UK - Single Garage studio build plan

Hello all. I have a couple of questions. I am not new to building a studio as I have had a brick built studio in my old house, which was built with very little knowledge, but it somehow was nicely sound proof :). My new situation is I have a Garage 6m X 2.5M x 2.4m H internally Please excuse my rough draft drawing but im only playing with layout ideas right now: https://s5.postimg.org/3qrar8aeb/outline.png https://s5.postimg.org/li2x5opsz/sat_shot.png I am planning to build a room within this structure and have some very noob questions for this design. I have read the FAQ and own the Rod Gervais book which is great! but I’m missing a few things. I will summarise the questions at the end but here is some background on my plan. I make bass heavy music and neighbors are a concern but no houses are nearer than 15 – 20M from my Garage. It is a block of 6 garages in an L shape they are only used for Storage and Cars so no immediate issue internally that I know of. The plan is to use 150mm x 50mm batten with single outer skin of 5/8 plaster board Rockwall then RC + 2 layers of plaster with GG . (Unlike my pics attached). The frame will be approx. 2” from the single brick wall. For the ceiling, I will be building this on top of the frame with 2 layers of board on Hat channel. Again filled with rock wall. The floor slab is probably 4" think and from what Rob Gervis says a floating floor is often pointless and can add more resonance in the room. I might at least put a self-leveling screed down for the walls to sit on with rubber underneath. The door is at the side of the garage and I plan to have a double door with a solid internal door on the inner frame the external door will be a steel door that I hope to be insulated I am working on sourcing one. The part of the Garage at the front (1.5m into the building) I will put a block wall for security and extra STC hopefully. That’s the long and short, My actual questions are: 1. I need to find out if i need to fix the walls to the floor if so that means I need to breach the concrete floor and possible a DPC that will allow damp to rise up. Is there a solution to this anyone has come across? 2. When joing frames together, (each wall and ceiling) is it best to but the shorter walls to the end of the longer walls or maybe use a fence post as a joining member? 3. Is using Nails to build the frames normal as I always use screws for this kind of job. In the UK we have screws in everything  Thank you to anyone that can give some advise on my noob questions.

Welcome back, "dsp"! It's been 9 years! Is this still the same place as in your original thread, from 12 years back?

I have a Garage 6m X 2.5M x 2.4m H internally

Construction? How is that built? Materials, thickness, walls, floor, ceiling, doors, windows, etc...

The plan is to use 150mm x 50mm batten with single outer skin of 5/8 plaster board Rockwall then RC + 2 layers of plaster with GG . (Unlike my pics attached). The frame will be approx. 2” from the single brick wall.

. I'm not sure I understand that correctly, but it seems that you are proposing to build a three-leaf wall? If I got that straight, then from outside to inside you would have: Brick - 2" air gap - 5/8 plasterboard - 50 x 150 "battens" (studs?) - resilient channel - 2 layers plasterboard. Is that it? If so, that's a 3-leaf system, with all the associated downside. Is there a reason why you cannot just build it as a 2-leaf?

For the ceiling, I will be building this on top of the frame with 2 layers of board on Hat channel.

Hat channel is not structural. You cannot use it in place of joists. It absolutely cannot handle such a huge load without being attached to joists.

Again filled with rock wall

I think you mean "Rockwool", not rock wall? Rockwool is a trademark for a specific brand of mineral wool insulatio. You can use any brand of mineral wool, or you could also use any brand of fiberglass insulation, as long as it is in the correct density range.

a floating floor is often pointless and can add more resonance in the room

Yep! Very true: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173

I might at least put a self-leveling screed down for the walls to sit on...

Based on that, I assume that the current slab is in lousy condition? Cracked? Flaked? Pitted? Stained?

... with rubber underneath

Why? Is that just for sealing the walls to the floor, or are you attempting to float your walls? Floating walls is just as hard as floating floors: lots of math involved! Do you have the characteristics of the rubber, so you can plug them into the equations? DO you know what the Shore hardness is (durometer), and what scale that was measured on? Do you know the numbers for the compressive modulus, static deflection range, compressive stiffness, shear modulus, etc.? What shape factor are you considering? ... lots of work ahead if you want to float your walls... On the other hand, there's no need to do that at all. You have an isolated concrete slab on grade: The flanking limit is likely somewhere around 70 dB, so it's very improbable that you'd need to float your walls, or your floor.

