Drum Room in basement

Hi everybody, Did anyone had the time to look on my framing. Every advices are welcommed. Thanx

I am not an expert as I am not a carpenter by trade but your method is the same as what I have used for my build, How ever I'm not sure wether 100mm x 50mm timber will be ok for your ceiling span, i'm sure Brien or Stuart will advise if they see the post.

Hi everybody, I've started the construction of my drum room. So the goal is to isolate as much as possible. No floating floor as the room is in the basement. Framing in 2x4 (10cmx5cm) Framing is almost done. Room will be small but yes i knew it from the begininng. Could you please take a look on pics underneath and give your comments. I also have some questions. - The structure of the room obliged me to have on some walls 20 cm between the two leafs (existing wall and future drywall). Which is good for the isolation. I will fill this cavity with fiber glass wool. There is one thing i was not able to clarify by searching on the forum : Is it better to fill the whole cavity with the insulation OR to leave an air gap between leaves? Do we have to compress the insulation between the leaves and if yes, how hard can i compress it? - I've already made the wood boxes for the electrical boxes. As you can see in the pictures, i've used 2x4 studs even at the back of the boxes. i will also caulk these boxes. Do you think i should also put some layer of drywall at the back / on the side of these boxes. - I've bought some green glue to put between the plaster boards layers. The goal is to put three layers of drywall. What sould be the best sequence for you? PB,PB,GG,PB PB,GG,PB,PB PB,GG,PB (maybe the third layer is not usefull with GG...) - Here in belgium (even in europa) it's impossible the find acoustic caulk. Should i use standard silicone or this kind of product could be better? It was proposed by technical staff from the brand itself because it's more flexible than regular caulk but.... it's more expensive (9€ a tube). (HYBRIFLEX HM) http://www.denbraven.be/images/stories/ ... LEX-HM.pdf Sorry it's only in french Next steps : finish the walls and ceiling framing. Thanks for the help!!

Hi, does anyone have 5 min to look my framing. Your advices are gold!! Thanks a lot

does anyone have 5 min to look my framing.

It looks good in general but a couple of comments: Sealing. There seem to be large gaps under the sole plate in several places. It looks like the tiles are very uneven. It is very, very important that you seal those as well as possible, from both sides. Acoustic caulk is the answer, forced in deeply to those cracks.

Is it better to fill the whole cavity with the insulation OR to leave an air gap between leaves?

Fill it completely if you can! That will gain you the maximum isolation. However, there might be fire code regulations that you have to comply with, so check your local building code first. If you are allowed to fill completely, then do that, but be careful that you don't "overfill". You don't want to force or compress the isolation to get it in: use just enough to fill the cavity, no more, and don't push it in.

Do we have to compress the insulation between the leaves and if yes, how hard can i compress it?

None! No compression. If you compress it, you run the risk of creating a "bridge" or "flanking path". It should just lightly touch the wall surface on each side, so don't force it in.

i've used 2x4 studs even at the back of the boxes. i will also caulk these boxes. Do you think i should also put some layer of drywall at the back / on the side of these boxes.

That should work fine, provided that they are sealed. Are you going to use conduit for your cables?

The goal is to put three layers of drywall. What sould be the best sequence for you? PB,PB,GG,PB PB,GG,PB,PB PB,GG,PB (maybe the third layer is not usefull with GG...)

Contact Green Glue company and ask them. They also do have some guidelines, instructions and suggestions on their web site: look at those carefully. There might be more info there.

Here in belgium (even in europa) it's impossible the find acoustic caulk. Should i use standard silicone or this kind of product could be better?

Any good quality flexible caulk will work, provided that it is very flexible and always remains flexible, even when fully cured. Also, get one that sticks really well to all of the surfaces that you plan to use: in your case, you need one that sticks very well to both ceramic tile and wood. Get a white or colored caulk, rather than a transparent one, as they are more dense, which is good. I'd suggest that you put up the ceiling framing and do all the electrical and HVAC installation, so we can see how all of that is done before you do the dry-walling. It's much easier to see and fix problems with the HVAC ducting or electrical installation BEFORE you put the drywall on! - Stuart -

Hi Everybody, @Stuart : many thanks for the support!! your advices are really helping me. Actual status : Framing (wall and ceiling ) is done! I've caulked the framing to the floor and at every framing intersection. Also i've added some stud where the ceiling will take place in order to have somehing to 'push' the baker rod and caulking on. Electrical : done. I've instaled 5 electrical boxes. Fixed and caulked! Also I've put some studs in order to have something to 'hang the cable for the light spot Question of the day For the electrical boxes, I have space in the wood boxes that I can fill with something. I was thinking about putting some cement. is it a good idea? Next week I will instal the ventilation. And also the insulation. About the insulation I have some question I've posted in another topic. It would be great if I could have your confirmation. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17591 Any comments and suggestion are welcommed!

