Hi Everyone
My name is Ghalik and im a musician/recording engineer/producer currently working in a one room facility (the kitchen in an outbuilding......cause its the biggest room). I have an MCI JH636 hardwired to to a Protools HD2 rig. I been a musician for about 25 years and recording and producing for about 13 years. Ninety percent of the music has been african and the rest pop and hip hop. Ive done okay but need to set up a multi-tracking facility as i have had lots of requests from bands and im unable to take on the work because of the lack of space.
I started building a three roomed studio which is attached to the outbuilding im working in now, with walls built of bricks (ROK's) two skins thick and the floors are concrete with the roof fibre cement. I am going for the room with in a room concept for Rooms 1 and 2.. There are no neighbours buildings attached or close by except for the west side of the studio which is attached to the outbuilding, so the building is basically freestanding. The main building is done and i have started with the inner rooms. My brother and I are doing all the work and we have never done any thing like this before..we have however done extensive reading and as of recent starting the net and hence my presence here.
Room 1 currently measures 6m X 4m X 3.1m.....inner room to be built with a single skin brick wall
Room 2 currently measures 5m X 3.25m X 2.5m....inner room being built with asbestos and gypsum
Room 3 currently measures 5m X 2.7m X2.5m and will remain as is.
My immediate dilemna is thus :
1. Choosing between room 1 and 2 - I am unsure which room to use for the control room.
2. Room 2 - I have started building the inner room using alum metal tracks and studs fixed to the walls with brackets floated with neoprene. The studs are 600mm apart. The tracks and the studs are floated on 10mm neoprene. The concrete floor in this room has been floated, the ceiling has been insulated and will remain as is. the inner rooms walls are going to extend 10 mm from the ceiling, with 10mm neoprene filling the gap. Ive gone out on a limb - the 600mm spaces between the studs i filled with big six asbestos sheeting which i floated again with 10mm neoprene and all the gaps i have filled with expanding foam and accoustic sealant. I am about to cover the walls with 12 mm gypsum board. (the gypsum sis about 10 - 15mm away from the asbestos sheeting)
so the structure of the walls is as follows (outer to inner) :
2 skin brick and mortar wall....
50mm air gap......
asbestos sheeting.....
12mm gypsum board
Now, should i leave the air gap between the gypsum board and the asbestos? its been suggested that i fill this with dry sand but i am concerned that the weight of the sand will bulge the boards.
3. Will it be advisable to finish the walls with a skin of cretestone plaster?
Am i heading for trouble? I know that i have a wat to still....Hvac, room treatment etc....im in no rush as all of this coming out my pocket and this cost ten times more here than the rest of the world so im using whatever help and material i think i can use. take it that there is no budget.
I have attached a pic of the inner wall construction
thanking you in anticipation
New Studio Building, Cape Town....
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 18332.
Hi Ghalik, and welcome!
If you need a live room and a control room, then I would go with room 2 (the smaller room) as the control room, and leave the larger one for the live room.1. Choosing between room 1 and 2 - I am unsure which room to use for the control room.
Sorry, but that wont work. The inner-leaf of a "room-in-a-room" design must be totally decoupled (separated mechanically) from the outer. so if you attache the inner-leaf studs to the outer-leaf walls, then you are not doing that, and will not have any isolation.2. Room 2 - I have started building the inner room using alum metal tracks and studs fixed to the walls with brackets floated with neoprene.
The neoprene is irrelevant and not doing what you think it is doing, since you have to nail, bolt or screw through it. That's not the way to float a wall, and what you are doing will not work. It will just be a normal wall, no different from any ordinary house wall.The tracks and the studs are floated on 10mm neoprene.
How? Please provide details of you how you did that. Also, if you already floated the inner-leaf floor, then why do you also want to float the inner-leaf walls? There is no purpose to that, and it will not accomplish anything.The concrete floor in this room has been floated,
The inner leaf walls CANNOT touch the outer-leaf at all, in any way, not even a single nail, and also not using a neoprene edge. That won't work either, and is probably structurally unsafe anyway.the inner rooms walls are going to extend 10 mm from the ceiling, with 10mm neoprene filling the gap.
