New Vocal Booth Build

We hung the double drywall on the back and mudded the joint before sliding it up closer to the wall.

My biggest concern so far is that you set it partially on top of a rug. How are you going to caulk the booth to the floor with rug there? It needs to be air tight and I'm concerned that the rug is going to screw that up.

I learned today though that the glass/window business in town can't get laminate glass thicker than 1/4in though. Ugh. How do we think 2 sheets of 1/4in glass will do. I know for the mass of a double drywall you want closer to 3/8-1/2. How would a double paned 1/4in perform?

I had a hard time finding some places that could get me thick laminated glass as well. But I found it at a handful of commercial supply places. If you're doing one leaf of double 5/8" drywall, you're going to get ~32.93dB of isolation. Green Glue Compound would improve that some for sure. If you're placing your glass in a 2x4 frame, I'm just estimating here that you would leave 1/2" for wood stops, then the glass which is 1/4" thick. That means on each side of the 2x4, you're going to eat up 3/4" for stops and glass. So, that means a total of 1 1/2" of stops and glass. That leaves a 2" gap between the sheets of glass. Punching those numbers into the TL calculator, you're getting ~32.93dB around 80 Hz. Of course the isolation gets way better than that at higher frequencies. So in conclusion, the 1/4" glass would be fine. Greg

My biggest concern so far is that you set it partially on top of a rug. How are you going to caulk the booth to the floor with rug there? It needs to be air tight and I'm concerned that the rug is going to screw that up.

What rug are you referring to? It’s currently set on super thin tile that is stuck to the concrete. The plan all along was to install that black underlay below the booth to sit on the floor to create a seal. I was going to caulk the inside of the booth at the frame bottom onto the underlay before putting down the booth floor. I could also technically run the underlay a bit further on all sides and caulk it to the booth on the outside. I had never planned on caulking to the floor and this is the first I heard of it. I thought caulking to the underlay would work based on your thumbs up a while ago. Or did I misunderstand?

If you're doing one leaf of double 5/8" drywall, you're going to get ~32.93dB of isolation. Green Glue Compound would improve that some for sure. If you're placing your glass in a 2x4 frame, I'm just estimating here that you would leave 1/2" for wood stops, then the glass which is 1/4" thick. That means on each side of the 2x4, you're going to eat up 3/4" for stops and glass. So, that means a total of 1 1/2" of stops and glass. That leaves a 2" gap between the sheets of glass. Punching those numbers into the TL calculator, you're getting ~32.93dB around 80 Hz. Of course the isolation gets way better than that at higher frequencies. So in conclusion, the 1/4" glass would be fine.

Awesome! Where is the TL calculator? I was using Rod’s book for the measurements. I didn’t see in my search on the site, but I probably punched the wrong thing into the search bar. Lol. Also, I was going to double drywall the one side to start, then if it isn’t sufficient, I was going to drywall the inside as well, so I could end up with higher that 32.93. However, that’s not bad at 80Hz, especially as it’ll get into the 40s higher up. Thanks again Greg! Matt

I found your MSM TL Calculator! This is awesome. Thank you! :) Matt

What rug are you referring to?

Sorry, the different colored tile looks like a throw rug to me! :?

I thought caulking to the underlay would work based on your thumbs up a while ago. Or did I misunderstand?

That should work yep!

I found your MSM TL Calculator! This is awesome. Thank you! :)

I'm glad you're finding it useful! Greg

Sorry, the different colored tile looks like a throw rug to me! :?

Haha. Fair enough!

That should work yep!

Awesome! I was thinking: if I run it just slightly past the frame on all sides and caulk from the frame to the underlay, that seems to be the easiest overall, eh? Speaking of caulking, I spent a long time trying to sort out exactly how to deal with that and the drywalling. Read up a bunch in Rod’s book and searched here a ton. Just to make sure I’m not missing anything: I install the first layer of drywall and can caulk the whole perimeter of it, yes? Should I be mudding the first layer as well, or jut the second. I remembered reading that only the second was needed with proper caulking, but other posts suggest otherwise. Also, do I need to caulk on the back as well for the drywall (Rod says something about caulking the edges, but I didn’t quite get if that was the back or the perimeter)? Or is doing each layer of drywall on the perimeter (2 layers) and the underlay to frame enough?

I'm glad you're finding it useful!