?question? Are you doing a 'Room within a Room' build ??? I asked, because, it looks like you connected your walls to the structure rafters. !?! This seems different from your drawing.

Hi, Yes, I build a room within a room. And no there is no connection at all between new walls/ceiling and existing ones. In which picture(s) do you see that?

In your post #21 ... the very first picture. From what I can see in the pic, it 'looks' as if those boards that you might be using to back the 'backer rod' are connected to your wall AND they are screw/nailed into the floor joist above. [you also have them caulked].

@RJ Indeed it 'looks' like but it isn't the case . both room are totally disconnected. Besides this observation do you have any other remarks. @ Stuart : as you are the most activ experienced member of this forum, it would be very nice if you could help me with my insulation problem. I cannot make the final choice : my two options are Insulation bats : http://docs.isover.be/TF%20Comfortpanel%2032LR.pdf Advantage : They are semi rigid and they will not fall inside the wall Disadvantage : They are made with a fibreglass film. Maybe this could create an extra leaf in the MSM system They are more expensive Insulation rolls : http://www.knaufinsulation.be/fr/products/knauf-ti-135-u Advantage : No film => no extra layer They are sheeper Disadvantage : I plan to put two layers of insulation, one layer betweeen existing wall and framing and the second will be instaled between the studs and I'm afraid that the first layer can fall into the walls after several months/years, because I will not be able to 'compress' It between studs (gravity), . Thanks!

Day 7 and 8 : This week end I've installed insulation Finally I bought the product ISOVER ISOCONFOMFORT 35. The density is about 25 kg/m3. It comes in roll and with a film with a preprinted grid which helps a lot for cuting. I bought several thickness. Sometimes in order to avoid any compression I had to take off some layer of the fluffy thing. Walls was quite easy. For the ceiling it was a lttle bit more complicated because I had to instal insulation between all ceiling joist (and there is a lot). I had to cut really thin and long pieces. And I had to compress them between the joist a little bit to be sure they hold. Hopefully this will not create any flanking path. Job done! For the ventilation. The ventilation machine will be instaled in the little space I've created for the electric cabinet. Every air entries and exit will be done via the walls (exit in the cabinet - entries via the new wall between the two rooms). I didn't had any space in the ceiling. Therefore i cannot do anything for the ventilation before the walls are finished. Anyway I already made a hole in the concrete wall of the cabinet place. On the other side of that wall I have another room with a 'floor window' (i don't know how the call the little window house have in the street floor that brings air to the basement). Next week : plaster board!! here some pictures Any advices, questions, remarks are welcommed

Day 10 to 12 : first layer of plaster board No major issues excpet that I've already used twice much caulk than calculated... some question : For the second layer do I HAVE to put it horizontaly. Or is it sufficient to be sure that the junction of the both layer are not in the same place. I plan to put putty packs in the electrical box but i don't know where to buy this in belgium. Is this product really designed for acoustic isolation of electrical boxes or is it used for other purpose. Because i've asked some electrician and nobody knows about this... About mudding the plaster board : Can I mud over the caulk? Do I have to? Or I must absolutely not do it? Next step : mud the first layer Instal second layer with green glue some pictures Any comment suggestion are welcommed

For the second layer do I HAVE to put it horizontaly. Or is it sufficient to be sure that the junction of the both layer are not in the same place.

As long as the joints do not coincide, it's fine if you want to put it vertically. No problem.

I plan to put putty packs in the electrical box...

How are you going to do that??? You already put the drywall on, so you no longer have access to the back of the electrical boxes: they are inside the wall, now.

... but i don't know where to buy this in belgium.

If you can't find it, then a good alternative is just to box in the entire electrical box with wood and/or drywall, and caulk it. As long as you maintain the mass and the seal around the boxes, it doesn't matter how you do it. But once again, I don't see how you are going to do that, since you already have the drywall on. Do you have access to the other side of the drywall, from behind?

About mudding the plaster board : Can I mud over the caulk? Do I have to?

Not really necessary on the first layer. If it is well sealed, and you are going to be using Green Glue, then you should be fine.

No major issues excpet that I've already used twice much caulk than calculated...

