

"Did I mention that they're really sturdy?!" - And now, if I were you, I'd go back and put braces between each and every one of those, made at LEAST as sturdy as the ones already in place. Did I mention that concrete is really HEAVY??!? No, I'm NOT kidding; from the look of your form boards and the spacin' of the bracin', there's a VERY good chance you'll get bulged sides and/or broken braces. For that deep a slab, I tend to use 2x4 bracing spaced no more than 24" apart, with the diagonal braces placed on edge and DOUBLE nailed at the top join between vertical stake and diagonal one. I had one pour bulge out an INCH when using 4' stake spacing, and I'd used 2x12's for forms and steel 3/4" diameter rods for stakes - your form boards look like maybe 1" OSB at most, which has nowhere NEAR the bend strength of a fir 2x lumber. Consider this; if I'm wrong, you're out a few pieces of wood and a bit more time; if I'm RIGHT, you're SCREWED... There's a good reason why pro's use 3/4 ply with 2x4 framing BEHIND it every couple feet for forming - the total effective thickness of those forms is over 4", so when properly braced they don't move. Also, ask your concrete supplier where to get "mold release" - it's a spray can you spray your forms with everywhere the concrete will touch, and you'll be glad you used it. If you can't find that, staple poly sheeting onto the surfaces of the form boards, and depending on the slump pull your forms in about 4-6 hours (top of concrete should NOT be "dentable" by pushing as hard as you can with your thumb) Or, if you're having the actual pour done by pro's, ASK their advice BEFORE the truck is due. Break a leg (but not really) :wink: Steve

knightfly wrote:

And now, if I were you, I'd go back and put braces between each and every one of those, made at LEAST as sturdy as the ones already in place. . . there's a VERY good chance you'll get bulged sides and/or broken braces. For that deep a slab, I tend to use 2x4 bracing spaced no more than 24" apart, with the diagonal braces placed on edge and DOUBLE nailed at the top join between vertical stake and diagonal one. I had one pour bulge out an INCH when using 4' stake spacing, and I'd used 2x12's for forms and steel 3/4" diameter rods for stakes - your form boards look like maybe 1" OSB at most, which has nowhere NEAR the bend strength of a fir 2x lumber.

Thanks for the advice, Steve -- and, yes, I'll be taking it. Some clarification though on the forms... They're 1 1/4" thick and 12" tall. The stakes are spaced about 3 feet apart right now. I'm also using 2 1/2" course thread screws on everything, though fewer screws than are ideal due to the close quarters (I'm not screwing anywhere on the concrete-facing side of the forms).

Consider this; if I'm wrong, you're out a few pieces of wood and a bit more time; if I'm RIGHT, you're SCREWED...

True enough! Better safe than sorry, that's for sure. :roll:

Also, ask your concrete supplier where to get "mold release" - it's a spray can you spray your forms with everywhere the concrete will touch, and you'll be glad you used it. If you can't find that, staple poly sheeting onto the surfaces of the form boards, and depending on the slump pull your forms in about 4-6 hours (top of concrete should NOT be "dentable" by pushing as hard as you can with your thumb) Or, if you're having the actual pour done by pro's, ASK their advice BEFORE the truck is due.

Excellent. 8) Actually, I'm planning to line the entire area with plastic, and I wasn't sure whether or not to have the plastic follow the forms. I figured that was a bridge I'd cross later. And yes, I am planning to have the concrete poured and finished by a pro. The reason I'm doing all the prepwork/gruntwork myself isn't so much to save money (although that's obviously a motivation too), but to have more control over the dimensions, and (this is a biggie) to make the job more attractive to pros, since it's such a small job. I realize that I'm making the job smaller by doing more of the work -- but hopefully having everything prepped and ready for pour, plus the fact that it's all under cover, will make the project desirable, especially if the weather isn't great. Fortunately, I think I found a licensed concrete contractor who is interested in the job... But I want to keep my options open, just in case that lead doesn't pan out. Thank you Steve for watching my back!! :D --Keith :mrgreen:

OK, the concrete form board stake beef-up process is underway. I went back to the equipment rental place (which has a really nice assortment of concrete equipment, obviously) to buy more stakes. I decided to "bite the bullet" and get 3 foot round steel stakes that are 3/4" in diameter. I bought 30 of them at a cost of $2.80 each. :shock: In retrospect I wish I had purchased these initially, as they drive into the ground much easier and they're much stronger! So now I have a leapfrog pattern of wood, steel, wood, steel, etc. It looks rather goofy and I'm sure very amateurish... :roll: ...Not quite the impression I hoped to make with my first municipal building department inspection! :lol: Anyway, today's pace started rather slowly and it ended early due to a dinner engagement with my wife's family (sister-in-law's belated birthday dinner, postponed due to the Dad Going To Hospital incident a couple of weeks ago). Back to the stakes... I'm not done securing them, but most of them are driven into the ground where they need to be. I'm really glad I'm doing this (Thanks, Steve!) because it dawned on me while I was working today -- the wooden stakes suck the way that I drove them -- indeed I should have rotated them all 90 degrees so that they were thickest in the direction of the lateral forces! :evil: Now, in my defense, I didn't do that along the edges because it would have cost me another inch or so... But I didn't have that constraint in the L-shaped area towards the center of the garage (where the "kicker" stakes are quite visible) -- and that would have been moot if I had used the steel stakes to begin with! :( Oh well... In spite of the long delay before starting this task, I wholly admit to rushing this part -- so much so that I didn't bother reviewing the "How to build a concrete slab" DVD I purchased a few weeks back. :? Lesson learned: Don't rush! Here are some pictures of what has been done with the steel stakes so far. Overall, pretty darned good... Although I can plainly see problems with my block braces along the existing walls and a couple of other trouble spots that became evident today. I can pretty much kiss away any longshot hopes I had of passing my first inspection this week... But at least I'll get my six-month extension.

I'd get some 2x4's or 2x6's and brace to the solidest thing you've got, namely the old slab; I'd do it every corner and every 4 feet IN ADDITION to what you already have. stakes can bend, pull out, tip over, but a short 2x4 like this will support a CAR, even in compression. Trust me, you do NOT want your forms to move when there's wet concrete in them. See your modified pic below... Steve

You're a freakin' genius, Steve! I actually don't have any spare 2x4s anymore, but I've got some 4x4 laying around, so I think I'll use that instead. :twisted: And I'll use some 2 foot wooden stakes to steady the braces so that they don't slip 'n' slide. :twisted: Did I mention you're a genius? 8)

This is probably a REALLY stupid question but with a slab as thick as you are about to pour, is there any chance of air pockets forming in the concrete as it cures? I have seen vibration equipment used to remove air and settle the concrete for a good dense slab, no problems with cracking later. I am sure you have already looked into this, I was just curious as to if you are concerned with this or not.

Actually, I have not looked into this, but I'll definitely ask my concrete guy and/or look into this myself prior to the pour! 8) Hey, what the heck are you doing up at this hour? It's 3 AM your time! Oh yeah, you're a guitarist... Never mind! :lol: