Low ceiling basement studio plan

Started by mike mofo on 30 January 2012. 41 replies. In the Library under Walls, floors and ceilings.

Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 17351.

My wife and I's basement is going to be renovated soon and we're planning to make it into a mixing studio space with a bathroom and laundry room. Our goal is to sound isolate the basement studio from the shared neighbours' and from the floor above. My level of research is moderate as I've read Rod Gervais' book and have been learning as much as I can from forums like this for the past 2 years. Despite my interest in acoustics and sound isolation, my basement poses challenges that I haven't seen addressed. Firstly the low ceiling (a problem for me as I'm 6'2). Secondly, the even lower ducts cut down the middle of the space. Thirdly, there's no air conditioning attached to our furnace and I don't know what to do about getting fresh air into an air-tight sound insulated studio. My house is a semi-detached and the new neighbours have a bedroom adjacent to the basement studio area. Therefore, the priority is to stop sound going to the neighbours. We want to stop flanking paths to the joists especially but the floor cannot be stopped by any means I know of. Under the ducts, we're planning a double wall assembly with 2 layers of drywall and green glue. We have opted against quiet rock in general after reading these forums exposing the lack of TL info by this company. However, the ceiling assembly would be a perfect situation to use a quiet rock like product since headroom is so valuable to me. The floor to the bottom of the Joists is 6'5" and I'm 6'2". I've read all threads pertaining to low ceilings but none that I've come across are this low. I'd love to have some opinions on these options since the ceiling is so low. 1)Run new joists (wood or metal?) between the existing joist and hang a decoupled ceiling (single layer drywall on resilient channel). To save headroom, the new ceiling will have to be very close to bottom of the existing joists. The subfloor will be beefed up with 2 layers of drywall with green glue and insulation. 2)Attach 2 layers of drywall with greenglue between directly to the existing joists. The subfloor will be beefed up with 2 layers of drywall with green glue and insulation. 3)Just beef up the subfloor (as well as the joists with GG?), insulate and cover with breathable fabric (what is out there that looks good?). This option might be the most acoustically pleasing but will one foot of ceiling height really make that much difference? Are there good ratios for room modes with low ceiling? The level of isolation I hope to achieve is for mixing at moderate levels so I'm concerned about bass frequencies and therefore haven't considered QuietRock since it's said not to perform as well as GG in the lows. [/url:x764ps2j] Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Seriously consider the possibility of lowering the basement floor, or at least the part of it you want to use as a studio - this can be done. :idea: :wink: Regarding HVAC, read Rod's book again on this, adding a split system is pretty easy. Also search the forum for HVAC and AC.
I agree with Brian: think really carefully about lowering the floor. There's no way you can get a decent level of isolation into a 6'5" space and also have reasonable acoustics. Even by interleaving the new joists between the old, leaving just 3/4 inch between the bottom of the joists and the new ceiling, with two layers of drywall your new ceiling will be down to about 6'3". Then you need at least 2 inches of treatment on that, preferably 4, so you are down to around six feet, or less. Even if you weren't so tall yourself, even if you were really short, the acoustics in there would not be good with such a low ceiling. And you are right: the "quietrock" stuff is not going to help you much, nor is any other type of unusual material. Even if you were to go the best possible route, with some type of isolation clip directly on the existing joists and something really exotic like 4mm steel plate for your ceiling, you'd STILL have only about 6'2" after basic treatment. And even in the absolute best case, of being able to get enough isolation for your needs out of a single leaf (unlikely) by beefing up the existing floor, you'd still only have 6'5"! There's no way that a room with such a low ceiling is ever going to sound good. Sound needs height. I'd look into the "jack-hammer on the floor and drop it a few feet" option. But that's not something you should be doing yourself, probably: Call a contractor and get professional advise on if that is even possible in your house, and if so, how to do it. There actually are a few build threads here on the forum where people have done that, successfully. It sounds scary, but it can be done.
Despite my interest in acoustics and sound isolation, my basement poses challenges that I haven't seen addressed.
