Starting Fresh and Obeying the Laws of Physics

Maybe it dodn't catch, but I added the drawing that should have ben there on my post, three messages ago. Does this clear up the second leaf question? Andre

I am not totally clear still on the second leaf in the ceiling but I think I have a solution coupling the duct touching the inner leaf to the outer leaf with a rubber duct decoupler . . Here is what I have been doing on the control room as I am more thinking that the open control room could be more of a hassle than its worth. Notice the bathroom-mechanical room, is it ok to do it like this? Regards,

Bump . . Here is the ACAD to date. Edit - deleted incorrect file to avoid confusion, see below - steve

Not sure if it's just me, but I get a 0 kB file size and nothing when I download the zip file... Steve

Yes you are correct. .. I must have zipped it when the file was still open in ACAD . . . try again . ..

That's more like it; hopefully I'll get a chance tonight to check it out... Steve

Anybody have any thoughts on my sketches?? Thanks

edenorchestra wrote:

I am not totally clear still on the second leaf in the ceiling but I think I have a solution coupling the duct touching the inner leaf to the outer leaf with a rubber duct decoupler . . Here is what I have been doing on the control room as I am more thinking that the open control room could be more of a hassle than its worth. Notice the bathroom-mechanical room, is it ok to do it like this?

What hassle with the open space? It requires fewer walls. You have to locate HVAC properly regardless. What are aslking about okay with the Mech room? Whatr is confusing everyone on the AC system? This has to be clarified before we forget it. 90%; Andre

Also, are you asking about the mech room as the posted drawing or as in the acad zip version, and is the round thing the water heater? Steve

Andre: What hassle with the open space? It requires fewer walls. You have to locate HVAC properly regardless.

Maybe not so much a hassle as I have been trading back and forth the idea of an open room for good musician interaction vs a good mix when I am tracking live instruments, particualary drums . . A separate control room would also reduce the number of laminated trusses I need accross the 24' span as I can use standard lumber to span the control room since its size is reduced . .

Andre: What are aslking about okay with the Mech room?

I am simply asking if the walls are ok as I have no isolation for the mechanical room to the outside . . didn't think that would matter much as I still have 2 leaves between any room in question . .

Andre: Whatr is confusing everyone on the AC system? This has to be clarified before we forget it.

AC is forced air with a condensing element in the furnace. Outside compressor with inside propane or oil burner. It gets cold here in Pennslyvania.

Knightfly: Also, are you asking about the mech room as the posted drawing or as in the acad zip version, and is the round thing the water heater?

The circle is a person, just making sure there is enough room to sit on the potty . . . Andre . . you seem to truly like the open idea . . am I correct?

Iso to outside from the potty shouldn't matter; what CAN matter is if you end up with any plumbing, either supply or drain, that has any hard connection to any part of structure that isn't decoupled from ANY of your inner surfaces, and someone takes a dump while you're doing a take, so to speak... This can, if plumbing is shared with the house, travel all the way from "gitchy-goomy" to your "quiet roomy", possibly causing your "one in a million" take to be flushed down the drain - this is why you need to keep all plumbing on outer walls, and well shock-mounted - it could also be why a live room with a floated floor may be necessary for more than just avoiding irritating the neighbors. At least, in a mix room, a toilet flush isn't going to cause a re-take. I think it would be a good idea if you can do another cad drawing, this time with full detail on framing, wall layers, insulation, etc - just to make sure there will be no surprise flanking paths in your construction. Overall it looks good, you've got the leaves continuous from what I see; but those small details are what can ruin a perfectly good plan... Steve

Things look sort of okay in general. Expres the isuees with open vs closed more clearly and we can discuss them and help you make the best decision. VanGraaf has worked a wall system for open recording spaces, I'll tey and find some links ot show you.

