Double Garage studio design : construction phase

Hi there, first of all I'd like to thank the entire crew and all the professionals who helped build, maintain and provide us with the shitload of info that these pages offer us; your humble soundservants ! Thanks a million!!! I've already learned more from reading this forum than I have during my SAE college in Amsterdam. Incredible ! So, I've already build a successful studio a while back, but now I've moved house and will have to do it all over again. Something I'm looking forward to, but also dreading a bit. That's why I'd like to post my situation and open it up for improvement. This is the current situation; I'm moving in a residential area in about two weeks. Build can start 1th of march. The house is freestanding, and consists of two floors. A total of 480 m2. The ground level has two garages, some small rooms, a corridor that leads to the back garden, an electricity and heating room and the main entrance hall with a small toilet in the back. The entire ground level has a bare concrete floor, which I think is the original concrete slab the house was built on in the sixties. Which is a good thing, no? The upper level is the private area, which accordingly needs to be isolated from the lower level noise. Here's a picture of the house. The left garage door leads to garage A as posted on the studiostartup pic. I'm mainly recording full bands, lots of hard rockin' vibes and loud mixing. So I'll definitely need to address lowend rumble and decoupling from interior walls. My budget for this project is 50K usdollars max. Preferably less, 'cause I'd need some new gear in the studio as well. :) I've tried some different approaches regarding design, but I'm struggling to find the best way to fit in all the rooms, doorways and pathways. I'd like to follow the designs that are posted in abundance on these pages, but I think some professional help could greatly improve this design. I've also re-designed the start-up plan with some inner walls taken out, but I'll still need to verify if this is permitted. And if the house can remain strong enough with the added steel beams afterwards. Something I'll check asap when I can enter the residence. I'll post some pics and the skp. files. That way it'll be easier to see what I mean, and easier to help provide the best possible solution. Further building questions (floating floor, windows, etc... ) will be posted in the appropriate section of this forum when I get there. This is how the ground-level looks like to start with. Possible walls taken out. Have to check with contractor. This is my plan A. Here I don't actually know what to do with the doors on the back wall. They limit the possibilities of treatment of the backwall. Also don't quite know whether to keep the doorway to the garden or to close it. I'd like the option of a glass door and maintaining daylight in the control-room. This is plan B. All in the same garage. Could be easier to construct since I won't have to tear down walls and put in beams that cost a fortune. Control-room is too small in my opinion. Live-room too rectangular maybe? OR I can keep the control-room as in Plan A, and make a live-room as in Plan B, but then I lose the line of sight, and that's something I wouldn't prefer. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be glad to hear them ! :D Cheerz and thanks for the help ! grtz Ace

Hi Ace, and welcome! It looks like you are doing OK with your designs, and really there isn't much that I can add right now, since it looks to be a matter of personal preference rather than acoustics, regarding where you put each room. Did your contractor ever tell you which walls can be taken out, if necessary, and which must remain? - Stuart -

Hey Stuart, I'm about to move into the house at the end of this week, so untill then I'm not sure about anything yet. Regarding room design, I'm somewhat in the blue which ones would be best. Certain room ratios don't seem to fit the available space 'cause of the low ceiling. I'll have to dig into that asap. Important question would also be if I'll have to float my floors in order to gain isolation value. It's one big concrete slab so I don't think it'll be an improvement. I'll search this forum once more, but I'll need to figure out the best way to build the msm structure within the given rooms. Think I'll manage with all the info this forum provides. In any case, if anyone has any suggestions or answers to these issues, I'll be happy to read 'em. :) Cheerz Ace

On ratios: you don't need to go overboard on that: Just stay away from the bad ones, get in the general region of some good ones, and that's fine. Some people go nuts over trying to find the "holy grail" of ratios, hoping that this will give them a perfect room, but that's waste of time: there is no such ratio, or room.

Important question would also be if I'll have to float my floors in order to gain isolation value.

That one's easy to answer... : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8173 http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/p ... /ir802.pdf That should cover it pretty well! :)

but I'll need to figure out the best way to build the msm structure within the given rooms.

Looking forward to seeing your design! Looks like an interesting project, with lots of challenges. Good luck with the move! - Stuart -

Thanks alot Stuart. This weekend I'll start moving the smaller stuff and will be able to have a more detailed look around the ground level. All I'd need to know right now is wether the concrete slab is poured as one and how sound transmits. I guess it'll be pretty standard, well build as they did in the sixties. :roll: Next step is figuring out which walls can be taken down and which not. Then I'll finish designing of the rooms. Siked !! :yahoo: thanks sincerely, Ace

