Thread Switched To... | John Sayers’ Recording Studio Design Forum archive

Hi Mike, Some thoughts about your original post (now deleted, as you moved to the new thread), as there's useful information in there, that others might find helpful in the future.

And the bottom studs and top studs will have a rubber lining beneath(bottom)/above(top) them.

That actually won't help much with isolation, since you still have to bolt/screw/nail through that to keep the studs in place. The rubber underneath helps to create a better seal, if you have an uneven floor, but doesn't do much to decouple.

Then, I am going to use a product called Genie Clips, which are sold by Wilrep (I'm sure most of you have heard of these) along with Resilient Channel to make my wall NICER..

If you use Genie clips then you need hat channel, not resilient channel. Genie clips decouple, and so doss resilient channel, so you don't need both.

On top of that goes a layer of 5/8" drywall. Based on the pamphlet book in my hand, that would be at least 56 STC which is more than enough for that room

It's unlikely that you'd get STC 56 just from a single layer of drywall on RC. The pamphlet probably specifies more than just that, such as an air gap of insulation fill. Also, you should be aware that STC is a lousy way of measuring isolation for a studio: STC does not cover the most important frequencies at the low end of the spectrum. You should be using TL.

The W Wall will be my super wall

Actually, trying to do one wall better than the others isn't useful. Isolation is "all or nothing", meaning that you need to isolate all sides of yoru room to th same level. Isolation is only as good as the weakest link. Think of it this way: Even the best isolated studio in the world has no isolation at all when the door is open...

The floor will be (carpet/hardwood <-- I will ask about this below).

Go with hardwood. Carpet is a bad idea for studios.

Basically the entrance (on the S side) will have two doors separated by 3 feet of airspace. That should supply a SUPER high STC,

Depends on the doors, the seals, and the workmanship. It could be good, but it could be really lousy too. Seals are amazingly important.

In my pamphlet, a wall of this construction WITHOUT GG would have an STC of 62 (these are based on lab tests), so with GG added, I'm guessing the STC will be approximately 70

that seems rather high! Green Glue is really good at improving the part of the spectrum that STC doesn't even cover, at the low end. Green Glue does not improve isolation directly, but only adds constrained layer damping to the system, so the best gains are in the low end.

The big 4'x3' window will compromise that though. I'm hoping to get an STC of 60+ for it

It's hard to build a single window that will give you STC-60? That isn't easy...

The E wall is going to have its own 70ish STC wall built so there will be awesome soundproofing between the rooms.

A wall to give you STC-70 is also pretty hard to do! To give you an idea of what is involved here, the difference between a wall that gives you 40 db of isolation and a wall that gives you 70 dB of isolation is a factor of TEN THOUSAND PERCENT. The 70 dB wall must absorb or reflect one thousand times more energy than the 40 dB wall.

The resulting all will be d-GG-d, chan, clip, 2x4 w/ batt-ins, 1 inch space, 2x6 stud built by the house builders with batt insulation, , 1" space, 2x4 w/ batt-ins, clip, chan, d-GG-d. So this wall is going to be super soundproof and super thick...

Well, you seem to be decouple that wall more than necessary! You only need to decouple it once. Anything more is a wast of time, money ant effort. Isolation is governed by the principles of physics, and there just aren't any magical products, magical sequences, or magical incantations that will improve on the isolation that the laws of physics define, despite what some manufacturers want you to believe! Only three things matter: Mass, distance, and decoupling. Adding Genie clips to both side of the wall is not really necessary (with few exceptions). Adding resilient channel to Genie clips is no necessary. And adding both of them to an already fully decoupled wall won't gain you anything. The wall you describe will have a resonant frequency of 24 Hz. It will not isolate until 33 Hz, and will only isolate well above 72 Hz. It will give you maybe 60-something TL, if you seal it correctly and build it correctly.

The ceiling in the drum room is really low. It is only 6-3, and with the ceiling I build and the AcousticFloor, it's going to be under 6 feet. It is the drum room, so standing up straight doesn't matter, and with the right treatment it should sound fine.