I'd venture a guess that you haven't seen such low ceiling heights covered because nobody even tries!
Thirdly, there's no air conditioning attached to our furnace and I don't know what to do about getting fresh air into an air-tight sound insulated studio.
That's actually not a problem at all. Like Brian said, a mini-split system will do the cooling and humidity control for you, and you can just run some additional air ducts to get the stale air out and fresh air in. Put silencers in those ducts. This is a very common way of doing it. - Stuart -
Thanks for the replies! I will now go ahead and get a quote on the lowering the basement option. So that's why I have never seen figures for such low ceiling height! My contractor worked out the savings of QuietRock vs. Multiple layers of drywall and it as a very substantial cost reduction...even factoring green glue. I will reply again as soon as I hear back from my contractor regarding lowering part of the bsmt. In the case of my basement, I wonder if only lowering the studio area would be the way to go? Also, how low could/should we go? Do we need special permits/ inspection for this that the contractor can't provide? In the meanwhile... I will 'pass the sKetchup' along :arrow:
File not preserved: sketchup mofo bsmt5.skp
Got word back from my contractor regarding lowering the bsmt. It sounds like it'll be very expensive and well over our budget. Now I am left with two options. 1) Continue with the bsmt reno with sound isolation in mind and forget about acheiving a good acoustical space. 2) Move my studio to the 2nd floor where there's 2 very small bedrooms that have high ceilings. I don't have the measurements on me here but the upstairs rooms are both about the same size (the house is a semi-detached built in 1920). I hadn't even considered this option previously since I know that it's harder to sound insolate above ground rooms vs. bmst rooms AND because the rooms dimensions are very similar and cubic. The upstairs rooms might be easier to make work acoustically than the basement which has many things going against it. What do you all think? Thanks to this forum for making me realize this! Now to consider floating floors... :yahoo:
Quick question regarding ceiling of bsmt install>>> If I was to attach a ceiling to the joists to provide me with the best head room (height), will administrating green glue to the the underside of the joists do ANYTHING to dampen transmissions? That's all for now...YES OR NO? Thanks again!
If I was to attach a ceiling to the joists to provide me with the best head room (height), will administrating green glue to the the underside of the joists do ANYTHING to dampen transmissions?
IT would probably hep slightly, yes, but whether or not the effect would be worthwhile i hard to say. Green Glue does not decouple or isolate: It's purpose is constrained layer damping, which greatly cuts down on a certain type of acoustic effect inside the wall (or ceiling), but the rest of the wall (or ceiling) should be built properly too, in order to maximize the effect. If you want maximum head height and can afford the extra cost (not that much), then you might want to consider using resilient channel (RC-1) across your joists, and hang two layers of drywall from that, with Green Glue. It reduces room height by a few cm , yes, but it will give you decent isolation. If you do go that route, I'd also suggest sealing the floor above you, and maybe adding a layer of drywall to the underside, to beef it up. But before doing any of this, check with a structural engineer, to make sure that your existing joists can handle the extra load. - Stuart -
Thanks Stuart for that reply. Your initial response to my room design was that with such a low ceiling, acoustics will be bad. I helped out a sound tech today who suggested going the route of a breathable ceiling. He suggested that the sound going to the neighbours is both transmission and flanking (from the joists/floor etc). Staggered Stud walls at the adjoining wall could stop a great deal of sound, he thought. I am fine mixing at lower volume and at agreeable times during the day if it means I can have good acoustics. That said what is your opinion of going this route? The cost being saved in not building the drywall ceiling could be used toward the walls! Thanks Mike