The door is at the side of the garage and I plan to have a double door

Do you mean "double door" in the sense of two doors, back to back, one in each leaf? Or do you mean doors that meet in the middle in only one leaf?

the external door will be a steel door that I hope to be insulated

Nope. "Insulated steel door" implies "hollow core door". Bad idea: that's a resonant cavity in there. All of your doors should be solid. Nothing hollow.

The part of the Garage at the front (1.5m into the building) I will put a block wall for security and extra STC hopefully.

Not sure I understand that: What do you mean by "part at the front"? Why do you need that block wall there "for security"? Is there no door on that end of the building? Building a concrete block wall implies that it needs support underneath: You will need to get a structural engineer to take a look and tell you if you can do that safely on your existing slab, or if you will need to cut a slice out of the slab and pour a proper footing / foundation for that wall to rest on. That's a LOT of weight in that wall...

I need to find out if i need to fix the walls to the floor

Check your local building code, or better still ask the inspector who will approve your construction at the various stages, but almost certainly you will need to do that legally, and even if it is not a legal requirement, it's a common-sense requirement. There will be vibrations and large pressure changes affecting those walls, not to mention impact from opening and closing doors. All of those can cause walls to "walk". You are not in a major seismic area as far as I can tell (I am!), so that' likley isn't an issue, but you should still anchor your walls firmly to the floor.

if so that means I need to breach the concrete floor and possible a DPC that will allow damp to rise up.

I don't understand: Why would you need to breach the DPC? You say the slab is 4" thick: why do you think you'd need to go all the way through that and out the other side? Your anchor bolts only need to go a couple of inches into the slab. Nowhere near the DPC. So your comment is rather confusing: Please explain why you are concerned about penetrating the DPC?

Is there a solution to this anyone has come across?

Yes! Don't penetrate the DPC! :)

2. When joing frames together, (each wall and ceiling) is it best to but the shorter walls to the end of the longer walls or maybe use a fence post as a joining member?

Just follow normal framing practices for two walls that meet at right-angles. No special requirements. I'm not sure what you mean by "fence posts" either: fence posts are usually round, but you need rectangular section lumber for your framing. If you have a place where a 2x4 isn't sufficient for whatever reason, then use 2x6, or 4x4, or whatever, as needed. Door headers often need to be 2x6 in structural (load-bearing) walls, for example, and joists might need to be 2x8, or even more (depending on span, spacing, dead load, and live load). But corners are usually built up from ordinary 2x4's.

3. Is using Nails to build the frames normal as I always use screws for this kind of job. In the UK we have screws in everything

Nails are fine, but if you prefer to use screws, and that's the normal way of doing it in the UK, then screws are fine too. It just takes a hell of a lot longer to screw everything together. With a good framing nailer, I can have the entire wall framed and sheathed before you even get your first stud screwed in place! But check your local code to find out what is allowed. If nailing is OK, make sure you use the approved type and length of nail, and the correct schedule. Otherwise your framing inspector could fail you, and you'd need to do it again... - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Welcome back, "dsp"! It's been 9 years! Is this still the same place as in your original thread, from 12 years back?

Hello Soundman2020 thanks for the response, No I have just moved house hence new studio time :)

I have a Garage 6m X 2.5M x 2.4m H internally

Construction? How is that built? Materials, thickness, walls, floor, ceiling, doors, windows, etc...

Outside wall is single brick, internal walls are standard block 440 X 215 x 100mm 1 door Wooden currently 950mm x 2100 x 100mm Floor is concrete but a bit rough on the finish so its not smooth flat. The roof is a pitched roof but im building up to the rafter of that makes sense so my structure does not touch the triangular structure above. I doubt it could take any more load than the roof it is holding up.

The plan is to use 150mm x 50mm batten with single outer skin of 5/8 plaster board Rockwall then RC + 2 layers of plaster with GG . (Unlike my pics attached). The frame will be approx. 2” from the single brick wall..

I'm not sure I understand that correctly, but it seems that you are proposing to build a three-leaf wall? If I got that straight, then from outside to inside you would have: Brick - 2" air gap - 5/8 plasterboard - 50 x 150 "battens" (studs?) - resilient channel - 2 layers plasterboard. Is that it? If so, that's a 3-leaf system, with all the associated downside. Is there a reason why you cannot just build it as a 2-leaf?