:shock: :?: :?: :?: Why? For what purpose??? The stud bays are supped to have only AIR in them, and insulation! Nothing else. Also, asbestos is dangerous to your health, and is banned as a construction material in many countries. I would take that out, and only use materials that won't kill you.the 600mm spaces between the studs i filled with big six asbestos sheeting
Once again, that's not the way to float a wall.which i floated again with 10mm neoprene
Expanding polyurethane foam is no use acoustically: it is light-weight (low mass), hard, brittle (not flexible), and closed-cell. What you need for acoustics is high mass, soft, flexible, and open-cell.all the gaps i have filled with expanding foam
12mm is too thin: the mass is too low, it is too flexible, and the resonant characteristics are undesirable. Use only 16mm.I am about to cover the walls with 12 mm gypsum board.
The absolute MINIMUM air gap in an MSM wall is 100mm (10cm, 4 inches). Any less than that, and the MSM resonant frequency is way too high, causing poor isolation in low frequencies.(the gypsum sis about 10 - 15mm away from the asbestos sheeting)
:shock: :!: :!: :roll: That is a THREE-LEAF wall, with one of the leaves being thin and light-weight over a thin air gap, and no damping anywhere!!!! That is going to be pretty lousy for low frequency isolation. Isolation walls should ALWAYS be ONLY two-leaf, never one-leaf, never three-leaf (or more). The lack of damping alone is costing you at lest 10 dB of isolation.2 skin brick and mortar wall.... 50mm air gap...... asbestos sheeting..... [15mm air gap) 12mm gypsum board
What you should do to correct this, is to take it all down again, seal the brick wall with a good masonry sealant, build your stud frame about 5 cm away from the brick, NOT touching the brick at all, then fill the air gap entirely with mineral wool insulation (50 kg/m3) or fiberglass insulation (30 kg/m3), then put two layers of ordinary fire-rated 16mm drywall on the studs. That's all you need for really good isolation.Now, should i leave the air gap between the gypsum board and the asbestos? its been suggested that i fill this with dry sand but i am concerned that the weight of the sand will bulge the boards.
Yes! There are some serious red flags with what you have done: a lot of it serves no useful purpose (so it is wasted money), some of it is dangerous, and some of it is actually counter-productive for good isolation. I would suggest that you start again by first designing the room correctly, in full detail, with complete layout, positions of speakers, desk, chair, equipment, treatment, etc., and post that here so we can take a look at it and see if there are ways to improve it. Only when you have the design finalized, should you start building. - Stuart -Am i heading for trouble?
Hi Stuart Thanks for the reply. I am trying to draw the rooms with sketchup .....not getting it right. The building started months ago, with the inner work starting about three weeks ago. Asbestos sheeting is common here. Most of the houses around here have asbestos sheeting as roofing. Ive checked the health issues and ive read that continous exposure for 30 years would result in health problems so thats why i went for the asbestos (it was the roofing material on the old garage - which was converted into a three room facility). im 53 so i hopefully would be dead by then... I realised the decoupling situation when i first started visiting the site, i now also understand the mass-air-mass system (i hope i got it right). My brother will be here over the weekend (works in the week) and i will discuss the problems with him. We are doing this with basically no budget, him buying the material mainly. We cannot obtain 15mm gypsum board easily (and its pretty expensive)...here its referred to as firewall. I can lay my hands on fiber cement boards at no cost.....would that be better? according to my friend who has them, they dont bend at all. What about 22mm super wood boards? I have quite a bit of those. Can we fill the air between the gyp board and asbestos? there would still be the air gap between the asbestos and the brick wall? what can we save? I will have to ponder a bit and get backHi Ghalik, and welcome!If you need a live room and a control room, then I would go with room 2 (the smaller room) as the control room, and leave the larger one for the live room.1. Choosing between room 1 and 2 - I am unsure which room to use for the control room.Sorry, but that wont work. The inner-leaf of a "room-in-a-room" design must be totally decoupled (separated mechanically) from the outer. so if you attache the inner-leaf studs to the outer-leaf walls, then you are not doing that, and will not have any isolation.2. Room 2 - I have started building the inner room using alum metal tracks and studs fixed to the walls with brackets floated with neoprene.The neoprene is irrelevant and not doing what you think