Double Garage studio design : construction phase

OK, there ya go! (After all these years, I finally figured out how to move a thread... :) ) - Stuart -

Sweeeet ! Thx Stuart I'll post more news and updates in the construction thread from now on. Ace

and.... here we go ! Updating the build diary. Garage door - inside beefing up. Afterwards, rockwool and one layer of 18mm gyproc was added. Next up finishing ceiling of liveroom. Adding rockwool. First layer of gyproc controlroom. Cabling installed. Frontview of controlroom, first layer of gyproc installed. Backwall controlroom. Liveroom gyproc install. Liveroom wall facing street. (ex-garagedoor) Next up, second layer of gyproc. Did someone say Green Glue? :) Next update in a few days !! Ace

Next update !! Been working as hell. Planning wall and ceiling finishes, trapping etc.... Not that easy ! Untill then here's where we're at right now. Wood floor has been laid down. Controlroom view from door to loungeroom Ctrl room view from backwall Ctrl room view to window live room Live room view to ctrlroom. Laminated glass has arrived !! Outside: Entrance door installed. Side windows installed. LiveRoom view from left corner to ctrl room. Wall assembly between liveroom and controlroom. Next up: Installing windows and doors. Connecting electricity and sockets. Building basstraps and wall finishes. Question: What to do with the flat, horizontal ceiling in both rooms? Suggestion for liveroom: to build a sloped wooden ceiling, adding diffusers and clouds. Like this perhaps? and for the controlroom maybe build a false ceiling: wooden frame, filled with acoustic hangers; sloped 12° from front to back, covered in cloth....? A little like 'Silva Productions' in the John Sayers studios under construction site. Or should the controlroom ceiling require a different approach? Maybe cover the gyproc with a wooden finish and add one big cloud? Don't know what would be the best approach here. I'd start by building basstraps for the entire width of the backwall of the controlroom as well as the available corners in the liveroom. Then take care of the first reflections in the controlroom with resonators and absorbers. Hopefully this will result in a decent sounding room to start with. Measurements will be the next step. Cheerz guys Ace

Wood floor has been laid down.

It is generally better to leave the floor right until the end, after everything else has been done, to avoid damage during the rest of the work. Yours is already in, so I'd suggest that you should cover it very carefully, and very well, to protect it. It looks pretty good, though! Very nice.

Question: What to do with the flat, horizontal ceiling in both rooms? Suggestion for liveroom: to build a sloped wooden ceiling, adding diffusers and clouds.

I wouldn't use diffusers in there. The room is too small to be able to use most types of diffuser, and especially not on the ceiling. Diffusers need lots of space around them, and there just isn't anywhere near enough space between your head and the ceiling. So I would just use absorption up there, mostly. Clouds are a good option.

and for the controlroom maybe build a false ceiling: wooden frame, filled with acoustic hangers; sloped 12° from front to back, covered in cloth....?

The 12° angle only applies to hard, solid reflective surfaces, and mainly for the purpose of dealing with flutter echo. It makes no sense, acoustically, to angle cloth at 12°, since cloth is totally transparent to sound. You might want to angle it for aesthetic reasons, but there is no need for acoustic reasons. I would just put a cloud over the mix position, maybe hard-backed and angled if you suspect vertical modal issues, or if you want to eliminate flutter echo, or if you are aiming for an RFZ design.

I'd start by building basstraps for the entire width of the backwall of the controlroom

Correct! I'd do superchunks in the vertical corners, then thick absorption (maybe 6" or so) spaced away from the surface across most of the rest of that wall. It could also be angled, if you want: bigger gap at the top than at the bottom.

Then take care of the first reflections in the controlroom with resonators and absorbers.

Absorbers, yes. Resonators, no. Resonators won't help at your first reflection points, since they are tuned. At best, they will only help slightly, and only at the frequencies they are tuned to. You are much better of with just absorption at your first reflection points. - Stuart -

Hi, thanks for the info Stuart. Problem is, I already started with some of the aspects of my previous post. Such as the angled ceiling and the diffusors. Here's soms pics of where I'm at so far. If you think it would be better to remove it, I will. Controlroom ceiling with bass hangers. Deepest point is 25cm. Liveroom w/diffusors - view through windowframe. As for the floor, I put a hardwax on it for protection and will place mats where we'll be working on. For the controlroom backwall, I was gonna fill it up with rockwool and angle the backceiling somewhat, but for the vertical corners I was thinking of making hangers. Isn't that the better option? Or do you think superchunks would be better? In that corner I could hang about 5 to 6 hangers that would be 45 to 60 cm deep and 220 cm in height. I'll treat all first reflectionpoints with absorption first and then see what the room sounds like. Do these need to be closed constructions hung to the wall or can I build these frames directly on the existing construction and then fill 'r up with rockwool? My guess would be the first. Cheerz Ace