I certainly am! Though question about the graph. The TL for the drywall says 32.93dB like you mentioned. You had said that was for 80Hz yes? The graph seems to be way lower at the 80Hz point and is a straight line up. Is there something I am missing? Also, fire code drywall is denser. Does it make much more of a difference? Thanks again! Matt

Speaking of caulking, I spent a long time trying to sort out exactly how to deal with that and the drywalling. Read up a bunch in Rod’s book and searched here a ton. Just to make sure I’m not missing anything: I install the first layer of drywall and can caulk the whole perimeter of it, yes? Should I be mudding the first layer as well, or jut the second. I remembered reading that only the second was needed with proper caulking, but other posts suggest otherwise. Also, do I need to caulk on the back as well for the drywall (Rod says something about caulking the edges, but I didn’t quite get if that was the back or the perimeter)? Or is doing each layer of drywall on the perimeter (2 layers) and the underlay to frame enough?

The concept of caulking here is to ensure 2 things. The first being an air tight seal. So, if that means putting caulk on the entire frame before you put up the drywall, then do that. If you think you can guarantee a perfect seal by just doing the perimeter, then do that. The second point of caulk here is to fill any gaps to ensure the surface density is not compromised anywhere. Caulk has roughly twice the surface density that drywall has so as long as your caulk is at least half as thick as the drywall, you're good to go.

The TL for the drywall says 32.93dB like you mentioned. You had said that was for 80Hz yes? The graph seems to be way lower at the 80Hz point and is a straight line up. Is there something I am missing? Also, fire code drywall is denser. Does it make much more of a difference?

The 32.93dB is the overall measurement. It's not for each frequency band. The drywall surface density the calculator uses is an average surface density for fire code drywall. Greg

The concept of caulking here is to ensure 2 things. The first being an air tight seal. So, if that means putting caulk on the entire frame before you put up the drywall, then do that. If you think you can guarantee a perfect seal by just doing the perimeter, then do that. The second point of caulk here is to fill any gaps to ensure the surface density is not compromised anywhere. Caulk has roughly twice the surface density that drywall has so as long as your caulk is at least half as thick as the drywall, you're good to go.

Great. Thanks for that! I put the first wall up without caulking, so I will have to generously do the perimeter. I will likely caulk the frame for the others, just to play it safe, then also do the perimeter.

The 32.93dB is the overall measurement. It's not for each frequency band. The drywall surface density the calculator uses is an average surface density for fire code drywall.

Gotcha. I was trying to see if I missed something since you said "32.93dB around 80hz." Thanks again! Tomorrow is likely round two of building. Hoping to get the ceiling frame built, get some drywall up, and caulk a bunch. Still working on seeing if I can get anything thicker than 1/4in glass (got a lead from a contractor friend I'm gonna follow up on) and need to source a decent solid core door. For the gasketing, is there anywhere in Canada that sells the Chrysler Type K Stuff Rod talks about in his book? Or a potential replacement? I couldn't find any info. Sorry if I missed it in the stickies! Also, I saw your silencer box measurements for single path. Awesome! And I think I will plan to add one to the booth, though it may need to be a little down the road. Assuming I don't add any inner wall for now, I assume I can just remove the insulation from the one section, cut a hole through the drywall to mount the silencer box from the outside, then run it into a baffle box on the inside? I've been reading through some of the different threads, and not gonna lie, it is all a little confusing as I feel like I'm coming into the middle of a discussion other people understand the first part of. Thanks Greg! Matt

Gotcha. I was trying to see if I missed something since you said "32.93dB around 80hz."

Sorry about that. Here is the TL a single leaf of 5/8" drywall would provide at 1/3rd octave frequencies:

Assuming I don't add any inner wall for now, I assume I can just remove the insulation from the one section, cut a hole through the drywall to mount the silencer box from the outside, then run it into a baffle box on the inside?