it is doing, since you have to nail, bolt or screw through it. That's not the way to float a wall, and what you are doing will not work. It will just be a normal wall, no different from any ordinary house wall.The tracks and the studs are floated on 10mm neoprene.How? Please provide details of you how you did that. Also, if you already floated the inner-leaf floor, then why do you also want to float the inner-leaf walls? There is no purpose to that, and it will not accomplish anything.The concrete floor in this room has been floated,The inner leaf walls CANNOT touch the outer-leaf at all, in any way, not even a single nail, and also not using a neoprene edge. That won't work either, and is probably structurally unsafe anyway.the inner rooms walls are going to extend 10 mm from the ceiling, with 10mm neoprene filling the gap.:shock: :?: :?: :?: Why? For what purpose??? The stud bays are supped to have only AIR in them, and insulation! Nothing else. Also, asbestos is dangerous to your health, and is banned as a construction material in many countries. I would take that out, and only use materials that won't kill you.the 600mm spaces between the studs i filled with big six asbestos sheetingOnce again, that's not the way to float a wall.which i floated again with 10mm neopreneExpanding polyurethane foam is no use acoustically: it is light-weight (low mass), hard, brittle (not flexible), and closed-cell. What you need for acoustics is high mass, soft, flexible, and open-cell.all the gaps i have filled with expanding foam12mm is too thin: the mass is too low, it is too flexible, and the resonant characteristics are undesirable. Use only 16mm.I am about to cover the walls with 12 mm gypsum board.The absolute MINIMUM air gap in an MSM wall is 100mm (10cm, 4 inches). Any less than that, and the MSM resonant frequency is way too high, causing poor isolation in low frequencies.(the gypsum sis about 10 - 15mm away from the asbestos sheeting):shock: :!: :!: :roll: That is a THREE-LEAF wall, with one of the leaves being thin and light-weight over a thin air gap, and no damping anywhere!!!! That is going to be pretty lousy for low frequency isolation. Isolation walls should ALWAYS be ONLY two-leaf, never one-leaf, never three-leaf (or more). The lack of damping alone is costing you at lest 10 dB of isolation.2 skin brick and mortar wall.... 50mm air gap...... asbestos sheeting..... [15mm air gap) 12mm gypsum boardWhat you should do to correct this, is to take it all down again, seal the brick wall with a good masonry sealant, build your stud frame about 5 cm away from the brick, NOT touching the brick at all, then fill the air gap entirely with mineral wool insulation (50 kg/m3) or fiberglass insulation (30 kg/m3), then put two layers of ordinary fire-rated 16mm drywall on the studs. That's all you need for really good isolation.Now, should i leave the air gap between the gypsum board and the asbestos? its been suggested that i fill this with dry sand but i am concerned that the weight of the sand will bulge the boards.Yes! There are some serious red flags with what you have done: a lot of it serves no useful purpose (so it is wasted money), some of it is dangerous, and some of it is actually counter-productive for good isolation. I would suggest that you start again by first designing the room correctly, in full detail, with complete layout, positions of speakers, desk, chair, equipment, treatment, etc., and post that here so we can take a look at it and see if there are ways to improve it. Only when you have the design finalized, should you start building. - Stuart -Am i heading for trouble?
the original building was a double garage attached to a two bedroom cottage. the double garage was extended and made into a three roomed facility with a rest room/toilet? the floor in the room2 is completely new.....floated with 2 layers of 12mm gypsum on sheet of plastic.then plastic then 100mm concrete then 40mm cement screed. placed 15mm neoprene as skirting before pouring concrete mix.
im going to draw everything on paper and post as a jpeg.
struggling....doing it again...from builders plan
You say it is "floated", but I don't see anything resilient in there that would make it float. Is there something missing from the description? Floating a floor requires some form of spring, which must have the correct resilience for the load and deflection.the floor in the room2 is completely new.....floated with 2 layers of 12mm gypsum on sheet of plastic.then plastic then 100mm concrete then 40mm cement screed
It takes a while to learn SketchUp, but the result is worth the effort. Take a look at the tutorial videos on YouTube.... It's not easy at first, but once you get the idea of some of their unusual concepts, it all makes sense, and it turns out to be a very powerful, very useful tool.Thanks for the reply. I am trying to draw the rooms with sketchup .....not getting it right.
