Building a studio in Norway

Hi all, thanks a lot to John and everyone for the worlds best forum. so much knowlegde in one place, amazing! I have been following this forum for a couple of years with great interest. I am now planning to build a studio. Starting with the control room, nice if you could comment on the layout i have planned, and if anyone has any bright ideas, please let me know. The control room is about 24sq meters, and the live room is about 16 sq meters, is this to small for the live room? Pictures of the rooms today enclosed..

Hi, can anyone answer me a simple thing? i have laid the floor now, no contact with excisting walls, cleared of the concrete with auralex u-boats. When i start building my walls (on top of the floor) i will have them open on the "outside", should i lay isolation/soundboards which go all the way out to the excisting walls, or should there be a gap for an inch in between there?

Hi there and welcome to the forum. It looks like you are missing some key introductory information which will help others to provide you more useful advice. Take a look at the "Before you post read this" sticky and then try to include as much information as you can. With regards to your second question, while I'm not sure about building regulations in Norway - here in NA one would expect to find insulation in that cavity. In my case I filled it with regular fiber glass insulation. Hope that helps, but do take your time and provide as much info as you can. You don't want to make a costly mistake that you can't undo! All the best, Andy

Hi there Joakim, and I'll add my welcome to Andy's!

Hi, can anyone answer me a simple thing? i have laid the floor now, no contact with excisting walls, cleared of the concrete with auralex u-boats.

You probably don't want to hear this, but that was probably a mistake. You really, really read this information: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173 If that were my room, I would take up that floor, and return the U-boats for a refund.

The control room is about 24sq meters, and the live room is about 16 sq meters, is this to small for the live room?

If that's the only space you have for your live room, then that's fine! Bigger is always better, and in general the live room should be bigger than the control room, but if you have not other options then it is fine like that. Did you check your room ratios, to make sure you have good dimensions?

When i start building my walls (on top of the floor) i will have them open on the "outside", should i lay isolation/soundboards which go all the way out to the excisting walls, or should there be a gap for an inch in between there?

For good isolation, you need at least 4" (10cm) gap across the wall cavity, between the surfaces of the inner-leaf and outer-leaf. Like Andy said, that cavity should also have insulation in it, for several reasons. If you are using mineral wool insulation, then the density should be about 50 kg/m3. If you are using fiberglass insulation, the density should be about 30 kg/m3. - Stuart -

Thank you both! That building is an old factory building, and i am on the second floor. There is about 30cm of concrete i think. I have no neighbours, its only used for storage, and very little people are around there, so i am pretty lucky that way. I also had to build a new floor because it was about -10cm level difference from one to the other side. But thanks for the advice's so far. The question about the gap was because i think i saw on another thread that the gap between the inner and outer leaf did some good. But the easiest thing is to put some insultaion/soundboards all the way out against the outer leaf, so thats just fine..:-)

The question about the gap was because i think i saw on another thread that the gap between the inner and outer leaf did some good.

Absolutely yes! The size of the gap is very important. The bigger the gap, the better your isolation will be. And it is also very important to put insulation in that gap: with no insulation, the isolation will not be good.

But the easiest thing is to put some insultaion/soundboards all the way out against the outer leaf, so thats just fine.

That won't work, actually. With just one leaf, you have no gap and very, very poor isolation.

I also had to build a new floor because it was about -10cm level difference from one to the other side.

OK, but that should be leveled with leveling cement, not by building a resonant drum on top of it. Did you read the post I linked you to, about the dangers of floors that are not floated correctly? - Stuart -

yes, i read it. And i understand the problems, but i would have lost my only carpenter (my dad) if i took it all up again..:) Still dont understand the gap, in one sentence your saying its important to put insulation out in the gap, in the next your saying no, cause then you have just one leaf..? Today it is like this: outer wall with 10cm insulation - 1 inch gap - inner wall - 2 layers of plasticboard (will be) so when i put insulation on the inner wall, there are no outer boundries to the gap, so if i buy bigger insulation than the wall, its pretty easy filling out the gap between the inner and outer wall, but is that a no or a go?;)

Still dont understand the gap, in one sentence your saying its important to put insulation out in the gap, in the next your saying no, cause then you have just one leaf..?