I already started with some of the aspects of my previous post. Such as the angled ceiling

The angled ceiling won't do any harm: It just won't do any good either! I'm not an expert on hangers (John himself would be the guy to comment on this for sure), but to me those hangers seem to be the wrong dimensions to work as hangers. They'll probably still work as ordinary absorption, but their height is just too short to be useful as hangers. They seem to be only a few centimeters high, and there isn't even any absorption in the ceiling itself, which is part of the design of a hanger system. They are also hung between the joists, so there are only a couple of them in each bay: To me, that would prevent them from acting together, as the pair in each bay would be unable to affect the pair in the next bay, due to the barrier between them. But you don't need to take them out, as they'll still be good for some sort of absorption, but I just don't see them working as hangers are supposed to work. What type of wood did you use to make them?

...and the diffusors.

What frequency range are those diffusers tuned to? They seem to be large, so I'm guessing that the cutoff is in the low mids, which means that they affect frequencies with long wavelengths. The general rule for numeric-based diffusers is that they must be AT LEAST three wavelengths away from your ears, and that "3 wavelengths" means "3 wavelengths of the low cutoff frequency". Assuming that the lowest frequency that your diffusers affect is 500 Hz (just an example), the wavelength for that is roughly 70 cm, so you would have to have them at least 2.1 meters above your head. Since normal ear height for someone sitting in a chair is 1.2 meters, you would need to have a ceiling that is at least 3.2 meters above your head in order for those diffusers to be useful on your ceiling. And for people who are standing, the height would have to be even greater. Some researchers do not agree with the "three wavelength" rule: some say it should really be a minimum of seven wavelengths! Still others say that the absolute minimum distance, regardless of tuning, should be ten feet, which is about 3 meters. So no matter which way you look at it, those diffusers are way too low. If you really wanted to, you could use diffusers that are tuned to much higher frequencies, so that the lowest frequency would be for wavelengths that place them high enough above your head. Assuming that your ceilings are at 2.4 m, and that everyone will be sitting down in that room, then you should tune then no lower than 1kHz. However, there is plenty of evidence that diffusers still do affect frequencies as much as one octave lower than their lowest tuned frequency, so you should tune yours no lower than 2 kHz. Of course, if people will be standing up in that room, then their heads will be much closer to the ceiling, so the tuned frequency would have to be even higher.

but for the vertical corners I was thinking of making hangers. Isn't that the better option? Or do you think superchunks would be better?

Either one will work, if you build them right. There is acoustic test data to show how superchunks work, but I have never found any data from independent labs that have tested hangers to see how effective they are, so it is impossible to say which one will work better. Both will work.

In that corner I could hang about 5 to 6 hangers that would be 45 to 60 cm deep and 220 cm in height.

That sounds fine, as long as you also line the walls around the hangers with thick absorption.

Do these need to be closed constructions hung to the wall or can I build these frames directly on the existing construction and then fill 'r up with rockwool?

For first reflection points, the absorption must be exposed to the air, so you can't seal it off from the room behind a panel. The front face (at least) must be exposed to the room. Also, absorbers work down to lower frequencies and work more effectively if they are spaced away from the walls, so if you can leave an air gap between the absorber and the wall, then that helps. They should also be as thick as possible, at least 10 cm, and even more if yo have the space. - Stuart -

Hey Stuart, thanx a million for the detailed response. to address a few questions you had; I've made the hangers out of softboard, the european equivalent to Homasote. Covered 'em with about 8cm of rockwool on each side and hung 'em about 4-5cm from the ceiling. Height is 25cm going down to about 15, with a total length of 210cm. The beams we're made to provide a way to fasten the fabric and cover the seems with wood finish. Didn't know this would interfere with the hanger-effect. Also, I didn't cover the ceiling with extra insulation, this aspect of a basshanger design is pretty new to me. Must 've missed it. Should I redo this, or do you think these hangers will provide enough absorption for a room like this? I'll certainly make sure I have this covered for the backwall hangers. These will be 220cm in height and 45cm in depth at the most. Is this enough for a room this size? Depth of the room is about 6m, width varies from 3 to 4,25. Height is around 2,30. In between the backcorners I have a 225cm wide section behind the area where the couch will be placed, which I've planned to cover with absorption. As I understood correctly, I'll need an airgap behind the layer of rockwool that is facing the controlroom, right? Would 5cm of air be enough for 10cm of rockwool? Regarding the diffusors, I made them according to a plan I found online. The pieces of wood we're made as plurals of 3cm, up to 12cm for the deepest ones. All we're placed in some kind of pattern. Here's the link; http://www.soundscapes.nu/rb_prd.htm If I apply the formula that's given on this site, the result gives me around 1,4K as the lowest frequency affected by the diffusors. 344/1400= 0,245 0,245/2= 12,2. If you really think this will pose a problem or won't do a thing to aid in a better soundfield, then I'll remove them. Since these we're made for my previous studio, I'd be sorry not to use 'em. Is there any place you think they'd fit well and provide a benefit? My suggestions would be the one wall facing the window in between the rooms. That's the ex-garagedoor. Other solutions could maybe be the frontwall of the controlroom? In between the soffits? Just guessing wildly here. :p I'd be glad to hear your suggestions. One other thing, before I continue building all kinds of stuff that are wrong :? what would this ceiling design do for the sound in the liveroom? I plan on putting solid wooden boards to a triangular shaped construction. This would give me a V-shaped diffusing ceiling, but also a closed cavity. (colored in yellow) I'd be leaning towards filling that up with rockwool, but wouldn't this then turn out to be just another resonant cavity? What would be a better solution? Space the boards apart, so a small gap allows for absorption and the boards provide diffusion? Or put nothing in there? I'm moving forward quite quickly with these acoustic changes so any help and/or advice is GREATLY appreciated ! :wink: thanks a lot man !! Ace