If I'm following you correctly, yes. Regarding the glass, I tweaked out the calculator and here are some values for the glass to compare. Note, the flanking limit of a concrete slab is ~70dB so I'm sure your wooden frame will be less than that: Greg

No worries. Thanks so much Greg. So, my attempt to source glass thicker than 1/4 laminate so far has been unsuccessful. The local glass company is calling around to alternate suppliers to see what they can do for me. I was thinking I may end up going with thicker annealed, since Rod said that it will still work, just not as well as laminate of the same thickness. Maybe 1/2in annealed and 1/4in laminate? What do you think Greg? Also, day 2 of building. Pic included (sorry for the random drywall leaning on the front). Shortened the booth slightly as it was too big for the space, then set it on ad caulked it to the underlay. Built the ceiling, installed drywall on the ceiling and started with the side walls. I picked up 12 tubes of the DAP 230 you suggested. Went through half of it between the drywall, frame, backer rod, and sealing it to the underlay. But hey, should be airtight. Better an extra few tubes rather than not getting an airtight seal! Day 3 should have most of the rest of the drywall up and the electrical boxes installed. From there, I need to sort window and door. Might need to end up building a door, as I can't seem to find a good solid core that isn't paneled (though I suppose I could still use one of those with the sheet lead and plywood, yes?) Thoughts/suggestions so far? Thanks again! Matt

Maybe 1/2in annealed and 1/4in laminate? What do you think Greg?

Rod is one of the masters, so trust what he says :thu:

Thoughts/suggestions so far?

Great work! It looks amazing. I bet it feels good to see it come to life hey?!!!!

as I can't seem to find a good solid core that isn't paneled

It looks like Thunder Bay is the closest Windsor Plywood to you (I'm not sure where in Ontario you are), but I had to look around forever to find one as well. My friend bought one and it is great. Hopefully you could find a place near by that can get these in for you. They actually come with veneer if you'd like as well. However, since we usually add an extra sheet or two of MDF to the slab to add mass and get the bank vault style sealing, a primed hardboard makes sense and is cheaper. https://www.windsorplywood.com/product/ ... ard-doors/ Also, while we are mentioning doors and the fact that you're in Ontario, the door seals that people try so hard to get are easily bought in Ontario at: http://www.faccafasteners.com/ The model is 4731 weatherstrip. Great work Matt! Greg

Rod is one of the masters, so trust what he says

Truth, haha! And yeah, I saw his response in a post re: glass saying that if you can't find thick laminate, go with annealed. "Don't sweat the small stuff."

Great work! It looks amazing. I bet it feels good to see it come to life hey?!!!!

Thanks! And yes it does! Still work to do, but I'm hoping it'll be up and running by the end of the month.

It looks like Thunder Bay is the closest Windsor Plywood to you (I'm not sure where in Ontario you are), but I had to look around forever to find one as well. My friend bought one and it is great. Hopefully you could find a place near by that can get these in for you. They actually come with veneer if you'd like as well. However, since we usually add an extra sheet or two of MDF to the slab to add mass and get the bank vault style sealing, a primed hardboard makes sense and is cheaper.

Awesome! I'll check if any of my local stores can get it in. I live in a small town 2hrs from Toronto, so Thunder Bay is a bit of a haul, haha. Hopefully one of them can order it in. If not, would something like this work, assuming I can get it in solid core? https://www.rona.ca/en/hardboard-door-3 ... e-61406696

Also, while we are mentioning doors and the fact that you're in Ontario, the door seals that people try so hard to get are easily bought in Ontario at: http://www.faccafasteners.com/ The model is 4731 weatherstrip.

Amazing! London is only 2hrs away, and we go down there every month or two. I just called and they are gonna check to see if they have it in stock for me. Speaking of sealing the door, I was gonna ask: My current plan is to leave the 2x4 floor plate whole (instead of cutting it at to the floor). There will be a lip to walk over, which doesn't bother me, but it will mean I don't need to by a gasket system for the door. I was thinking of installing the 1inch door stop the whole way around the frame and using the weatherstripping on all four sides. Thoughts? If it works, it seems like it will save a fair amount of money for the door while still maintaining the same quality seal. Thanks again for all your help! I appreciate it. Matt

If not, would something like this work, assuming I can get it in solid core? https://www.rona.ca/en/hardboard-door-3 ... e-61406696

Yes.

I was thinking of installing the 1inch door stop the whole way around the frame and using the weatherstripping on all four sides. Thoughts? If it works, it seems like it will save a fair amount of money for the door while still maintaining the same quality seal.

