Please check out my drawings

Hi everybody, Im putting together preliminary drawings for my hoped-for future studio. I won't be moving into the house until Nov 20th so there are some structural unknowns at this time. But, that is not stopping me from experimenting with constructional drawings. Really, I'm just trying to practice. I figure if I can draw these things, I really understand them. Anyway, heres the basic floor design.

I forgot to mention maybe the most important factor which is that the floor of the basement is plywood-on-joists and the walls are concrete. So, there will be concrete on two sides of the studio. So, is this drawing below overkill for those two sides boardering the concrete walls?

Alright, I'm just gonna keep going here :D . Now, I haven't yet cosulted with an engineer about how much weight those plywood-on-joist floors can hold. So, that is subject to change. But, this next drawing addresses something I think I will be dealing with which is how to attach the walls to the joists of the floor above if I use RC to hang my ceiling drywall from. Let me know what any of you think

Hello Hummarstra, Picture #1. Have you had a look at some studio and garage studio designs on sae site.There's a link to it from the main page of this site.I think it's called "recording manual" or smthng like that. Picture #2. Get rid of the stud wall in the middle.A three leaves of mass and two air spaces are worse for LF Isolation than two leaves of mass and one air space!Use the wallboard you planned on putting on the middle wall, and add it to your inside wall for increased mass :wink: Picture #3. Your basic idea is good here.You have to work out how to make your inside wall structurally safe from falling over without having hard contact with the concrete wall.Perhaps nail it down to your floating floor (build the floor first) and at the top of the wall frame..... make some DIY sway brackets that would perhaps bolt into your concrete wall and hold the stud wall via some neoprene rubber attached to the brackets. I hope this helps some cheers

Have a look here http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2553 and do a search in only the Construction forum on the word sway - check out the top 2 or 3 results for more. I'm off to work now, will add more later tonight... Steve

Sorry guys. I made you type all that stuff for nothing. The middle wall was a dumb mistake - wasn't supposed to be there :roll: Anyway, I've redisgned it leaving out the two "third" leafs which were the two sides with the concrete walls. Take a look.

This one is a side view of the concrete wall-side that doesn't have the egress window. Now with only two leafs. Should I cover the concrete with anything?

Also, what the proper way to cover up this egress window? No more posting, I'll wait for your replies. Thanks guys!

Well, I found the answer regarding the egress window. But, still not sure about what to put on the concrete. :?

That's better man.You've got the M-A-M (mass-air-mass) concept down right.Thats a great start! :) About covering concrete walls...It doesn't require any insulation on it, but I would check how your area is for humidity and see if you need any moisture barriers and stuff, since the outside dirt is pressing against your walls.See if you can get any information about the drainage that was(not) done around the basement walls when it was built.Cosidering that most of your studio is underground, it should be very good for your isolation!But be careful with the moisture!! Otherwise you're looking good I'd say, but take my comments with a grain of salt, Steve will be back in here soon I'm sure :wink: :!: cheers

Sen, thanks for the help. :) Well, I'm not moving into this house until 2 weeks, so I've only seen the basement [i]twice[/i]. But, here's what I know so far: The ground underneath the floor is covered with plastic and there is a fan under the flooring that is controlled by a humidistat. When the moisture level reaches a certain point, the fan kicks on and blows the moisture out of the basement. I can't quite remember if the fan pumps out the air that is beneath the floor or just the general air in the basement. Again, I'm really jumping the gun on this, but I'm just really anxous to get started on the planning. Another thing: that fan itself my be a noise nuasance. I'll have to deal with that later. And [i]another[/i] thing: I haven't yet looked for myself under that floor to see if anything else is holding it up or just how the joists are joined with the concrete. All important issues. As soon as I move in I'm gonna get pictures to show you guys. Of course, ultimately, I'll have to have a building inspector come over for the final word. So, we'll see how it goes. Thanks again for your input.

I agree with Sen on watching the moisture problem - the fan will help some. YOu can attach some lath to the inside surface of the frame so your insulation will press lightly on the inner gypsum panels, this will help damp the panels. I would be careful trying to float a floor with flat laid 2x's - this gives a really small air gap, and with wood floated over this you'll get a really high m-a-m frequency. This floor would need really good damping to keep from being really boomy, especially when sitting on another wood floor. Span on those 2x6 joists may also be a limiting factor in this - any idea of whether there are any concrete blocks supporting the 2x6's, and how far apart they might be? Steve

Steve, thanks. But, I'm not sure where you meant for the lath to go. On the concrete over insulation or in the back of the wall. IOW, first leaf or second. Also, are you saying I really don't need insulation on the concrete? See the drawing below. Thanks. Oh, and regarding your question about the joists and what's holding the floor up, I'll find out as soon as I move in in 2 weeks.