Paper is two-dimensional, but sound moves in all three dimensions.... That's why we always suggest SketchUp, since it is one of the easiest 3D modelers to learn and use... once you get past the initial learning curve! :)im going to draw everything on paper and post as a jpeg.
Fibercement is excellent! Use only 10mm (or thicker) board. That's great for acoustics. You just have to be a lot more careful when working with it, as it is more fragile (brittle) than drywall. But if you can get it for free, then sure! Go for it!I can lay my hands on fiber cement boards at no cost.....would that be better?
That would probably be fine too, although I'm not sure what "superwood" is: Is that some type of engineered wood? Like MDF? or OSB? Do you have a link to the manufacturer's web site?What about 22mm super wood boards?
Yes. You have to fill it with insulation. Either fiberglass or mineral wool insulation. At least 10 cm thick. More is better. - Stuart -Can we fill the air between the gyp board and asbestos?
attached are 2 photos of the builders plans.
one is plan top view...the other is section-AA with a view from the west.
all floors are concrete - room1 has old floor, rooms 2 and 3 have new floors and floated
east wall of room 1 is 4.112m long (see pic Plan Top View)
east wall of rooms 2 and 3 is 5,005m long (see pic Plan Top View)
north lintel in room 2 is a window 1,5m L X 0.61m H (see pic Plan Top View)
west lintel room 2 will have a studio window (see pic Plan Top View)
entrance to the studio is in room 3 (see pic Plan Top View)
north lintel in room 3 has window 1.5m L X 1.2m H (see pic Plan Top View)
the entrance to room 2 has a door adjacent to the door of room 1 (see pic Plan Top View)
south wall of rooms 2 and 3 is about 2,740m high (see pic sectionAA)
south wall of room 1 is about 3.3m high (see pic sectionAA)
the roof of room 1 is fibre cement. the roof of rooms 2 and 3 is asbestos. Rooms 2 and 3 share a common roof. roof of room 1 is seperate. there are no ceilings in room 1.
all doors are currently normal hollow core doors.
all window openings have double frames...steel outer and aluminium inner
[/quote] its MDF...we call it supawoodThat would probably be fine too, although I'm not sure what "superwood" is: Is that some type of engineered wood? Like MDF? or OSB? Do you have a link to the manufacturer's web site? - Stuart -What about 22mm super wood boards?
busy with sketches of room setup...will post soon
the floor is seperated from the walls with neoprene......otherwise thats it. my bad then, its my own version LOLYou say it is "floated", but I don't see anything resilient in there that would make it float. Is there something missing from the description? Floating a floor requires some form of spring, which must have the correct resilience for the load and deflection.
You might find this interesting, on floating floors the correct way:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173
- Stuart -
Thanks stuart......
.....so id dont need to worry about floating the inner walls in rooms since the concrete slabs are good enough?
the large room has the original concrete floor which we cut away to make room for the new wall connecting the two smaller rooms. the floor of the large room is not touching the wall common to the two smaller rooms but is touching the other walls. can we cut the floor away from the other three walls in order to gain isolation?
:shock: :!: You can't just cut away parts of the floor!!!! There has to be a footing (foundation) underneath the edge of each slab. If you cut a floor, you need to cut out a large piece, excavate, put in rebar, and pour a proper footing. This is especially important if you are going to put walls on that floor. It is very important that you do not mess around with structural issues like this, by yourself. Not only is it probably illegal to do that, but it is also dangerous. I would strongly suggest that now is the time for you to hire a structural engineer, to take a look at what you have right now, what you want to do, and tell you how to dig the footers, and how to do the rebar, and also how to deal with any other structural issues that he sees. You SHOULD NOT continue without a structural engineer. What you are doing is dangerous.the original concrete floor which we cut away to make room for the new wall
ONLY if you do it correctly! See above. You cannot cut a floor unless you also pour suitable footers. The structural engineer is the guy who will tell you how to do that. I don't think anyone here will be able to help you or reply to your thread until you have a qualified structural engineer checking what you have done, and what you plan to do. - Stuart -can we cut the floor away from the other three walls in order to gain isolation?