For sure! You could even cut down the plate to like 3/4" by just running a circular saw over it a million times and then use a chisel to get the edges and smooth it out. That could give you a bit more height for your door and also have less to walk over. Check out this thread where I helped my buddy do his door (we haven't installed the stops and 4731 yet). viewtopic.php?f=10&t=21704 Greg

Yes

Great! Also, I called Windsor Plywood in Thunder Bay. They are just a reseller of the same doors most people carry he said (Metrie, etc...). I priced out a 1 3/8in flat solid core slab at my local Rona for $125. Seems reasonable I think. Will probably go with that as the basis.

For sure! You could even cut down the plate to like 3/4" by just running a circular saw over it a million times and then use a chisel to get the edges and smooth it out. That could give you a bit more height for your door and also have less to walk over. Check out this thread where I helped my buddy do his door (we haven't installed the stops and 4731 yet).

Genius! Thanks for that. I may well do that with the floor plate to lower it. Matt

Matt, also see if you can find Hager BB1168 door hinges near you. They are a fraction of the price compared to the Stanley FBB168. That's what Darren used for his doors. Greg

Great! I'll check into those. This is all that is readily available near me for commercial grade door hinges (though I might be able to source some from local contracting companies). https://www.homehardware.ca/en/search?q ... oor+hinges I will see if I can find those Hager ones somewhere nearby or easy to ship though, as they look good. For the glass, due to the lack of thick laminate, I think I'll end up doing 1/4in laminate and 1/2in float since that seems to be the best I can get. I did have a thought though. I assume they operate as 2 panes, but if I put 2 1/4in panes right up against each other, would that be similar to a 1/2in? I would of course still put another pane of glass 2 inches away for the double pane and air gap. I was also thinking I would mount the window on wider wood (2x6 most likely) to allow me to place the panes farther apart, as the 2x6 would still fit the 2x4 frame plus 10/8in of drywall on either side. It would allow me to get an air gap of 3 or more inches though. I feel like that would be a better idea, as the extra air space would allow for greater isolation. Or am I totally off base here? Thanks again! Matt

if I put 2 1/4in panes right up against each other, would that be similar to a 1/2in?

I'd be concerned that unless they are laminated there might be some air caught between them that would act as a very small resonant cavity. I've never thought of it until now so maybe someone can chime in with some wisdom on this topic.

I was also thinking I would mount the window on wider wood (2x6 most likely) to allow me to place the panes farther apart, as the 2x6 would still fit the 2x4 frame plus 10/8in of drywall on either side. It would allow me to get an air gap of 3 or more inches though. I feel like that would be a better idea, as the extra air space would allow for greater isolation. Or am I totally off base here?

The bigger the gap, the better the isolation. Greg

I'd be concerned that unless they are laminated there might be some air caught between them that would act as a very small resonant cavity. I've never thought of it until now so maybe someone can chime in with some wisdom on this topic.

Yeah, I was worried about something like that. Hrm... I mean, I could always by the plastic resin and make my own laminated glass in the oven, haha! Probably unwise though. Likely gonna be one pane laminate and one annealed.

The bigger the gap, the better the isolation.

:thu: Awesome. Thanks! Matt

So I got the solid core door from Rona. It is Jeld-Wen brand. 1 3/8in. I will definitely add mass to it via mdf and likely some sheet lead, like Rod suggested. Seems easier and a little less daunting than the sand door for me. The door arrives next Thursday. I also called Facca Fasteners. They had some of the weatherstripping in stock. I had to buy 50ft of it, lol. Not cheap (almost $100 for it), but hey! At least I have it now, and extra for later if it ever gets damaged. Thanks for that suggestion! Once I have the glass for the window, that should be all for the basic setup! Put up some more drywall today. Hopefully finishing the drywall and electrical tomorrow, then next week will be the window and door and roxul inside! Matt

I also called Facca Fasteners. They had some of the weatherstripping in stock. I had to buy 50ft of it, lol. Not cheap (almost $100 for it), but hey! At least I have it now, and extra for later if it ever gets damaged. Thanks for that suggestion!

I hear ya! I think I have about 300 feet sitting here! Shipping to Western Canada wasn't cheap either :( The one thing we haven't covered in your build is how to close the door! I recommend the following closer (which is also expensive like everything else in the build!). There are several Amre stores near you. Taymor 1900 Series Door Closer Taymor Adjustable Power Fire Rated Door Closer, Grade 1, Universal Mount, 266 Lbs, 11-1/8" $180.19 https://www.amresupply.com/part/13-1900 ... UXE-CLOSER Greg

I hear ya! I think I have about 300 feet sitting here! Shipping to Western Canada wasn't cheap either :(

Oof! That would be pricey! You could become the western Canada reseller for other booth builders, haha! Facca was actually great for me. One of their reps lives up toward my area and does business around here, so he is going to bring it up next week free of charge. I'll just need to drive 30mins. Beats paying for shipping.