Mike, think of sound as if it were water. (It only "sort-of" behaves that way, so it's stretched analogy, but easy to understand.) If you want to build an aquarium to keep your goldfish in, how many sides do you have to put glass on, to keep the water in? Answer: All of them! If you only put glass on three sides, then obviously that won't work: the water will just splash out all over. 4 sides won't work either, for the same reason: you have to do the bottom too. Even if you decide that you can't afford all that glass, but you have a piece of carpet that you could put in one side, some old newspapers stuffed in another side, and a bit of cardboard taped o with duct tape for the last side.... Well, you get the picture. :!: :D Such an aquarium ain't gonna hold water! And once the water spills out from one side, well, it's out and is now all over the place: it doesn't just carry on spilling out in one direction: it spreads out all around the aquarium, in a huge messy puddle (and your goldfish dies...). In order to keep the water in, you need glass and perfect seals on all sides. Same with sound: to isolate your room, you need the SAME method for ALL walls. Doing one wall one way, and another wall a different way, is like putting glass on one side of the aquarium and carpet on the other: Just like the water takes the easiest path out, so does the sound. And once the sound is out, then it doesn't just carry on in only that direction, but spreads out all over, in a huge mess. (The only good part is that your goldfish doesn't die if the sound gets out of your room! :) ) In other words, the isolation of your room is only as good as your weakest side. If you have a great concrete floor capable of 80 dB TL, and four really good staggered-stud walls rated at 50 dB TL each, and a cloth-and-rockwool ceiling rated at 20 dB, well then the isolation of your room is 20 dB. That's all you get. Basic physics. Yes, sound travels through both paths: airborne and structure-borne. But to stop it getting out, you have to block BOTH paths. Just blocking one is no use. The average bedroom or living room in an average house does a pretty good job of blocking airborne sound if the doors and windows are closed, but is lousy at blocking structure-borne, and worse still, it converts airborne to structure-borne in the walls! The air-borne sound makes the wall and ceiling surfaces vibrate, that vibration is transmitted into the studs and joists, and from there to everywhere in the house. In order to stop that, you have to decouple the wall and ceiling surfaces from rest of the structure. Staggered studs is one way to do that. Resilient channel is another. Separate framing is a third. But you have to decouple, one way or another, or the air-borne sound will become structure-borne. If you don't decouple, then you are limited by a principal of physics called "mass law", which isn't very encouraging. Yes, a soft ceiling is a great idea, and highly recommendable, but that is TREATMENT not ISOLATION. They are two entirely different things. Your sound tech might be a great sound tech, but he suffers from the same misconceptions that most people do about acoustics: they think that absorbing sound can somehow stop it, but that simply isn't the case. You CANNOT stop sound with any reasonable amount of absorption. Another water analogy: A sponge in the kitchen is a great tool for mopping up water that spilled some place where you didn't want it. But can you stop the water pouring out the tap by putting a sponge across the end? Obviously, no, you cannot! You need a cork. The cork is massive enough, rigid enough, and has a good enough seal that it will stop the water. Likewise, acoustic absorption is a great tool for mopping up sound that spilled someplace you didn't want it, but can you stop sound getting out of the room by putting absorption on the walls or ceiling? No, you cannot, for the same reason that the sponge cannot stop the water flowing out the tap. To stop sound, you need a sound "cork". You need something ,massive enough, rigid enough, and with good enough seals around the edges to stop sound. Such as drywall, for example... Your sound tech is mixing up the two concepts: isolation is one thing, and is accomplished only one way: mass. There are no other economical ways of stopping sound, no magical products or incantations. Just mass. And treatment is another thing entirely. Isolation needs mass, treatment needs absorption. Two different things. Corks and sponges. Not interchangeable. Think of it this way: Isolation (mass) stops the sound getting out of your room. So if it can't get out, where does it go? Obviously, it stays IN the room, bouncing around for a while before eventually dying out. While it is bouncing around, it is called "reverberation", and how long it takes to die down is called the "RT-60" time for your room, but that's another story that we wont go into yet. So isolation keeps the sound in, and that makes your room sound BAD inside, due to the reverb. Not what you want! That's why you need treatment: to "mop up" the sound spilling around your room, and make the room sound good and clean again! THAT is the purpose of acoustic absorption. It does not stop sound getting out, any more than a sponge stops water, but it is damn useful for mopping up that sound splashing around, just like the sponge is damn useful for mopping up splashed water. So that's the issue: If you want isolation, you need mass, all around, on all six sides, to the same level. If you want treatment, then you use absorption. If you need both isolation and treatment, then you need both mass and absorption.