i wish i could do that......hire a structural engineer........
i been reading more now about this stuff and i seem to know dip....LOL
we have a very small monthly budget so its impossible to do exactly as prescibed so we will have to make like McGyver............building with wood, insulation and 15mm drywall is more expensive than brick....i read here that it was a similar situation in the far east?
Bricks - if we build the inner room of room 1 with bricks (from design off course....busy with it)we have to excavate to pour the foundation for new wall.....single skin ROK....so the inner room will have a foundation seperate from the existing foundation of existing walls. the floor of room 1 will now be seperated from the walls of the new inner room.
will this be okay? the floor of room 1 will have no walls to support.....
we will off course have to look at the wall treatment......can the design minimise cost of the inner room?
just to let u know that its winter and not a good time........will get back to the building soon.
going to fill the gap between the asbestos sheeting and the rhinoboard with sand
just to let u know that its winter and not a good time........will get back to the building soon.
going to fill the gap between the asbestos sheeting and the rhinoboard with sand
Hi
I finally managed to get sketchup working. the ceiling in the smaller room is done and so are the walls. its the larger room that i need help with.
the framing is wood 50mm x 115mm, the rafters are 50mm x 150mm.
the main aim of the room is for mixing. secondary aim is to record drums in the back half of the room-hence the ceiling height thats different in that back half. what design would be best (re slope etc)
been working on the 3D sketch and attached is the latest.
im starting over and have thrown all my ideas out.........
this is the plan now......this pertains to the control room which is 6m x 4m x 3.1m (outer room)
1. build the inner room with timber framing and then clad with 2 skins of 10mm fiber cement board with green glue between skin. Mineral wool or similar to be inserted between studs. The base plates of the framing will be laid on top of 20mm insertion rubber. The walls will rest on the concrete slab.
concerns - 1. can the framing for the studs and base plates be 50mm x 75mm?
2. can the rafters for the ceiling be 50mm x 150mm?
3. how does the rafters get attached to the walls?
4. how does the mineral wool/batting get inserted between the studs without
falling down?
2. The ceilings will be two layers of 12.5mm gyproc rhino board fixed to wood battens 400mm apart that will be attached to the rafters.
concerns - 1. the slope of the ceiling 12 degrees with lowest point 2.1 m high. how far should it extend the length of the room before it reaches the arear to be used for drum recordings?
3. the floor will be 2 skins of 10mm fiber cement boards laid on 50 x 75 wood purlins laid on strips of 10mm insertion rubber 105mm wide. the floor to be finished in wood laminate.
concerns - would it be better to cover the floor with rockwool or simlar and then lay the floor on top of that ? (instead of using the 10mm x 150mm strips of rubber
4. mix area to be designed as reflection free zone and to include soffit style mounting.
concerns - im still clueless so im reading through the posts here to get a better idea - right now im not sure whether i should build the room as a rectangle and then add the reflection free zone and soffit construction afterwards
5. rear area of the room to be used for drum recordings and use drum riser on castors that will double as seating area when not recording drums.
concerns - the ceiling height and design for this area as well as the walls and treatment thereof
The power and audio cabling - all power boxes/fitiing will be surface mounted.
The air condtion and fresh air requirements i have not tackled yet ......i know that the design must include this so im hoping that you guys will point me in the right direction. I am reading through the posts here.....its been hours and hours of reading and cross referencing but i still feel cluleess here
That's good.1. build the inner room with timber framing and then clad with 2 skins of 10mm fiber cement board with green glue between skin. Mineral wool or similar to be inserted between studs.
It can't be both! Either the framing rests on rubber, or it rests on the floor. And if you put it on rubber, then you need to do the calculations to ensure that it is floating correctly. Floating a wall is exactly the same as floating a floor (but you do not need to float your floor, of course, since you already have a concrete floor). This thread might help you get a better idea of what is involved in floating your walls, to see if you really want to do that or not: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173The base plates of the framing will be laid on top of 20mm insertion rubber. The walls will rest on the concrete slab.