The one thing we haven't covered in your build is how to close the door! I recommend the following closer (which is also expensive like everything else in the build!). There are several Amre stores near you.

Awesome! You sent the link a while back I believe. It is a buff closer! I'll take a look at who is nearby and see what they have in stock. My local home hardware also has a Grade 3 (400000 uses vs the 2mil for Grade 1) Commercial door closer rated for 187lbs. They think it would likely serve. Given that my door isn't going to be a 300lbs sand door, how to we feel about that? Doesn't hurt that it is also half the price. We've already reached the $1000 before the door closer and a couple other things, so I'm trying to see where I can save a bit of money without sacrificing meaningful performance. https://www.homehardware.ca/en/4-commer ... lts%20page More drywall put up today. Only 4 sheets left! Thanks Greg! Matt

One of their reps lives up toward my area and does business around here, so he is going to bring it up next week free of charge. I'll just need to drive 30mins. Beats paying for shipping.

That's awesome! To even the playing field, I can get OC703 about 15 min away 8) It seems a lot of people have troubles finding it. I guess we win some and lose a lot.

My local home hardware also has a Grade 3 (400000 uses vs the 2mil for Grade 1) Commercial door closer rated for 187lbs. They think it would likely serve. Given that my door isn't going to be a 300lbs sand door, how to we feel about that? Doesn't hurt that it is also half the price.

Of course I'd hate to tell you "Yes!, go buy that one!" because I can't guarantee it will work well or not. But, if I were you, I would probably go for the Home Hardware one and expect it to work fine. Greg

That's awesome! To even the playing field, I can get OC703 about 15 min away 8) It seems a lot of people have troubles finding it. I guess we win some and lose a lot.

Yeah eh? Nice to have it close for you!

Of course I'd hate to tell you "Yes!, go buy that one!" because I can't guarantee it will work well or not. But, if I were you, I would probably go for the Home Hardware one and expect it to work fine.

That’s what I was thinking. Thanks! Also, day 3 done. All the drywall is up,, insulation is in walls, electrical is installed! Window and door next week. Also, question re: ceiling insulation. They recommended using vapour barrier to hold it up, but seeing as it is an airtight space, I feel like that could be problematic with the humidity. What do you think? Thanks, and stay safe amidst all that is going on! Matt

Also, question re: ceiling insulation. They recommended using vapour barrier to hold it up, but seeing as it is an airtight space, I feel like that could be problematic with the humidity. What do you think?

Sorry, who is "they"? John recommends putting up a super thin plastic film to keep fibers from falling. Personally, I'm not afraid of it and have been working in rooms filled with insulation that is only covered by fabric for many years pretty much every single day. But maybe I'm an idiot for doing so. My biggest concern with covering it is high frequency reflections. I'd like to hear some more opinions on both the pros and cons of having it as well as any installation recommendations such as material and placement. Greg

Sorry, who is "they"? John recommends putting up a super thin plastic film to keep fibers from falling. Personally, I'm not afraid of it and have been working in rooms filled with insulation that is only covered by fabric for many years pretty much every single day. But maybe I'm an idiot for doing so. My biggest concern with covering it is high frequency reflections. I'd like to hear some more opinions on both the pros and cons of having it as well as any installation recommendations such as material and placement.

Sorry about that. Should've been more clear. My friend who has been building it with me and general recommendation of construction folks for the ceiling. No one who does vocal booth building, which is why I thought I'd check. Personally, I'm more in your camp. Was thinking of maybe finding a mesh type thing and then putting the cloth over it, but not a plastic sheeting. Thanks! Matt

Was thinking of maybe finding a mesh type thing and then putting the cloth over it, but not a plastic sheeting.

Mesh would be great. If you're careful cutting the insulation, you can probably get away with just putting the fabric up and not worry about the insulation sagging or falling out. If the insulation is loose, some cheap string stapled onto the ceiling joists will hold it up too. Greg