Knightfly wrote:

I think it would be a good idea if you can do another cad drawing, this time with full detail on framing, wall layers, insulation, etc - just to make sure there will be no surprise flanking paths in your construction. Overall it looks good, you've got the leaves continuous from what I see; but those small details are what can ruin a perfectly good plan

Excellent idea. Include it in DXF format so we can analyze/ suggest effectively. 90% no matter what; Andre

The saga continues! 8)

Thought I would update this thread and let you all see what's been going on. I will soon be doing the dreaded insulation blow-in for the outer leaf. These are from last fall through early summer. Original building Lifting the building to repair the block foundation Ditch to connect the water and sewage Adding the new foundation and the construction of the addition. Sorry for being so late in this . . been pretty possessed with getting the big jobs done. More to follow . . . Later

Wow! Great photos! :D Interesting that you had to lift the building to fix the block foundation. I'm sure that was no easy task! :shock: Thanks for sharing. We eat this stuff up!! 8) --Keith :mrgreen:

Here are some updates. We blew the insulation in the big room today, around 15" for a R50 rating.. Lods of fun . . if you are considering blown in insulation . . do like I did and get a good mask and a bright light. I am also including some shots of the room. I have to run a beam across the bulkhead for the inner walls so that the high ceiling and the low ceiling are open to each other without any center pillars. My plan is to use the 24' laminated beam on some strong pillars at each end . . any thoughts out there . . . .

so here's the layout so far . . the area in question (the bulkhead) where the high ceiling meets the low ceiling, right at the dotted line. I would like to slop the high ceiling so that it forms a bit of a ampitheater effect into the rest of the rooom. The rafters on the high side will be from left to right as in the sketch here. The left side of the rafters will sit on the inner wall, but the right side of the rafters must stradle a beam right about where the dotted line is. Also the area marked Utility so far is not isolated. I was planning on finished the outside walls and the walls that are adjacent to the Studio and Control Room would be connected floor to outer ceiling. Any one see any issues here??

Here are some more updates . . I am tonight including the AutoCad drawings of the HVAC system. Of course at this point the equipment is installed and the ductwork under 15" of cellulose insulation. The furnace is a super high efficient propane with heat pump as well. My guitar player is a journeyman sheet metal worker, so he designed the system. I had the ductwork fabricated using 1" insulated duct along with acoustic rated turning vanes on all the supply lines.

Sorry for the wide jpg . . I don't know how that one slipped through . . here are some shots of the ventilation . . . BTW . . anyone have any thoughts on my beam question . . three threads back . . .

Only got a few minutes before work, so I'll have to review your thread in a day or two - can you please go back and trim the wide pic so we don't have to scroll sideways? If for some reason I miss getting back to this, please bump it; I've been lucky to get 4 hours sleep a day for the last month or so, brain farts 'r much more likely... Steve

trimmed . . .

Bump

What do you need to know about your laminated beam - how/where to build what, or sizing for a 24' span, or?? Sloping the ceiling of the live room that way can cause some reflection/echo problems where the high point is, next to the laminated beam/dotted line - be a good place for a horizontal corner absorber of 3 or 4" mineral wool most likely. Please tell me I'm NOT seeing a common trunk line from the air handler with drops into BOTH rooms??!? This will kill quite a bit of isolation between CR and live room. Don't remember where, but it's been mentioned here (and in several books on studio building) that you need separate runs from air handler to each room, with at least 180 degrees of bends in each run. The ducts look large enough - if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing, is there enough room for blocking off one room's feed and running separate lines from/to the air handler? Hopefully I'm looking wrong... Steve

Actually I not concerned about the air handling. The main duct from the furnace is over sized. From there we have 360 degrees each of turns between the CR and the Studio. We thought about home running the supply and with the large main duct have achieved close to that, effectively the 20X20 closely emulates the home run effect for each supply feed. All duct work is internally lined with 1" of acoustic insulation, not to metion being supported on EPDM rubber as well as covered on three sides with cellulose insulation. All supply vents have internal acoustic rated turning vanes which are also internally lined with insulation. The furnace has a variable speed controlled DC blower. I realize that doesn't isolate the two rooms, but does address the air velocity issues. The system was designed by my guitar player, who designs ductwork for one of Pittsburgh's largest mechanical HVAC companies. Will be fine . . . :wink: As far as the span is concerned, I am going to use laminated products. Most likely TJI pro 230 on the straight span. On the dotted line area, I am having one of my structural engineers spec out the best product for that one. I was mainly wanting some input on the shape of the high ceiling. I think I wll bevel the hard corner on the dotted area, and yes I agree with you on asorbers at that point. -Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Some updates . . . Working on the flooring for the main room. My floors are extremely uneven . . spent all day making shims . . . we used a laser to level the floor and she's pretty "dead nuts" on . . The R50 insulation is certainly keeping the building much much warmer . . Has drywall been used as a layer in flooring as in between two sheets of plywood or OSB . . is that functional???