:) Only twice as much? Then you did something wrong!!! :D (Just joking!) - Stuart -

Quote: No major issues excpet that I've already used twice much caulk than calculated... :) Only twice as much? Then you did something wrong!!! (Just joking!) I can vouch for this also, I bought 27 900ml tubes of caulk thinking it would be plenty for my build so far i have used 18 tubes for my build and i have only built the entrance hall and control room, I still have the live room to do which is bigger, and I am going for an extra layer for this build so I can see me needing another box maybe 2 :shock:

Another vouch for caulk ! Save yourself time & money ... buy it by the case .... several cases :shock: I lost track how many I went through :| Speaking of caulk ... AND 'backer rod' [another item purchased in quantity]. As it worked out for my build, the scheduling had several days [at times] before the next step. Which I was very happy about BECAUSE, even with high quality caulking, you may find a section or two where the caulk settled, and leaves a gap. Especially when I was caulking at the floor to drywall area. The drywall being 5/8" thick, with a gap at least a 1/4"+, it difficult to see underneath :roll: I ended up using a small hand mirror that I could angle to view the seal along the floor as I crawled along. Point being ... after caulking, be sure to triple check your work after several days ... you may find a surprise !! which WILL compromise all the work. [As Stuart points out, we are to build an airtight room ... a small air gap is all it takes 'for all the water to leak out']. Not quite the proper quote, but still very important. Sincerely.

Hi everybody, a lots of work since my last post.

3 layers of drywall installed Double door installed Ventilation installed and running.

First tests have been made. Quite happy of the result. The weakest point is the ventilation. One mistake i've made (i think) is to use 'home depot' isolation panel to cover the inside of the silence box. Maybe i should take this out and use proper rock wool... I have now a small room isolated (260 cm * 350cm * 204 cm height). Yes i knew it from the beginning but I'm quite happy (and proud) to have this little ... aquarium of my own. And aquarium is the problem. the sound is (logically) awfull in there. I've already search a lot on the forum about acoustics and what i've discovered is that acoustis is muuuch more complicated than isolation!! So i really need some advice. What I know already is that i will build some panels for the walls and bass trap panels for the corner. But i don't know how thick they have to be. The thinner the better i would say because ...yes it's a small room. Would regular DIY rockwool be ok for my project? And about the ceiling I really don't know what i have to do. And the ceiling height is a problem. I was thinking to stick polyurethane panels on the drywall to dead it but I know (now) that acoustic materials bought in home depot are everything except acoustic materials. Do i have to dead it? If yes how can i do this the thinner as possible? The goal of the acoustic treatment in my room is to kill the aquarium effect. I'm not searching a really specific acoustic result for recording or so. Just have a focused drum sound (but not dead sound) Here some photos of the room Any comments are welcommed P.S. : i have now used three times much caulk than first estimated...:-)

One mistake i've made (i think) is to use 'home depot' isolation panel to cover the inside of the silence box. Maybe i should take this out and use proper rock wool...

I would use proper duct liner. But regardless of what you use to line it, that isn't going to make a huge difference in the isolation. That sounds like more of a design or construction issue, than a materials issue.

I've already search a lot on the forum about acoustics and what i've discovered is that acoustis is muuuch more complicated than isolation!!

Oh yeah! I think that qualifies for the "understatement of the month" award! :) Seriously, the more I study it, the more I learn that I just don't very much about it.... sometimes I think I'm going BACKWARDS on the learning curve!

But i don't know how thick they have to be. The thinner the better i would say

Unfortunately "thin" and "bass trap" cannot be used in the same sentence! It's against the laws of grammar: the words are just totally opposite, mutually exclusive...

Would regular DIY rockwool be ok for my project?

Yup!

I was thinking to stick polyurethane panels on the drywall to dead it but I know (now) that acoustic materials bought in home depot are everything except acoustic materials.

Yup, they sure are. It is better to first measure the acoustic response of the room, use that to determine what needs to be done, then design specific treatment to deal with the issues that show up in the analysis by building devices that are designed to address those problems, not other ones that you don't even have!

Do i have to dead it? If yes how can i do this the thinner as possible?

No, you do not need a dead room. That would be bad. Dead is unpleasant. You need a neutral room, with an even response in both the time domain and the frequency domain.

Here some photos of the room

Looking good! But here's a suggestion for your door latch. Remove the bolt, and add magnetic seals around the door (sort of like the ones on your refrigerator door), then add a suitable door closer, that automatically closes the door correctly. Much better and safer than using a bolt.

P.S. : i have now used three times much caulk than first estimated...

Oh no! :shock: Then you didn't use enough yet! Better get more!!!! :) :shot: - Stuart -

Hi everybody, The room is finished now. I would like to thank all members and moderators of this forum who helped me with this project. This forum is really complete and professional. And without it i would have made a lot (more) mistakes in the room construction. I hope my own experience could help anyone on this forum. And I would like to thank specially Stuart. You always took of your time to guide and help me. Many thanks!! here are some pics

Wow! That place is looking really nice! Congratulations on a great quality build. So how does it sound? Does it isolate as well as you wanted? Any complaints from your neighbors? It would be really good if you could get some actual measurements done with a sound level meter, and post them here. But it looks like you did a really, really good job there! Very nice. :thu: - Stuart -