Design Studio in Basement

Great! The cleats are in. In regards to the existing ceiling, I read in Rod's book that I can put pink Fibreglass instead of Roxul (see #2 below). But after doing part of that ceiling and comparing it with the Safe n' Sound in the walls, I'm shaving second doubts about that. The Fibreglass doesn't seem near as effective. I know Rod is top, but can someone still confirm this is ok? Also, should I put Safe n' Sound or pink Fibreglass in the new ceiling? (see layer #4 below) Thanks =-=-=- Here is what I'm planning: 1-Add two layers of ⅝" drywall between joists (partly done) 2-Put one layer of pink fibreglass (partly done) 3- Space 4-Build a new stud structure resting on the new walls on the side with Roxul or fibreglass? 5-MDF 6-Gyproc ⅝" test the noise level, then if needed, add: 7-Green Glue 8-Gyproc ⅝"

Can someone tell me if this is ok? The contractor in my absence today attached the new interior wall stud structure to the joists . It seems to me that it shouldn't touch the existing joists and the new ceiling only should rest on the new wall, no?

You are correct sir - the new framing should not be attached to the existing joists for the approach you had described. This would significantly affect your isolation. I would ask him to fix it. Good luck and be glad that you caught it!

Agree with Andy... No mechanical contact at all between inner and outer. - Stuart -

Ok thanks! They're just gonna remove the pads so then the wall won't connect to the joists. In his book on page 104, Rod says he prefers a single "super door" than two standard solid-core doors. Do you know why? What's better? And why not just add a layer of MDF or Plywood for the two solid doors? (I think I'll avoid the lead sheet though. I hear this is not too good for health.)

(I think I'll avoid the lead sheet though. I hear this is not too good for health.)

As long as you don't eat your door, you should be fine. :) Lead is only a problem if it gets into your stomach or lungs somehow, so provided that you don't chew on the lead sheeting while you are installing it, and take reasonable precautions which you should be taking anyway, with or without lead, then I wouldn't be too worried. By "reasonable precautions" I mean: wearing gloves and eye protection all the time while building, washing your hands when you leave the work area, and using a simple respirator (mask) while doing anything that generates dust. You should ALWAYS do that, even of there is no lead around! Here's some advice from people who know: http://www.britishlead.co.uk/health-and-safety.htm :) - Stuart -

Ok. Would you know why Rod prefers a single Super door with lead than two solid wood door? Is it because it gives better isolation? And why not put lead/plywood on both doors? Would that make the doors too heavy for the frame?

Ok. So for my ceiling at this point, I have these layers below from top to bottom. We can't hear tv or voices anymore, but I can still hear steps, impacts. So what is best way to continue from here? One or two layers of Gypse with green glue? Any better idea for impacts? -Gypse ⅝" -Gypse ⅝" -Roxul -Fibreglass -Space -New 2" x 4" ceiling with Roxul -MDF Thanks

I have these layers below from top to bottom.

Are you sure those are ordered from bottom to top? That implies that you are walking on drywall up above! :shock:

Any better idea for impacts?

For impact noise, it is better to damp it as much as possible at the source, such as with a carpet on the floor, or thick plywood subfloor. You might also want to decouple the ceiling below with resilient channel, or with RSIC clips and hat channel. - Stuart -

Hi Stuart, Well, just above the two layers of gypse, I have a laminated wood floor and the usual plywood floor. We also added another layer of gypse below the MDF by now. But what do you mean by adding Resilient or Hat channels? I thought this was not necessary or recommended since I already have some space between the lower and upper ceiling. And how could I reduce impact noise at the source? I read about rubber being good and I know we don't want carpet in our living room, but I wouldn't mind some temporary rugs for when I record So this is what I have so far. -Laminated wood floor -Plywood -Gypse ⅝" (cut layers places between joist) -Gypse ⅝" (cut layers places between joist) -Roxul -Fibreglass Space -New 2" x 4" ceiling with Roxul -MDF -Gypse ⅝" -(Could add another layer of Gypse ⅝" with Green Glue eventually) Thanks

I thought this was not necessary or recommended since I already have some space between the lower and upper ceiling.

So you are saying that you have two independent sets of joists? That the floor above is attached to one set of joists, and the ceiling below is attached to an entirely different set of joists? Sorry: I don't recall all of the details of your build, so I'm not sure if that us what you are planning or not. If so (two sets of joists) then you are correct: no resilient channel required. You would only need that if they floor above and the ceiling below are attached to the same set of joists.

So this is what I have so far. -Laminated wood floor -Plywood -Gypse ⅝" (cut layers places between joist) -Gypse ⅝" (cut layers places between joist)

Ahhh! Now THAT makes sense! When you include all the layers, then it becomes a lot clearer.

-Roxul -Fibreglass

Question about that: Why both? There's nothing wrong with doing that, but I'm just curious about why you have both mineral wool and also fiberglass insulation in the gap.