Hi guys I'm still moving house as we speak... Damn, that's a hell of a job... :s End is not yet in sight. I've still been thinking about roomdesigns and have come up with a third option; For this, I'll have to remove two walls, one of which being load-bearing. But, in comparison to plan A, less work and pay. And considering plan B, more room for a small price. I find this one most appealing. Only thing is... - What do you think about the idea of having a glass wall in the liveroom? Doubled with another one on the streetside exterior wall. About 10cm (4") airgap in between. Splayed. Would that provide a sufficient STC rating? I've found some acoustic windows that say to soundproof for about 45dB on lower frequencies (50to250). All I need is a little daylight... - Secondly, Should the outer rim of the ctrlroom (facing the 'still empty' loungearea) be an open leaf wall, or do the two rooms need to be separated from each other. Extra gypsumwall or just close up the ctrlroom structure at the outer side. Isolation from crtl to lounge isn't the highest of priorities. Anyone has any ideas or comments on the design, feel free to share your them. I'm most open for suggestions. Thanks, Ace

Hey Guys, in about three weeks I'll start building this studio. Starting of with tearing down walls and making the available space a little bigger. Plan C will be the one I prefer, so that's what's gonna happen. Unless someone here has a better idea? :lol: I'm still in doubt about the window on the streetside of the liveroom. Would this be an acceptable idea, and would double glazed laminated glass of about 45mm thick with an overall STC rating of 51dB, do the trick? One on the outside and one on the inside, with an air gap off around 10cm in between. And is this acceptable for a liveroom soundwise, or would these reflective surfaces screw up the sound of the room? It ain't that big and I'd like it to be really good acoustically, since I'm recording lots of drums in there. Cheerz fellas ! Ace

Hey guys, I'm about to take out a few walls and as it seems I could make this studio bigger than I thought. More then half of the groundlevel floor can be used. Only thing is, there's an entrance to the garden, which is private and an entrance to the garage, which is private as well. I could lock these, but that doesn't seem as the best solution. Also, I don't quite know what to do with this L-shaped area. I've been trying to fit in rectangular shapes, diamond shapes,.... but haven't come up with a single decent one yet. Any chance one of the experts here could have a go at it? :) Or maybe just a push in the right direction. Cheerz Ace

hey guys, small change of plans. After I got permission to tear down one more interior wall, I've had to re-evaluate and assess the situation. I've come up with a new plan, but I'm in doubt regarding some aspects of this design. - Is the back entrance of the ctrl room (towards lounge area) going to result in weird combing or can this 'hole' in the basstrap be ignored? - Furthermore, is the overall shape ok, or should there be any changes? Next wednesday I'll start the build. Firstly I'll try and post some pics of the startup fase. That way you can get an idea of what I'm working with here. Excitement is rising ! Cheerz Ace

What's in that room behind the CR, where the entrance is? There seems to be plenty of space there to extend the rear of the control room, avoiding that strange concave shape at the back. Whay can't you extend the rear and put the door into the side of the CR? Also, I'd re-think the window in to the LR and the shape of the iso booth: Right now, you have no line of sight into the booth (even though you have glass there, the angles prevent you from actually seeing anything at all, except a thin slice of the far wall). So why not reduce the size of the main CR-LR window, angle the wall of the iso booth the other way, and put a small vertical window, or even a glass door, between CR and booth? The booth would be bigger that way, and you'd be making much better use of space: that triangular patch is useless right now, and the booth is rather small. Just some ideas... - Stuart -

Hi, Trying to get a feel for your current design and layout ... In quickly looking, a couple ??? marks ... The opening outside the front of the control room [right monitor side] ... is this an archway, or a doorway ... ??? Where is/does the band 'load in' ??? I see an interior opening in the live room ... is there going to be a double door to the outside? Is the door width good to move equipment in and out ?? Sorry to raise mundane questions ... still hard to fully grasps the structure you have to work within. Pictures might help. BTW ... this planning/design stage is TOUGH !!! Combined with the 'Lets get the show on the road'. Andre coined the phase "plan/design is 90% of the work ..."

Hey guys, indeed, the planning part is crucial and I've currently looked at all possible designs with the given area. I've come up with one last plan. Think this might be the one. It's wider and easier to build. Vocal booth is fitted in better and the liveroom is the biggest this way. So which one would you guys choose. Considering acoustics, ideal room ratios, communicative benefits, seating area, etc... I'm in doubt between the last three designs. cheerz Ace

RJHollins wrote:

Hi, Trying to get a feel for your current design and layout ... In quickly looking, a couple ??? marks ... The opening outside the front of the control room [right monitor side] ... is this an archway, or a doorway ... ??? Don't quite understand the question. At the right side there's just empty space. I've angled the walls so that I wouldn't have to angle them afterwards. Don't know if that's the preferred way to go, but in this way I obtain necessary symmetry. Where is/does the band 'load in' ??? On the lefthand side of the liveroom, opposite the controlroom that is, there's an big garagedoor which I'd convert to an entrance. Maybe just add mass to the existing garagedoor, seal up everything and cut in a doorway. Maybe add a window too. I see an interior opening in the live room ... is there going to be a double door to the outside? Is the door width good to move equipment in and out ?? Door is gonna be about 1m wide, big enough for an Ampeg fridge, so it's big enough for everything else as well. :D Sorry to raise mundane questions ... still hard to fully grasps the structure you have to work within. Pictures might help. I'll try and upload some in a few hours. Stay tuned ! BTW ... this planning/design stage is TOUGH !!! Combined with the 'Lets get the show on the road'. Andre coined the phase "plan/design is 90% of the work ..."