Forgive my bad terminology. You are correct in the layout the 50X150mm are for the top and bottom of the frame. 2X4” for the studs with staggered layout so the outside leaf is on the outside stud and the inner on the inner stud. Hey 2 leaf is cheaper than 3 so the fact im using RC I only require 1 layer internally?

For the ceiling, I will be building this on top of the frame with 2 layers of board on Hat channel.

Hat channel is not structural. You cannot use it in place of joists. It absolutely cannot handle such a huge load without being attached to joists.

Sorry omitted the frame will support the channel across the joists

Again filled with rock wall

I think you mean "Rockwool", not rock wall? Rockwool is a trademark for a specific brand of mineral wool insulatio. You can use any brand of mineral wool, or you could also use any brand of fiberglass insulation, as long as it is in the correct density range.

Rockwool or equivalent yes I do have a spell checker that is not working for me here.

a floating floor is often pointless and can add more resonance in the room

Yep! Very true: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173

I might at least put a self-leveling screed down for the walls to sit on...

Based on that, I assume that the current slab is in lousy condition? Cracked? Flaked? Pitted? Stained?

Its rough and would not give a 100% flush fit for the base plate of the walls.

... with rubber underneath

Why? Is that just for sealing the walls to the floor, or are you attempting to float your walls? Floating walls is just as hard as floating floors: lots of math involved! Do you have the characteristics of the rubber, so you can plug them into the equations? DO you know what the Shore hardness is (durometer), and what scale that was measured on? Do you know the numbers for the compressive modulus, static deflection range, compressive stiffness, shear modulus, etc.? What shape factor are you considering? ... lots of work ahead if you want to float your walls...

Just to seal the base of the walls

On the other hand, there's no need to do that at all. You have an isolated concrete slab on grade: The flanking limit is likely somewhere around 70 dB, so it's very improbable that you'd need to float your walls, or your floor.

The door is at the side of the garage and I plan to have a double door

Do you mean "double door" in the sense of two doors, back to back, one in each leaf? Or do you mean doors that meet in the middle in only one leaf?

2 doors air cavity between. 2 doors back to back

the external door will be a steel door that I hope to be insulated

Nope. "Insulated steel door" implies "hollow core door". Bad idea: that's a resonant cavity in there. All of your doors should be solid. Nothing hollow.

Great thanks for that too!

The part of the Garage at the front (1.5m into the building) I will put a block wall for security and extra STC hopefully.

Not sure I understand that: What do you mean by "part at the front"? Why do you need that block wall there "for security"? Is there no door on that end of the building? Building a concrete block wall implies that it needs support underneath: You will need to get a structural engineer to take a look and tell you if you can do that safely on your existing slab, or if you will need to cut a slice out of the slab and pour a proper footing / foundation for that wall to rest on. That's a LOT of weight in that wall...

OK that’s interesting as I had originally planned to build the whole outter skin of block. I guess that would have been a disaster. It holds the weight of a 2 tonn car but I guess a wall is a different ball game.

I need to find out if i need to fix the walls to the floor

Check your local building code, or better still ask the inspector who will approve your construction at the various stages, but almost certainly you will need to do that legally, and even if it is not a legal requirement, it's a common-sense requirement. There will be vibrations and large pressure changes affecting those walls, not to mention impact from opening and closing doors. All of those can cause walls to "walk". You are not in a major seismic area as far as I can tell (I am!), so that' likley isn't an issue, but you should still anchor your walls firmly to the floor.

Yes it makes sense! No in the UK a magnitude 0.5 would be front page news.

if so that means I need to breach the concrete floor and possible a DPC that will allow damp to rise up.

I don't understand: Why would you need to breach the DPC? You say the slab is 4" thick: why do you think you'd need to go all the way through that and out the other side? Your anchor bolts only need to go a couple of inches into the slab. Nowhere near the DPC. So your comment is rather confusing: Please explain why you are concerned about penetrating the DPC?

Is there a solution to this anyone has come across?

Yes! Don't penetrate the DPC! :)

I just assumed I would need a fair but of anchorage!

2. When joing frames together, (each wall and ceiling) is it best to but the shorter walls to the end of the longer walls or maybe use a fence post as a joining member?