After a long period of hard work, it's now time for a bigass update ! here goes. Backwall of control room. Hangers installed, absorption and ceiling finished. Ctrlroom windows installed, doors installed. Start of soffits. Bass hangers installed, demo pair of Adams awaiting testing. Ceiling detail liveroom. Same on both sides of the room. Left wall of liveroom finished laying bricks. Also first woodwork off ceiling clouds posed against the wall. Other side of ceiling. Airconditioning installed. Night view of brickwall with mood lighting... and drumkit :) Broadband resonator finished in liveroom. Veneer wood finish on controlroom walls. Oak windowsill on both sides of windows. Looking nice ! Also testing out demo speakers. (Adams S3X-H & V, K&H O300's) Continued in next post....

Demoing the speakers, thus building soffits to fit them.... Sidenote: after carefull considerations, measurements, ... I chose to purchase the O300's. Close call, but the S3X seemed somewhat overwhelming in the lowend, and harsh in the himids... Camira fabrics placed on backwall and lighting installed. Building and installing ceiling clouds. Starting soffits for the K&H O300.

Stuffing loosely with leftover insulation. Finished with veneer walnut hardwood. Next up; cables and soldering work. Hooray ! :s Grunts @ the job ;p Next update will be a finished studio !!! thanks for the support to all at this forum cheerz Ace

All I can say is WOW. Looks great. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like, I am sure T

Thx man. I've tested it out and am glad to say it sounds great ! Better than I expected actually. With the right compression of the right room mics it sounds bigger than my previous room, which had a ceiling of twice my current height. Relief ! I'll post some audio samples of the room in a while. Isolation towards the outside and upper living area is excellent. Nothing to complain about and that's what's most important. here are some more pics 'bout the final stage. I'm currently recording an EP and after this week I'll continue with the build. Details, painting, and some isobooths in the second garage... here goes, enjoy. Modding the Toft desk, grounding to fit the patchbays...... scary shizzle ! Soldering the live room tie lines.... in the dark !!! Happy Halloween !! :p Added rockwool covered with fabric on the liveroom window wall... Also installed the 'On Air' recording cue light. Still have to wire the electrics. But it looks nice already. A nice and tidy live room. Courtesy of cleaning team mom and aunt !! ;p

Control room pics Wooden sun goes japanese style.... me likie !! A lot ! :) Loungeroom. Kitchen installed, needs some more flooring, gypsum boards and a paintjob. But it's useable for now. Just as a little extra.... First day of recording. Ever !!! Light of God shines upon this little drummerboy.... and he saw that it was good !! Thank u very much !

Hi there, I've almost finished this project, but I've been doing productions almost non-stop in here for the last six months. Which is nice ! I'd still need to build a desk and racks for my gear and need to finish the lounge. But for now it's pretty much my perfect studio to work in. It sounds great ! Liveroom is nice and dry. A bit darkish, but I like it. Very good for dry and warm sounding drums. Ideal for vocals and guitars. A tad boomy for bass. But I can manage. Did about ten recordings so far... Mixroom is heaven. Everything I do in here actually sounds the same outside the studio. I'm thrilled !! Also it's a very soothing playground, which is perfect since I'm now spending about fifteen hours a day in it. :) Here are some pictures of the Oceanside Studio so far ! cheerz fellas !

congratulations, your build looks fantastic and the pictures are truly inspirational :D Can I ask what you have used for your wall connections, made your own or bought?

I ordered 'em with Amptec Belgium. But I know you'll find these at Canford UK and US Bargainsound as well. cheerz Ace

Hey Ace, just wanted to say that your studio is absolutely F a n t a s t i c !!! great pics Well done man ! Simo