I am fine mixing at lower volume and at agreeable times during the day if it means I can have good acoustics. That said what is your opinion of going this route?
Well, that gets back to the 64,000 dollar question! How much isolation do you NEED? You have to put a number on that: How many decibels of isolation is sufficient for you to be able to work at your normal mixing levels, and not disturb the rest of the house, or the neighbors. That's the first and most basic question that you have to answer. Beg, borrow or buy a sound level meter, and use it to come up with that number. Based on that, you can look at the various options for attaining that level of isolation, and see which one fits your situation and your budget. Right now you are guessing, since you have no numbers, and I can't help you much either without those numbers. So, get a meter, set up a loud, bass-heavy mix playing in that basement, just like it is right now, on your very best full range speakers. Play it at about 100 dB on the meter (that's LOUD! Use ear protection). Use "C" weighting and slow response on the meter. Now walk around the house, and your garden, carefully noting down the levels at each location, especially at the property lines to your neighbors. Find the loudest point on the list of places you went to, and get someone else to turn down the level gradually while you stand at that point, until you can no longer hear the music. Measure that level back inside the room, and at all other points, just in case. Now you know how much isolation you need. (The above is one way to measure it: there are others). Now you have a number: it's the difference between "How loud am I?" and "How quiet do I need to be?", for the worst case. Now repeat that test starting from the NORMAL level that you mix at, which should be around 85 dB (that's the "standard" level) and measure those levels around your house, etc., in the same places again. Once again, subtract A from B. This gives you the absolute minimum isolation that you need. So now you know the minimum level of isolation that will work for you, and also the recommended level that you'll need for peaks. (You also have other data hidden in those numbers, which is how much isolation you already have! That's another useful number to know....) Maybe it turns out that you don't need to do much, but if that were the case then you wouldn't be here! So, with your numbers in hand, we can then look at things like IR-761 and IR-169, and see what types of construction will get you that level of isolation. There's no need to guess: those documents show the results of huge numbers of tests on dozens of different types of walls and floors. So we just have to find one that hits your number and fits your budget and uses the least amount of headroom possible. That's the smart way of approaching this! :) By the way, if you cant "beg" or "borrow" a meter, you can get them for for about US$ 50 to 100 on E-bay, Amazon, and places like that. Not expensive. - Stuart -
Thanks so much for the help Stuart. I have realized finally that isolation is required with this construction. We demoed the basement and some added costs have arisen due to the shoddy work by the previous owner which I won't get into here. I will buy a sound level meter and run some tests in the coming days to determine the level of isolation required and to have readings to compare with the finished results. My currently pressing question is regarding the size of the room. What would produce better results, getting the room to be as large as possible (it still won't be the recommended 2000 cu ft>>>something more like 1356 cu ft) or following the recommended room modes and have a room that's roughly 900 cu ft? With the larger room I'm hoping there will be more space for bass. thanks again! Mike
(it still won't be the recommended 2000 cu ft>>>something more like 1356 cu ft) or following the recommended room modes and have a room that's roughly 900 cu ft?