That's too thin and too flexible. 50 x 100 is best.1. can the framing for the studs and base plates be 50mm x 75mm?
Only a structural engineer can answer that question. There are a lot of factors to be taken into account when calculating ceiling joist loads and dimensions: type of wood, span, live load, dead load, wind loading, seismic loading, deflection, etc. It is dangerous and unwise to try to figure this out yourself. Hire a structural engineer to inspect your plans and tell you what dimensions you need.2. can the rafters for the ceiling be 50mm x 150mm?
The joists (not rafters: rafters are for roofing, but this is just a ceiling, so those are called "joists") must sit on top of the double top plate which is the top of the inner-leaf framing, not under the top place as you show in your earlier designs. There might also be restrictions on how you can do that, in your local building code: type of fastener, length of fasteners, number and layout of fasteners, required bracing, etc. So check your building code to make sure.3. how does the rafters get attached to the walls?
If you use batts, then stand them up and attach them as recommended by the manufacturer. For some types, that just means pressing them into place between the studs. For other types, they need to be stapled to the studs. Other types can be held in place by the vapor barrier, or by strapping, or by wire mesh. Other types need impaling clips. Make sure you use the right type of installation for the type of insulation you have.4. how does the mineral wool/batting get inserted between the studs without falling down?
12.5mm is too thin. It should be 16mm. And why do you need to put wood battens on the ceiling joists? Normally, the drywall is attached directly to the joists. Just to clarify: you have joists in the roof trusses: those are what hold up the roof deck, which is the outer-leaf. The roof trusses rest on the outer-leaf walls, which seem to be brick walls in your diagrams. Then you build your new inner-leaf wall framing a few cm away from that outer leaf walls, so that they do not touch. There must be an empty gap between the existing walls and the new inner-leaf framing, and there cannot be any mechanical connection. The inner leaf walls stand all by themselves, with not even a single nail touching the outer leaf. Then you build your inner-leaf ceiling framing on top of those new inner-leaf walls, and it too does not touch the outer leaf at all: the ceiling is independent, and rests ONLY on the inner-leaf framing. No contact at all with the outer leaf walls, or with the roof trusses.2. The ceilings will be two layers of 12.5mm gyproc rhino board fixed to wood battens 400mm apart that will be attached to the rafters.
This is a tracking room for drums, right? So you do NOT need to slope the ceiling! That is only needed for a control room, not for a live room. Just leave the ceiling flat.concerns - 1. the slope of the ceiling 12 degrees with lowest point 2.1 m high. how far should it extend the length of the room before it reaches the arear to be used for drum recordings?
:shock: :!: WHY??? You already have a perfectly excellent floor: concrete. There is noting better for a studio floor: best possible isolation, and best possible acoustics. If you build a thin, light-weight floor such as you describe, you will make the isolation WORSE, and you will also harm the room acoustics. Forget that light-weight floating floor. Once again, I suggest that you read this thread, here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173 And also these: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8134 http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8135 And if you want to understand all the technical reasons of why this is such a bad idea, then read this paper: http://archive.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/d ... /ir802.pdf3. the floor will be 2 skins of 10mm fiber cement boards laid on 50 x 75 wood purlins laid on strips of 10mm insertion rubber 105mm wide. the floor to be finished in wood laminate.
IT would be better to just leave the floor exactly as it is: concrete is the best floor you can have for a studio. If the concrete is in bad condition, then just lay laminate flooring directly on the concrete (with underlay between, of course).concerns - would it be better to cover the floor with rockwool or simlar and then lay the floor on top of that ? (instead of using the 10mm x 150mm strips of rubber
Ahhh! OK, so this is going to be a single control and tracking room, all in one? When you said that the smaller room was already done, I though you meant that the smaller room was the control room! OK, so you CAN tilt the front section of your ceiling if you want to, if you plan to go with an RFZ design. In that case, the angle that you need for the ceiling depends on many factors, and so does the height and position. The only way to get that designed correctly is by ray-tracing.4. mix area to be designed as reflection free zone and to include soffit style mounting.