Yeah, that's where the lath should be - you want your insulation to press with light to medium pressure against the inside wallboard to damp any vibrations. the alternative would be to completely fill the cavity, but this also brings moisture control problems in basement situations. Your noisy fan could be replaced with a quieter one, http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/BB-3000.html (couldn't find a manual for this, but generally centrifugal fans are quieter than axial - or you could just wire the fan switch through a relay and control the relay with your record function - do a search here for midi relay, seems like I posted some stuff a month or two ago on doing this. If you don't find it, ask; it may have been on another board Never mind, found it - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2422 ... Steve

Knightfly, thanks the links. Gotta a few more questions: 1) Should I put anything on the concrete.? 2) Should the two outer leaf stud walls (on the north and east sides) also be decoupled from the joists above just like all the inner walls? And if so, do I need to use swat brackets on those as well as the inner walls? I'm not sure how to attach these outer walls to the joists above. 3) How am I gonna apply the lath? Glue it? Screw it? Thanks. I tried to find these answers in other threads but couldn't seem to find the answers I needed. :(

First, you should check out this thread http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1114 and see if it applies to you - if so, this is going to get expensive and time consuming or it will fail, near as I can tell. Stuff on concrete walls - depends on the dryness of your space, how it's drained/sealed already (see next links) http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/fulltext/prac ... c47024.pdf http://www.buildingscience.com/resource ... ystems.pdf Any wall that will NOT have Resilient Channel toward the sound room needs to be isolated from structure, especially at the top of a basement wall - otherwise, you'll get a lot of flanking into the rest of the house. See this link for more - http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2553 Outer walls arent critical if they are on separate frames - it's the inner wall surface that needs to be either RC'd or the frame floated. If you're short on space you can install the lath (screws) BEFORE you tip up the wall frame - another way might be to use a right angle drill such as the Makita, with a short screwdriver bit - this would still need at least 5" or so between the concrete and the face of the stud where the lath will be attached. Typical is that you build the frame on the floor in front of where the wall will go - then lay a bead of caulk across the floor where the frame will set, and tip up the frame. you only need to leave about 1/4" off total height between floor and ceiling joists for the frame to be able to tip up. Then, you can either get crazy with sway brackets or add shims and nail the frame to the ceiling joists - if you fasten the frame hard like that, you'll need to use RC for the wallboard on that wall. Ceilings should be suspended on RC INSIDE the walls if you want best isolation - otherwise, the ceiling wallboard will flank noise into adjacent areas... Steve

Thanks, Steve. I'm reading through those links now. But, let me show you a couple of drawings regarding attaching the outer wall leaf to the ceiling joists and whether using blocking is required. The first pic are the walls running parallel to the joists and the second is the outer wall running perpindicular to the joists.

Sorry, got as far as your post and need to leave for night shifts; I'll do more tomorrow eve - first, I'd swap your inner and outer wall construction, and swap the soundboard for another layer of (half-price, better mass) gypsum. This will give a couple dB better TL, but will also slightly improve bass absorption inside the room. I'll have to look at your other questions more tomorrow... Steve

Steve, I think I found the answer (yours) on another thread and I think I finally understand how to do this. I'm gonna post a drawing in a few minutes so that we can clearly communicate on this thing.

Is this right?

Oops, there is a mistake in the above pic. It shouldn't sat "2x4 blocking", it should just say "blocking". I know 2x4's won't fill the gap in 8" wide joists. Anyway, I hope you get the point. This next pic is the same thing but looking the direction of the joists. So, do you fill the blocking with gyp and insu?

Looks like you've got it down pretty good - but since wood framing is only about 85% as dense as gypsum, it's better if you extend the double gypsum as I've changed your drawing - this way, your outer leaf is continuous and part of structure, so doesn't need to be resilient; the inner leaf is decoupled from structure and is continuous also. As I mentioned, I would forget the sound board/celotex stuff and replace it with a layer of 1/2" gypsum between the two layers of 5/8 rock on the one side; then two layers of 5/8 on the other side, and you're set... Steve

Thanks, Steve. That's great help!!

One thing I didn't catch - since your ceiling will be only two layers of drywall, you would likely see better isolation by keeping each leaf at a consistent strength; this would mean moving that extra layer of 1/2 wallboard to the OUTER leaf, where your added ceiling mass would match it closer; that way, you'll have a heavier leaf for the outer, and a lighter one for the inner - this should also make for less bass trapping needed to balance things out, since the lighter inner wall should flex a bit more and act (a little bit) as a panel bass trap... Steve