Unfortunately, that's not going to work very well. You just can't get good drum sounds with a low ceiling. For example, there's no place where you can hang overhead mics if the ceiling is only 6 feet high. No matter where you put them, the comb filtering and reflections would be lousy.

So I'm leaning towards a carper floor finish.

skip the capet: there are some very, very good reasons why you seldom see carpet on the floor in proper studios.... (nor on the walls, nor on the ceiling...).

The only STC problem is based on the windows I have put in.

If you have a room that has five sides built to STC-70 and one side built to STC-30, then the entire room is around STC-30,... Sad, but true. The lowest level of isolation always wins, not the highest level.

1) Do you recommend I do use Roxul batt insulation. What about other brands? Advice please!!

The brand does not matter. What matters is the density and the gas flow resistivity. You can use mineral wool, or fiberglass, or semi-rigid fiberglass, but in each case it must have the correct characteristics.

The windows are made up of two 5/8" panes, which the previous guy said not to do.

In general it is better to have two different thicknesses in order to avoid coincident effects, but that can be overcome in other ways.

I'm not sure about his configuration but it involves 3 panes per window (or three sections).

That sounds like a 3-leaf design to me! Not a good idea. This is not intuitive, and most people don't realize it, but when all other factors are equal, a three-leaf system will ALWAYS give you WORSE isolation than a two-leaf system.

I'm guessingthat is around 70 STC.

I think that's a little optimistic. Also, STC isn't a good way of specifying studio isolation. It is theoretically possible to build an STC-70 wall that is pretty lousy at isolating drums and bass guitars... And it is also theoretically possible to build an STC-50 wall that is great at isolating drums and bass guitars... STC doesn't tell you much anything low frequency isolation, as they just aren't even considered in the calculations.

They said their solutions have been tested..

Then ask for the full acoustical laboratory reports, and check that the testing was done by a reputable, independent lab, not by their own lab. If they can't (or won't) give you many such reports, then forget them. Reputable manufacturers will not have a problem in giving you all the data you want from independent lab tests of their products.

I will have to cut 2 of the studs. Maybe If I add the frame on the drum side first, it will give the necessary support to make up for cutting the studs...

Don't cut anything yet! First you need to find out if it is structural or not, and if so then it's a big job. You should hire a professional, qualified contractor to do that for you.

They were built by the home builder so I don't know if cutting even only 2 is a good idea.

Don't cut anything if you don't understand the consequences. Never, ever do that. It might be fine to do that, but it also might not. Only someone who is professionally qualified in building structures can tell you that. I'd suggest that maybe you should call John, or e-mail him, or PM him, and ask him for a quote for designing your studio properly, then give those plans to a professional contractor with experience in building studios. This is your only safe way of getting yourself a studio that does what you want when their are structural issues and poor acoustic spaces involved. Paying John's fee will actually save you money in the long run, without any doubt. If John isn't available, then contact one of the other guys here who knows how to do this right. If you don't know who they are, then PM me and I'll give you a list.

though no sound should reach the control room at ALL from the drum room, even with something as low as a 50 STC window between the drum room and main room,

With an STC-50 window in the wall between CR and drum booth, you will be getting levels of around 60 to 70 dB in the CR. That's pretty loud...

9) Are there soundproofing things I must do to ensure sound doesn't somehow go through the ceiling and into the metal vents?

Yes there are.

Currently, I don't have any air supply vents going int othe drum room or main room. I was thinking of letting the doors stay open all the time when the studio is not in use,

Well, that's a common thought of people who come to the forum for the first time, but your drummer has to breath or he will die, and with the doors open you have no isolation! So spending thousands of dollars on isolating this drum booth to STC-70, but then leaving the doors open because you have poor ventilation isn't a good idea! :) You should spend a little more money, and install a properly designed, isolated HVAC system, so your drummer can stay alive. He'd probably like it if you did that! :)

11) Any ideas for the electrical? I was thinking surface sockets? The guy at Wilrep told me those are good.

Yes. That is indeed the correct way to do it. The entire electrical system should be surface mounted. - Stuart -