Tell me about it!! I even dreamed about it. I think I've considered almost every option with this area. Thought about easy entrance, communication and relaxing space. Any other comments or suggestions are welcome. cheerz guys !! Ace

Here's a design for the frontend of the liveroom, with doorway and possible windows. grtz

Here are a few pics of what I have to work with. I've added a drawing with all the angles the pics we're shot from. Hope this can clear up the situation. As for the design part; I've stumbled upon an issue regarding the last design I made. Seems the depth of the controlroom isn't big enough. Listening position is leaning towards 50%, and I can't seem to find another way to fix this in this design. Think I'll need to rotate it back 90degrees as in the previous design. ....thinking.... Ace

Yet another possibility.... Smaller liveroom (which doesn't make me happy), better room ratio (started off with Louden's third best, and widened the back somewhat), vocal booth (no line of sight to liveroom :( ) I'm lost... Build has to start on monday. So I still have 3 days to decide which design is best. Any input is more than welcome !! cheerz guys Ace

Another design. About 5 in total. Doorway in the back left side of Controlroom is the one to the restroom and the private part of the house. Not ideal, but offers more possibilities because now I can deepen the back wall. Behind that is the lounge area. (door at right hand side of back wall) In front of the ctrlroom I've put one vocalbooth and one isobooth. I think they might be too small. Don't quite see a way to move 'em... Here goes... Cheerz Ace

That's the one I like best, so far. The two booths are small, but the iso booth is unworkable: there's no place to open the second door! :shock: You didn't even show the second door: I guess that's why. If you take out the iso booth, then the vocal booth becomes much more usable. Do you really need an iso booth as well? If so, I'd put it in the far corner of the live room. My 0.02. - Stuart -

Heyhey, I redid my last design, and decided I didn't need the isobooth. Instead I'll build some isocabs later on in a separate room. The vocal booth was small indeed and didn't weigh up to losing the space I had before. So I decided to lose that booth, build a larger controlroom and make some hobos for when I need dry vocal recording. Think that will do the trick as well. I've started the framing yesterday but I wanted to let you guys in on the current situation. If anything seems of with this design, better hurry ! :) But I'm having a good feeling about this one. Don't know if the room 's ratio is ok, with the length and all, but I don't think it'll prove many problems... at least I hope. Soon, first pics of the build. Do I make a new thread in the build section, or do I continue on this thread. Cheerz guys Ace

It looks good to me! I'd still check the ratio, just to make sure, but off hand it looks OK. You could probably lose those couple of feet at the rear, and allow passage through those doors behind the CR, instead of through it. The room would still be a decent size like that, now that the booths are gone at the front. You could put the main door in the middle of the rear wall. Just an idea! - Stuart -

Yep, that was another option I integrated in a previous design. But then you suggested I'd move the back wall further out and put in a side entrance instead of a passage through the backwall. :p I like this one better 'cause of the size. The passage is kinda narrow, but I don't think it counters the benefits of the size and the easier way to integrate the basstraps on the backwall. If I add another doorway on that backwall, I'll lose a serious amount of trapping. That previous design was on somewhere in the middle of the first page of this thread. If you think I'd have to go back to that one, I will. Tricky situation ! thx for the input Stuart ! grtz Ace

Hi there, I've started building for about two full weeks now and have almost arrived at the end of the wood structure of both rooms. Here's some pictures of the progress so far. - First I decided to add some insulation to the existing ceiling which consisted of hollow bricks. As the living area is right above, I really need the extra isolation. I added 5cm of Sonepanel (soft rockwoolish) in a wooden structure. I then covered it with some thin plastic to keep the insulation from falling to the floor. After that I started building the frame for the two rooms. The main entrance and side windows have been cut out of the garagedoor. The interior of the garagedoor (towards the entrance wall of the liveroom) is going to be insulated with 10cm of rockwool and a layer of 18mm gyproc. Does the gyproc aid in sealing it of and making it airtight, or does it make a resonant cavity instead? So, should I leave the rockwool exposed or cover it up with gypsum? I wanna respect the msm here, and I don't know what the extra qyproc would do to the msm system. Any other thoughts are more than welcome. This weekend I'll put in cablework and next week it's rockwool time !! :s cheerz Ace

..think I'd better move this thread to the construction section. Do I just start a new one, or will this one be moved? thx Ace

I think there's a way for me to move the thread... Not quite sure how... I'll experiment on a "fake" thread, before I try it on yours.... don't want to accidentally delete the whole thing! - Stuart -