Just follow normal framing practices for two walls that meet at right-angles. No special requirements. I'm not sure what you mean by "fence posts" either: fence posts are usually round, but you need rectangular section lumber for your framing. If you have a place where a 2x4 isn't sufficient for whatever reason, then use 2x6, or 4x4, or whatever, as needed. Door headers often need to be 2x6 in structural (load-bearing) walls, for example, and joists might need to be 2x8, or even more (depending on span, spacing, dead load, and live load). But corners are usually built up from ordinary 2x4's.

Fence posts are 4” square here. But that’s fine just worried about the 2 layers in the corners.

3. Is using Nails to build the frames normal as I always use screws for this kind of job. In the UK we have screws in everything

Nails are fine, but if you prefer to use screws, and that's the normal way of doing it in the UK, then screws are fine too. It just takes a hell of a lot longer to screw everything together. With a good framing nailer, I can have the entire wall framed and sheathed before you even get your first stud screwed in place! But check your local code to find out what is allowed. If nailing is OK, make sure you use the approved type and length of nail, and the correct schedule. Otherwise your framing inspector could fail you, and you'd need to do it again...

Nails for speed. I like that! Thank you for all of your points. I did say I was a noob.

Thank you for all of your points. I did say I was a noob.

No problem with that at all! That's what the forum is all about: helping out people who don't yet know how to do it all. After all, if you already knew all this stuff, then you wouldn't be here!! :) So ask away....

The roof is a pitched roof but im building up to the rafter of that makes sense so my structure does not touch the triangular structure above.

Correct! Your inner-leaf wall should end just short of the joists on your roof trusses. There should be no contact there. The new wall must not touch the existing joists.

I doubt it could take any more load than the roof it is holding up.

How is that roof built at present? Materials, details, photos...

You are correct in the layout the 50X150mm are for the top and bottom of the frame. 2X4” for the studs with staggered layout so the outside leaf is on the outside stud and the inner on the inner stud.

Once again, this is isn't making sense, and it is looking more and more like you are building a 3-leaf wall. 3-leaf is always worse than 2-leaf, all other factors being equal. So for the same total thickness and same total mass of the wall, three-leaf will give you WORSE isolation than two leaf. I'm not sure why want to build three-leaf.

Hey 2 leaf is cheaper than 3

so why are you building 3? :)

so the fact im using RC I only require 1 layer internally?

No. Don't confuse layers with leaves! A leaf can be made up from many layers, but it is still just one leaf. A leaf that has a layer of 19mm OSB plus two layers of 16mm drywall (plasterboard) with Green Glue in between, is still just a single leaf. You might need several layers on your inner-leaf to get the amount of mass that you need for your wall. More mass = more isolation. More mass = lower MSM resonant frequency. So once you know what frequency to shoot for, and how much isolation you need, then you can figure out how much mass you need on your inner-leaf.

Sorry omitted the frame will support the channel across the joists

Have you calculated the dimensions of those joists? Based on the span, and the type of wood, and the deflection, and the dead load, and the live load, you can work out how big they need to be, and what spacing you need to use. If you don't know how to do that, then call in a structural engineer to tell you. Don't guess! Hanging hundreds of kg of materials above your head based on guesswork, is a dangerous thing....

Its rough and would not give a 100% flush fit for the base plate of the walls.

That's what caulk is for! :) If the surface is just rough, then the caulk will take care of that. But if it is uneven, cracked, flaked, etc. then you might need to level it, with self-leveling cement. In which case, you would not need rubber, since the caulk would be fine...

OK that’s interesting as I had originally planned to build the whole outter skin of block.

Huh???? So the garage does not actually exist at all yet? But I thought you said that it DOES exist! You said; "Outside wall is single brick,". Which implies that the outer leaf already exists.... So now I'm confused... If the outer leaf already exists, then why do you want to build it again with block? Not getting it..... So let's start again: You have an existing garage whose exterior walls are built from a single wythe of common brick. Correct? And on top of those existing walls, are roof trusses that support the roof above, correct? And under your feet you have a 4" concrete slab, correct? All of that already exists, right now? None of it needs to be built? So that's your outer shell, your outer leaf, the first leaf in your two-leaf system. Are we on the same page so far?

It holds the weight of a 2 tonn car but I guess a wall is a different ball game.