It's better to build it all together, as a single set of framing. The soffits are part of the framing too, usually, but you can also build them as separate modules. I have done that in a few rooms, where the framing is already in place, and it works fine. But if you are starting from an empty room, it is probably easier to design the soffit framing as part of the room framing. And exactly the same as for the ceiling, the only way to determine what angles you need for the side walls is by ray-tracing.concerns - im still clueless so im reading through the posts here to get a better idea - right now im not sure whether i should build the room as a rectangle and then add the reflection free zone and soffit construction afterwards
Do you really need that? If you have a good concrete slab as your floor, then the best idea would be to first try just like that, then only add the riser if it is needed to keep impact noise out of the floor.5. rear area of the room to be used for drum recordings and use drum riser on castors that will double as seating area when not recording drums.
Right! You want to keep the ceiling height as high as possible, so forget the floating floor, and forget the drum riser. You do not need the floating floor, and if it turns out that you do need a riser, then you can build it later, after the room is finished.concerns - the ceiling height and design for this area as well as the walls and treatment thereof
Excellent. - Stuart -The power and audio cabling - all power boxes/fitiing will be surface mounted.
Thanks Stuart.
i will discard the idea of the floating floor and drum riser.
The smaller room will house an SSL 4000 E Series and the room we discussing will house an MCI JH636.
The idea is to be able to record from any room and using the 2nd room for isolated recordings. The room we discussing is bigger so the plan is to use this room when tracking drums. This room will also be used for mixing. hence the plan to go with RFZ for this room.
And why do you need to put wood battens on the ceiling joists?
thats the common method used here.........ceiling joists are set 600mm apart with wooden battens 35mmx35mm attached to the joists 400mm apart and the ceiling board is then fixed to the battens.
The concern i have now is :
1.the rooms we discussing are part of an outbuilding ....ive done a test by knocking on the floor of the adjascent rooms and the sound can be clearly heard in the room earmarked for the MCI.....thats why i thought a floating was required.
2.the ceiling design and the soffit framing......WOuld it be better to leave the ceilings as high as possible and then use clouds of various design and use over the mix area and over the area for the drums?
3. Are there any links for construction steps for soffit fronts?
Thanks again for feedback.
trawling thought the info on flush mounting.........so basically the speaker stand/support must be decoupled from the bezel?
But is that noise coming through the concrete slab, or is it coming via some other path? Eg, through the walls, ceiling, door, HVAC, electrical system, etc. Also, if you plan to track something that could send impact noise/vibrations directly into the floor (drum kit, bass amp, etc,) then you can set up just that thing alone on an isolated platform of some type ("drum riser"), which prevents the impact noise from getting into the floor. It's a lot cheaper than floating your entire floor properly! And a lot better than floating it wrong...ive done a test by knocking on the floor of the adjascent rooms and the sound can be clearly heard in the room earmarked for the MCI.....thats why i thought a floating was required.
In general, yes. High ceilings generally improve the acoustics of a room. However, there is also the issue of the room ratio, which is the relationship between length with and height. You also need to make sure that you have a good ratio for your control room, so that the modal response is even and smooth.2.the ceiling design and the soffit framing......WOuld it be better to leave the ceilings as high as possible and then use clouds of various design and use over the mix area and over the area for the drums?
Good point! I should put together a list of links on building soffits. There isn't one right now. But you can search the forum for that, and you'll find TONS of information on how to do it. The basic concept is that the front baffle must be as hard, massive and rigid as possible. Some people have even been know to make them out of concrete... - Stuart -3. Are there any links for construction steps for soffit fronts?
However, there is also the issue of the room ratio, which is the relationship between length with and height.
are you refering to the outer room? that is based on one of bolts' golden ratios
But is that noise coming through the concrete slab, or is it coming via some other path? Eg, through the walls, ceiling, door, HVAC, electrical system, etc.
how can i check how the sound is getting into the room? if its the walls or floor?
i guess putting my ear to the wall. then the floor to check?
where can i get a guide to RFZ design?