Space -New 2" x 4" ceiling with Roxul -MDF -Gypse ⅝" -(Could add another layer of Gypse ⅝" with Green Glue eventually)

OK, seeing that " 2 x 4 " in there, definitely makes it look like you have two sets of joists, so you are fine. Impact noise shouldn't be too much of an issue like that, unless you have someone tap-dancing upstairs! :) If there are no flanking paths between the leaves, then impact noise should not be much of a problem, and as you mentioned, if it IS a problem, you can always spread around a few throw-rugs during critical recording sessions. - Stuart -

Question about that: Why both?

My joists are pretty large (2" X 8" I think), so I had a lot of space left. The fibreglass, being pretty soft, could fill the available space. Maybe a waste, I don't know, but I was pretty confident it wouldn't hinder at the least. Yeah, I have two sets of joists, but I think I'll work on the source of impact eventually. Is the attached solution something that could work in regards to the floor?

Oups! I also have another question: In regards to my two studio doors, what's better: Add a sheet of lead between the door and a plywood sheet (or MDF)? or Add green Glue between the door and a plywood sheet (or MDF)? Or both? How should I approach this? Thnaks

what's better: Add a sheet of lead between the door and a plywood sheet (or MDF)? or Add green Glue between the door and a plywood sheet (or MDF)?

depends on what you are trying to accomplish! The lead will give you a lot more mass in a thin layer but not much damping. The GG will give you a lot of damping (CLD), but very little extra mass. And I have no idea what GG would do with lead: I don't see it working as it is supposed to, since lead is not the material that GG is designed for. - Stuart -

First, I'm trying to eliminate the furnace sound that I can slightly hear in the studio when I'm close to the door. Then, I can also hear people talk or even noise from the ceiling on the other side sometimes through the door. I have two solid wood door, but I know I haven't finish the door sealant yet. So I presume this is the most important thing, but then I will also need to improve the doors. I'm following Rod's plan, but the sealants he proposes are way over my budget (1000$). Here is a link to some pictures. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zphx2c75gg7t0ue/AyMSE8pvUF Would I need more mass or more damping? Thanks for your help

So would I need more mass or damping? :D

Yes, that's right!!! :) :shot: :!: :wink: - Stuart -

Lol… I'm not sure I get it. How can I know which one I need?

Yeah, sorry about that! :) I was trying to be funny... (Maybe I shouldn't switch careers to become a comedian? :) ) What I was trying to say is that you probably need both mass and damping. I'm not sure what your door "sandwich" is looking like right now, but I'd guess that you at least have your basic solid-core door plus a couple of layers of MDF: If so, then use GG between the layers of MDF, and add your layer of lead between the solid-core and the first layer of MDF, without GG. That gives you most mass close to the core (and therefore close to the hinge fulcrum, reducing the moment arm that is trying to tear the door off the hinges), and some damping on the MDF, which is where the sound first hits the door surface. You still need to screw the two layers of MDF together, with the GG in between, so the damping isn't perfect, but it helps. Every little thing you can do helps a bit, and adding up all those "little things" can get you a "big thing". - Stuart -

Oh wow! I didn't realize I could put several layers of MDF. I only have my two solid doors at this point. By priority, I think I have to work on the hardware around the door first to make it air tight And then I'll be able add some layers of MDF. (Yes it was funny. That's how I took it. Thanks for your help. It's very much appreciated.)

Do you have the book "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", by Rod Gervais? If not, then order it. Rod shows several methods for making doors, and also how to seal them. - Stuart -

Yes I have it. I'm trying to find the stuff but it's not too easy. The Zero International material would cost me 1000$Can. That's too much for me. So I'm looking into something cheaper.

Ok. So I found some acoustic door contour (not sure of the English name) similar to Zero International for around 350$Can. Much cheaper. Out of curiosity… how does ⅛" vinyl sheet block for walls compare to Green Glue? Any preferences?

Out of curiosity… how does ⅛" vinyl sheet block for walls compare to Green Glue? Any preferences?

It sounds like you are talking about "MLV" (Mass Loaded Vinyl)? If so, those are two very different things that accomplish different purposes: For a wall; I would go with the Green Glue, as it really does improve the low frequency damping considerably. But if you are talking about building up the layers of a massive door, then probably the MLV would be the better choice. MLV is just mass, but it is thin mass, and is also limp mass, which is good for doors. However, for walls, it is damned expensive mass! It doesn't do anything that another layer of drywall wouldn't do the same for half the price. And it doesn't do what Green Glue does either. So for walls, I would either add an extra layer of drywall, or add Green Glue. - Stuart -

This is what I meant. Is this MLV? http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_ ... etblok.asp For my two doors, I'm planning to put Green Glue on one side for both of them and maybe eventually a sheet of lead on the other side if needed. Between lead and MLV for the door, any preference?