ITU and EBU recommend around 1500 cu.ft as the minimum size for critical listening rooms, but that doesn't mean that you can't get a darn good studio in less than that: Take a look at what John accomplished inside a shipping container, and listen to some of the stuff recorded in there... :) But regarding trading off volume for ratio: I'd go with more volume every time, unless that would get you really far away from any good ratio, and close to a bad one. How bad is your calculated ratio data for the largest volume? What would the dimensions be for each of the two cases (max volume vs. best ratio)? - Stuart -
Stuart, once again thanks for the help and interest. At maximum volume the rough dimensions are 23'x9'x6' (taking into account ducts and non-rectangular portions). Note: I have to say 6' because there's low hanging ducts. I don't have a mode calculator for OSX (the only ones I could find require Filemaker). However, I have been using one at the PC at my work (I'm a video editor by trade). Since our basement was gutted last week, we found some set backs in the way of having to redo the perimeter wall for correct vapour barrier and framing. The previous framing was rotting especially in the washroom (where there was no vapour barrier) and around the window. The added costs are rotting away our budget. Full disclosure, we had allotted 18,000$ CND for basement renovations that were to include washroom, laundry room and sound isolated 'studio space'. We were initially quoted 15,000$ for labour by our contractor and the rest of our budget was for appliances and bathroom fixtures/tiles etc... and some extra sound materials. We had an HVAC (ductist?) come by and are expecting to hear (on Monday) quotes on what he can do for us since the ceiling is exposed and the HVAC system is archaic (only one air return for the whole house). BTW, The most difficult part of Rod Gervais' book for me to grasp was the HVAC. What should I be specifying that is needed for the music room? Is it one air return with silencer, one air supply (don't think we need/can afford A/C... using a fan from outside then silenced and a baffle for the heat vent? DIY is possible especially since there's a bsmt full of contractor tools. I setup a meeting that my contractor will attend with me and people from a local sound isolation supplier/specialist. Speaking to them on the phone, they advised to stay away from resilient channel. I feel that's reasonable advise. I described the dilemma with my low ceiling (and my tallness). My current stance on simplifying the install and gaining the most headroom and cost efficiancy is to screw directly to the joists 1/2" drywall (or 1/4" plywood-any opinion on this?) then 5/8" drywall with Greenglue between. The rep responded to my alternative solution of running new joists between the existing joists but higher up, then installing GenieClips and hat channel with one layer of drywall would improve isolation by a much larger number (and maintain the best headroom clearance -7/8th of " vs 1 2/8"). I think the added costs and labour involved are not worth it but I would consider using the clips elsewhere. Unfortunately there's something I wish I thought of earlier which would have been the most simple and cheapest solution (tell me if I am wrong). Put simply, build a room inside a room. Decoupled from the joists and from the perimeter wall. So simple and so cheap. We hadn't considered this before because the perimeter wall didn't need to be rebuilt until the bad framing and rotting window frames were discovered. On Friday the contractor went ahead and reframed the perimeter wall but he did it attaching to the joists. Had we been on the same page, we would have explored the avenue of keeping it decoupled and used the top bracing to run new - slightly lower joists inside the existing joists (is this even possible). The framing is very solid right now due to being fastened to the old joists. Would it be advantageous to undo the fastening to the joists somehow (the screws are crazy deep in there)? It's very much my fault for not having a plan in hand but this could be an opportunity to build a room inside the room and save on clips decouple the ceiling! The only sections that would be problematic to decouple would be the electrical panel and the window frames which he'll be re doing. Now that I think of it, the window's might be the deal-breaker. Also, the contractor insists on using wood framing even though I requested metal framing. Is there any simple way to tradition him to cutting metal? Can the metal framing act as a new top brace to the perimeter framing if we undo the top? There's a product that the Rep suggested for the bottom bracing called Iso-Sill however it only comes in one long length. We had an HVAC (ductist?) come by and are expecting to hear (on Monday) quotes on what he can do for us since the ceiling is exposed and the HVAC system is archaic (only one air return for the whole house). BTW, The most difficult part of Rod Gervais' book for me to grasp was the HVAC. What should I be specifying that is needed for the music room? Is it one air return with silencer, one air supply (don't think we need/can afford A/C... using a fan from outside then silenced and a baffle for the heat vent? DIY is possible especially since there's a bsmt full of contractor tools. Tomorrow, I hired a friend to help 'beef up' the subfloor. We have 1/2" drywall that we'll be putting up with backer Rod and Acoustic Caulking. We'll be relocating the cross bracing of the joists. Since they're really brittle and old joists, nailing just splits the wood and I know Rod suggests using nails but we'll probably use screws... thanks for any thought! Mike
A few comments:
Speaking to them on the phone, they advised to stay away from resilient channel.