Concrete weighs about 2300 kg per cubic meter. so a wall 5m wide, 3m high, and 20cm thick will weigh around 7,000 kg... Nearly four times what your car weighs. And that's just one wall, without considering the ceiling that rests on top of it...

I just assumed I would need a fair but of anchorage!

You will, but it would be silly to put bolts all the way through the slab and down into the ground below...

Fence posts are 4” square here.

4" square, or 4x4? Not the same thing... :) a 4" square post would be no use if you are using 4x framing... it would be half an inch too wide in both dimensions...

But that’s fine just worried about the 2 layers in the corners.

Two layers of what in the corners? I'm not sure I understand... - Stuart -

Sorry not to reply in quotes, its hurting my brain. The roof is titled with a wooden A frame rests on the outter brick wall but the inner block wall is using some sketchy looking metal hangers, so I asume the loft I plan to build above for storage may be an issue but thats out of the scope of this post :) I have added some pictures of the garage in its current state :? https://postimg.org/gallery/w5ez58hg/ For the leaf part, my inner leaf inside to out this time. I planned to use 2 layers of plaster board on RC with GG< then rockwool, then an outer panel of board as per Rods book. the setup of studs would look like this: ^This picture is not mine just an example! ^^ For the Ceiling I have not got that far, I will see if I can source a SE to calculate. OK Caulk for base plate that sounds good. its not in a bad condition just not a smooth finish so I had worried about sound leakage.

So let's start again: You have an existing garage whose exterior walls are built from a single wythe of common brick. Correct? And on top of those existing walls, are roof trusses that support the roof above, correct? And under your feet you have a 4" concrete slab, correct? All of that already exists, right now? None of it needs to be built? So that's your outer shell, your outer leaf, the first leaf in your two-leaf system. Are we on the same page so far?

Great thats it! I'm with you on fixing base plate I can live with that now. The Fence post part was 4" x 4" by 4" x 4" but I guess i don't need to worry, I may need them for the door hanging on the inner frame though. Thanks for cleaning up many of my assumptions Stuart.

Regarding the block wall part I was referring to where the garage door is. I plan to keep a 1.5m "garage" storage area. I cannot just have my inner wall due to sound leakage out of the garage door. Would a second leaf stud wall cause me issues? I plan to send out air from the room into this section also to avoid cutting into the outside wall.

After checking the floor again it's really not that bad. The roof is becoming the hard part of this plan. Would anyone have any examples of roofs on stud walls. Last build I did the roof supportd rested on concrete blocks. I'm looking to support 2 layers of 15mm board so the frame will be quite heavy. Still looking for an SE for calculations

I have started the frame plan. The plan only includes this so far. The outer of the frame will be single 15mm board The inner 2 layers with green glue and rc The roof i still need a solution for hanging the plaster board. The base and top plates and 2 x 6 The wall frame is 2 x 4 My base plate will be anchored by 2 1/2 bolts in the slab

Hi Your thread looks interesting as you're building into a space very similar sized to mine (2.4x2.4x5.6) - although mine is the ground floor of a town house rather than a garage. I'm a little confused by your plan though, as it still sounds like you have too many layers. You've got the garage wall already, so all you need to do is build a stud frame and mount two layers of plasterboard to one side of it. Your recent post suggests you'll have board on the other side of the stud frame - this is not required. The two leaves are garage wall (leaf 1) and new double plasterboard layer (leaf 2). Regarding the ceiling, if you're building the room inside out, with the plasterboard going above the joists (which maximises height) then Stuart has suggested elsewhere making small modules and then raising them to mount to the joists. For example if you have 2x6" joists 60cm apart (given the short width that 'should' be OK), you could make some 60cm wide modules out of 2x3 or 2x4 that are 60cm wide, fix two layers of plasterboard to them, then raise them in between the joists and bolt them in. Does that help answer your question? Good luck with the design! Gareth

Thank you. Thats a good point so not having outter board will save me a logistical nightmare but how about my insulation i need to keep it in the frame.also would that mean i do not need the outer legs of the wall? The roof is a good idea i will take a look at that. I was going to but the plaster board under covering the frame. Modular sounds more manageable!