Maybe I didn't explain that too well: I was saying that if you just put the drywall up against the outer leaf, then insulation, in that case you only have one leaf. Also, if you leave a gap between the outer-leaf and the drywall, but jam in too much insulation too tight, then you also have only one leaf, basically. What you should have, is outer leaf - air gap gently filled with insulation - inner leaf. The framing for the inner-leaf must not touche the outer leaf at all.

outer wall with 10cm insulation - 1 inch gap - inner wall - 2 layers of plasticboard (will be)

OK; so there is a physical gap of 1 inch between the point where the 10cm insulation ends, and the point where the framing for the inner-leaf starts? If so, that's great. For the purposes of building, that's a 1-inch gap between frames, but for the purposes of all acoustic calculations, that's an 8" air-gap: You have 10 cm (3-1/2") air gap filled with insulation for your outer leaf, then 1" of empty air, then another 3-1/2" of air gap between the studs on the inner-leaf, then comes the inner-leaf drywall. So that's 3.5 + 1 + 3.5 = 8" of air gap, which is very good.

so when i put insulation on the inner wall, there are no outer boundries to the gap, so if i buy bigger insulation than the wall, its pretty easy filling out the gap between the inner and outer wall, but is that a no or a go?;)

That's a go! Fill the entire air-gap with insulation, if you can afford to do that. It is still an air-gap, technically, since insulation is mostly air inside... Just make sure that you don't push the insulation in too hard: If you compress it in too tightly, then it can create "flanking paths" between the two leaves. Just lay it in so that it just fills the cavity, and no more. Don't compress it. - Stuart -

Thanks stuart! Then I think i got it..:) i will post pictures as i progress!

A few late nights and making progress..:-)

A little progress putting up the walls! Starting to make my connections to the live room:

Laid 2 layers of plasticboard on walls, finished the roof, starting to build soffits for my event 2020..:-)

i see the end of the control room now...little bit more paint, and finishing the corners today..:)

Looking pretty good! - Stuart -

Moving slow now, but have been doing a lot of little annoying things that takes time. Buildt a set of speaker stands, and working on the mixer console now..:-)

Oh yeah! Now it's really starting to look like a studio. Nice work! Have you done any acoustic testing yet, with REW? - Stuart -

No, i have not..thinking about doing it this weekend, but i have not got the spotlights for my roof hangers, so its a little difficult. Also, should i make the first reflection points dampers on the wall first? are they always needed? think there is a little too much reverb in the room right now when i clap my hands..thanks.:)

It's always a good idea to do a "before" test, then a series of "after" tests, to see how the room responded originally, and how it responds after each new addition of acoustic treatment. That way, you can see what is working, what is not working, how well it is working, and how much you still need to do to get it where you want it. So I'd suggest testing it now, just the way it is (and maybe taking out some of the treatment, if you can do that easily, to test it in a more "empty" state), then test it again after you put each device in place. One major point with this approach: measure the exact location of the mic in the room the first time you do the test, then put it back in the precise same position every time you test, accurate to within a 1/4" or so. It is very important that you always test with the mic exactly in that spot. Even moving it a small amount will make your comparisons invalid. The readings will still be valid, but for a different spot in the room. If you want to compare graphs from different treatment additions, then the mic has to be in the same location every time. - Stuart -

thanks mate!

Hi stuart, or anyone. I tried a rew test, but cant say i understood too much of the program. I have not taken any steps to the acoustics besides a cloud over the mixing board (for spotlights) and the room is furnitured as it is ment to be..:) And i did the test on the KRK in front of the desk, not on the soffit mounted speakers. http://www.filedropper.com/apr20104922krk thanks!

Joakim, please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing something very important... :)

I tried a rew test, but cant say i understood too much of the program.

Did you calibrate REW using a hand-held sound level meter? The data you posted shows that the tests were done at a level of about 70 dB, but they really should be done at around 85 dB, which is the "standard" reference level for calibration. So please calibrate properly, and re-do the test. But based on data, the decay time for the room is far too long and uneven. It is over 500 ms for low frequencies, and under 300 ms for the high end. There is also a large "hole" at around 81 Hz, and a smaller hole at 104 Hz., which could be due to many things, but I suspect floor resonance, or room modes. What are the dimensions of the room? There's also a lot of early reflections within the first few milliseconds, which is going to cause problems, and those are most likely due to having the speakers so low and so close to the desk. That's probably also the reason for the dip in the low mids. Also, you should do the test using the soffit-mounted mains, not the little speakers on the desk, and you should do one test for each speaker individually (Left and Right), as well as one test with both speakers on. - Stuart -

Stuart, not sure what you are reffering to about the forum guidelines. I included a location in my profile, if that was what you were thinking about. If not, please let me know..:-) Think i mentioned the room in my first posts, its about 5 meters long, and 4 meters wide. The roof is rising left to right from about 2.20m until 2.70m. I included 2 resent pictures of the front and back of room. When i did the tests, the wool curtains in front of the windows were closed.

here is a new test, calibrated with c weighted slow response SPL. used the soffit mounted event 2020 for the test, they are both turned down full on the bas response (-3 or -6?). http://www.filedropper.com/krksplmatch_1

I included a location in my profile, if that was what you were thinking about.

Yup, that was it! :)

here is a new test,

I clicked on the link, but there's nothing there: just the Filedropper web site itself, asking if I want to join up... - Stuart -