Did they say WHY they advised that? What reason did they give? Something that isn't covered in NRCC-44692? Strange that they would tell you that, when RC is a tried-and-trusted method of decoupling. Even stranger that they would then suggest clips and hat channel instead, when it's basically the same underlying concept! Yes, you might get a bit better performance with clips and channel, but the extra penalty in height loss doesn't seem worth it to me.
My current stance on simplifying the install and gaining the most headroom and cost efficiancy is to screw directly to the joists 1/2" drywall (or 1/4" plywood-any opinion on this?) then 5/8" drywall with Greenglue between.
Forget the 1/2" drywall, or 1/4" plywood, and use ONLY 5/8" of either one. 1/2" and 1/4" are too thin, to flexible, and have too little mass to be useful for what you want.
Put simply, build a room inside a room. Decoupled from the joists and from the perimeter wall. So simple and so cheap
Ummm... I thought that's what you were doing anyway??? :shock: As I mentioned above, isolating our ceiling only, without also isolating the walls, is pretty pointless.
Had we been on the same page, we would have explored the avenue of keeping it decoupled and used the top bracing to run new - slightly lower joists inside the existing joists (is this even possible).
Actually, I did mention that in one of my earlier posts: "Even by interleaving the new joists between the old, leaving just 3/4 inch between the bottom of the joists and the new ceiling, with two layers of drywall your new ceiling will be down to about 6'3". ". Also, you have Rod's book, and he does show you how to do that!
Would it be advantageous to undo the fastening to the joists somehow (the screws are crazy deep in there)?
If you go that route, just cut the studs a few of inches down from the joists, and put double top plates on them, to support your new joists. Also either drill out those screws or get a good blade on them, and slice them off.
Now that I think of it, the window's might be the deal-breaker.
Why? If you already have one window in your existing outer leaf, then you only need to add the second one in the inner leaf, if you want to keep the daylight.
We have 1/2" drywall that we'll be putting up with backer Rod and Acoustic Caulking.
Once again, forget the 1/2" stuff, and go for 5/8". More mass, thicker, more rigid, etc. - Stuart -
Thanks for your help once again Stuart. The reason the REP said resilient channel wasn't good was for the labour involved and it being prone to shorting out. As for framing, the contractor is undergoing a redo of the window frames which were rotting and it looks like think he will be tying it into the framing ... I'm not sure how to decouple the wall from the windows... even if using resilient channel on the wall. Today we put up some 'beef' betwixt the some of the joists (one layer of 1/2" drywall as that's what the contractor ordered for me). It was easier to screw them into the subfloor but I'm just curious if that shorts them out? hopefully we'll get 5/8ths and get GreenGlue to continue this beefing up in the evenings. We're getting help from a handy friend to do some of the work ourselves.
The reason the REP said resilient channel wasn't good was for the labour involved and it being prone to shorting out.
OK, so maybe he could explain how clips plus hat channel is any different in that respect? The number one reason why resilient products like this "short out" is due to poor installation, where someone put a screw in the wrong place, too close to a stud or joist, and the screw went through the channel (either hat or RC), right into the wood). Yes, clip plus hat gives you a slight advantage here, due to the extra depth, but you could still do it without trying too hard, especially if you have multiple sizes of screws around the place, which you will need for the second and third layers....
As for framing, the contractor is undergoing a redo of the window frames which were rotting and it looks like think he will be tying it into the framing ... I'm not sure how to decouple the wall from the windows... even if using resilient channel on the wall.
I think I must be missing the point about your framing: Maybe you could post some photos of how things are right now, before moving on at all, so we can see what you have and suggest your best move!
(one layer of 1/2" drywall as that's what the contractor ordered for me).
Not a good move! I mean, 1/2" is better than nothing, but not as good as 5/8", for all the reasons I mentioned.
It was easier to screw them into the subfloor but I'm just curious if that shorts them out?