Hi Not sure what you mean by outer legs, but I'm guessing you mean offset studs that would have held up the board that we agree you don't need (from looking at your diagram), if so no you don't need them. In terms of keeping the insulation in the frame, I believe that if you buy the semi-rigid fibreglass you can cut it slightly oversized for the gap and friction will keep it in place. I've seen other pictures where people have used some kind of netting to hold it between the studs. Many builds also have fibreglass between the studs and the original wall, and from what I've read on here as long as it's not too compressed then it helps improve the isolation, so it may be that this insulation will help hold the insulation between the studs in place too. I plan to build all of my walls and ceiling inside out to maximise the dimensions of the room, as otherwise I'd be building walls then adding further treatment to the inside of the room, making the space even smaller. Hope this helps Gareth

Sorry yes i did mean outer studs. I would have thought the insulation touching the outside wall would be a bad idea. It could cause condensation and stopping airflow around the outside of my walls. My room will be freestanding. Would having inside out walls not cause unwanted reflections? I guess it may actually help break up reflections but if they ate uniform they may cause more issues in mid to high frequency.

Hi I think that if you have a vapour barrier/membrane in the correct place you don't have to worry about condensation between the layers - as I understand it the membrane has to go next to the warm wall, so that would be on the 'outside' of the plasterboard. Having inside out walls, where the plasterboard is on the outside of the stud wall and the stud wall is filled with insulation gets rid of almost all reflections, and the trick then is to put some reflectivity back into the room to stop it sounding dead. The normal way of construction with plasterboard on the inside of the stud wall is where you get a lot of reflections and you then spend time identifying where to put absorbers to stop the reflections, which tend to be stuck on the walls meaning the room gets narrower. This thread is a great example of building inside out walls then using plastic and wood to bring life back into the room: http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... 0&start=90 Cheers Gareth

a whole load of wood arrived today and I build a test frame. man i have limited space I had a suggestion today to use the whole room and not frame it but, its kind of too late. Its very narrow my internal dimensions are going to be w 2054mm l 3872mm H 2200mm My room modes are not great and 65hz is my cut off. But I have to have a room as no space in the house. Not annoying my Neighbors is my biggest worry so I will have to treat and adapt once the room is done. Im expecting lots of trapping and loss of even more space. https://s5.postimg.org/y1q5iy143/20170420_130705.jpg https://s5.postimg.org/vvr9ap89v/20170420_132631.jpg https://s5.postimg.org/ry3zlalgj/20170420_175242.jpg https://s5.postimg.org/qa9fkdwyr/New_render1.png https://s5.postimg.org/ytsti55b7/New_render2.png The strange looking block work in attached to the wall in the garage, I have no idea if its original or added so I am leaving it as is. The door is the external one. I have to design the internal door still. https://s5.postimg.org/4qeaq721v/New_render3.png https://s5.postimg.org/6jh7ein8j/New_render4.png

a bit more progress today getting all the studs to size I really am considering the inside out idea, but I may have to keep my ceiling on the inside due to space issues above my roof. i have had it confirmed today that the 2.4m high concrete blocks have to stay as they are helping support the single brick wall so I have no choice but to build around them, This will lose me another 110mm from the wall with the door. Also I now have to consider my HVAC as well i plan to have the inlet at the back via the ceiling and outlet at the front to the "mini garage" One tip I have learned today for anyone building studs from 2" thick wood, If you cant get a nail gun, Decking screws are amazing, I have 5mm x 90mm they go in quick and no pilot holes required just straight in! I now have 300 different 4" nails I no longer need, with RSI i quickly found hammering at heights is not for me. all of the studs cut and the 2x6 wall plates are cut. https://s5.postimg.org/jk252fokj/20170421_181854.jpg I built a test rig for the roof to check spacing. https://s5.postimg.org/emokhbmlf/20170421_181247.jpg https://s5.postimg.org/q1l1lxyxv/20170421_181232.jpg

Looks like after a wasted day, I was going to build my 2 long 4m walls but have serious space issues. I wont be able to build with plasterboard on the outside of the wall after all unless I made 2 stud frames per wall, there is no space to build them on the floor and lift. I can just about build the frame but its going to be awkward, Has anyone tried building with 2 individual frames and join them together? Im worried that the strength of the 6X2 will kind of be wasted if im not using the whole 4m length and chopping it in half. The walls are damn heavy as they are without 2 layers of board on them lol. because of the Block column i am already losing loads of space and building around them is a real pain.

there is no space to build them on the floor and lift.

Why? Is the room too narrow to accommodate the height of the wall? Is that the problem? - Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

there is no space to build them on the floor and lift.

Why? Is the room too narrow to accommodate the height of the wall? Is that the problem? - Stuart -

the room is 2.5 wide excluding the lost 110mm from the block work. my walls are 2.3 tall its very tight.

Yesterday I had a discussion with a structural engineer yesterday. He told me my A frame in the roof will easily hold the weight of 2 plaster board layers and insulation. i am now thinking that a steel frame hung from the joists with the board added or hat channel and clips hung from the A frame i would need to drop the height slightly anyway to meet the walls and seal the room. has anyone had experience with light weight steel frame on the ceiling or channel + clips and insulation directly on top.

I have now roughly modeled the room https://s5.postimg.org/poluaegpv/building_render_1.png https://s5.postimg.org/6814nvllv/building_render_2.png https://s5.postimg.org/zbpck49pf/building_render_3.png https://s5.postimg.org/3t993g5cz/building_render_4.png https://s5.postimg.org/7e54mo9wj/building_render_5.png

SOOO I have not got very far with my build but have now had the realization I cannot not have access to my "loft space" I was trying to engineer some kind of loft hatch 4" think with plaster board and insulation like the ceiling but have decided against this. I will now have to make a hallway that I can access the roof space from and have updated my plans. (not much acoustic treatment in the plan yet) https://s5.postimg.org/el52o4e1v/27_internal4.png https://s5.postimg.org/mrx2fp44j/27_internal5.png https://s5.postimg.org/g2qizoisj/27_internal6.png It is not ideal having the odd shaped room but I have to be able to get to my ventilation and store a small amount of stuff now I am using the whole length of the garage Im looking to use 6" inlet and outlets for the ventilation with a 400cm3 per hour fan, my room is approx 21m3 (very small) this weekend I wil get building my frame again I have to modify the parts I have already made but best to get it done before its too late.

I have build all of my frame parts although they are not fixed in place yet. The base plates will be fixed to the concrete floor with 10mm 125mm concrete fixings. My next planning is the Door and HRV / Fresh Air system. https://s5.postimg.org/smlpayjhf/frame_with_door.png I will be using a solid core fire door and need to plan the frame correctly. As you can see in the picture the frame the door will sit in will be quite small I have only constructed the base top and sides so far so I can get this right. I will use extra fixings on this wall as the door will add some movment if not tied in well. Does anyone have a good frame idea? The door will be approx 2000 x 850 x 50mm thick. I will be getting a complete door with no holes so I can decide on the locking mech i will use. I plan to use hardwood and if needed will add extra layers. The frame it will sit in is about 1280 X 2300 x 150mm This build is very slow as I can only build when I am not at work and the money permits so I have time to correct mistakes hopefully with the help of this forum. The "Hall way" is going to have to exist I cannot change that due to electrical, fire and loft access reasons. For the ventilation I am looking at various HRV units with summer bypass to provide air I am not yet considering Aircon. In the UK its only hot for a few months and when I work will be maybe 5-6 hours per week. worst case I will replace the HRV later as I can reuse the ducting. The Air will be supplied from the pitch roof via a vent into 4" ducting and return will exhust through the garage door side. the unit I have looked at so far is only 100SQ M per hour and my room is approx 21 SQ M

sorry for the BUMP* Any tips on the door?

As you can see in the picture . . .

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the frame the door will sit in will be quite small

Door frames cannot be small! They need to be massive. Normally there are at least three studs on each side (two kings and a jack) as well as a header with cripples, plus multiple noggins. That's the minimum. Like this:

I will use extra fixings on this wall as the door will add some movment if not tied in well.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that: How would it even be possible to build a door that was not firmly fixed into the wall?

I will be getting a complete door with no holes so I can decide on the locking mech i will use.

Your door should be solid core, not hollow, and you should drill any holes at all through it. Use only surface mounted handles, and an automatic door closer.

For the ventilation I am looking at various HRV units with summer bypass to provide air I am not yet considering Aircon. In the UK its only hot for a few months

Heat is not the issue. Humidity is. You live in the UK where humidity is pretty much always high outdoors, and you need to keep it at a constant 40% RH inside your studio, for your instruments, mics and gear..... An HRV unit does nothing at all to control humidity. Only a proper air conditioner can do that. Many people use mini-split systems for that in studios. - Stuart -