:shock: You SCREWED the drywall to into the subfloor! :shock: :!: :!: :cry: Ummmm... maybe this is not a good time to mention it, but you are not supposed to glue, screw, nail or otherwise attach it to the subfloor: You are supposed to hold in in place with cleats, and caulk around all the edges for an air-tight seal... Well, at least you used screws, not nails, so it won't be too hard to take them out again, and do it right. (Nails or glue would have made that a tough job!) But you won't be able to re-use that drywall, since it will have screw holes all over it. (Fortunately, it's only 1/2" drywall, so no big loss...)
We're getting help from a handy friend to do some of the work ourselves.
When you are done with him, could you send him to Chile please? I could use some handy friends like that! Whenever my "handy friends" promise to help me out, they always seem to find something more important that they have to do but had forgotten about (like mowing their lawn, taking their garbage out, beating their head with a brick, and other fun stuff...). Keep that friend! Provide lots of refreshments for him! Write him into your will! - Stuart -
You are a beacon sir... So our work was all for nought huh? It's our handy friend who didn't listen to my instructions and went ahead with what he thought was 'easiest'. Just like the contractor who thought that 1/2" drywall would be what I would want for this task because it's 'easier'. It's getting to a point where it's not worth pursuing unless it's done right. We will undo the 'beefing up' and do it right ourselves but I feel like the challenge of soundproofing isn't something that general contractors or friends care about. I think it will be best we will do the soundproofing slowly and carefully rather than contractors or friends doing it quickly and in-effectively. We'll post pictures this week. We have a washroom and laundry room that the current contractors can forge forward with and an HVAC guy will be giving us a quote on our in-effective ducts. So there's still plenty to be done...don't want the music studio to be rushed...I want it to be hushed. -mike-
I feel like the challenge of soundproofing isn't something that general contractors or friends care about.
Unfortunately, that is so very true! The problem is that acoustics is not part of an average contractor's training, and he has no idea what is involved. Not really his fault, as building for isolation and good sound is rather different than building a normal office or house. Same materials, same tools, different techniques. Some things need to be done differently, since sound isn't normally much of an issue, so they don't normally need to worry. For example, air-tight sealing isn't something they have to bother with, but it's fundamental for isolation. Ditto decoupling. Ditto using mass correctly. Ditto using insulation correctly. Ditto windows, ditto doors, ditto HVAC, ditto electrical. They do all of these things every day, but they are used to doing them the "quick, easy, efficient" way, which is normally the WRONG way for good isolation and good acoustics. If you find a contractor who has worked on studios or even home theaters before, then you stand a lot better chance of getting him to do it right! Otherwise, the normal reaction you'd get from an average contractor when you try to explain things to him, is a blank stare, and a kind of "Are you nuts? Why do you want to do it like THAT?" look in his eyes.... Well, at least you are in the right place to learn all about this stuff! Your best plan is to post frequently, and ask lots of questions BEFORE you do anything new! And post photos, diagrams, and your SketchUp design, for sanity-checking, too... - Stuart -
You hit the nail on the head. The last straw was this morning I specified that a portion of the wall on the perimeter that they were going to be framing not touch the perimeter or the joists. When I got home, it was again braced to the joists and was butted up against the other frame. I thought I was being clear but I'm done blaming myself. There's a possibility that it's cheaper to redo the framing than dealing with a million resilient channels! I don't know.
Most of the framing is probably fine, and can be used. All you need to do is cut the top couple of inches off each stud, and put new top plates across them. Simple, really. - Stuart -
OR...give us pictures so we can see what it is the guys think they are up against that needs this bracing.
I will take some pics... immediately. Just an update that I have a meeting with the acoustics supplier (W i l r e p ) this Friday and my contractor is coming along 'to learn' or to continue to 'not care'. Also as you will see from the pics, the ducts are an area of concern. I finally got a quote from the HVAC guy about giving us a few more returns. BUT he has no idea what is needed for a soundproof, air tight area. I can try to explain it until I'm blue in the face but I'm not getting any confidence in this guy.
Question - is RC-2 easier to install on a wall then RC-1?
I am curious as to your impressions of the Roxul batting. I was noticing Lowes will special order their "safe and sound" stuff used for sound absorption at a pretty good savings over other mineral wool, or or 703/705 batts...