Hello everyone. I've read the "before posting" post, and done a bunch of searches before posting (and lost of reading, especially this: viewtopic.php?t=598)
I'm in redwood city, ca, USA.
I'm building a backyard cottage (or more correctly having it built). I DO have a budget, pretty healthy compared to some, $25k, but ultimately tiny for building a real studio, I know. I'm ready to spend the money (have approval from the finance committee). I haven't broken ground; I have not put down any money. I'm in the planning stage but my wife is in "get it done" mode.. so am I... no drawings yet.
I've been looking at a local company http://www.shedshop.com/ to do the build.
The main use of this building will be recording and rehearsing. I'm not actually planning on routinely having live drums in this space. I have a v-drum kit which I use for rehearsal. I will sometimes want to (try) and record acoustic drums in the space, but likely only daylight hours. Obviously this will be a control room/recording room with no separate spaces. I will want to record vocals, acoustic guitar, hand percussion, and other acoustic instruments in this room. I will also want it to be a decent room for mixdown for my (own personal) projects. I will not be renting out the space and do very little work for hire.
The "right" space, from a logistics perspective (location, amount of room in the yard, and Wife Acceptance Factor, is 12 x 16. Their original plans call for a 7' ceiling, but I've asked them to quote out an 8' ceiling. They don't offer any vaulted ceiling option... not sure whether that would be an improvement or not (probably not from what I've read). That said... I know the dimensions are all less than ideal, and I know there are probably things I can do to improve it. That is just part of the reason why I'm here. I know only enough about acoustics to be dangerous.
I was planning on having a small bathroom at the rear of the studio which would (or could anyway) be walled in, thus reducing the dimensions a touch (conversely, changing the math of the room, maybe in an improved direction). That is one of the main questions I have too, but I'll outline the questions below as requested.
I was not planning on initially building in HVAC... I was going to frame it for a wall unit (8k) and pull a separate circuit for it, but hopefully not have it. I'm feeling like it's about a 50/50 thing where I live that I'll need it.
Summary:
- backyard cottage building
- 12x16x8 size
- goals are for recording of acoustic and electric instruments (a lot of my electric instruments go direct), live drums during day time hours if I can get the room sounding good enough, and rehearsal for 4-5 piece band (using v-drums)
- nearest building is my home and my neighbor's home (30" away)
- my current setup is in my garage, which is cinder block, 17x23, but only half of which is used for my studio. No neighbor problems in that room. Windows are the weak spot, as well as garage door. We've been proactive stopping at 11p or so and they have been fine.
So my specific questions (and thank you all in advance for any thoughts you may have on this project):
Question 1: dimensions
- Are the dimensions of 12x16x8 really that bad? Is it better to go lower height to break up the multiples? Is the bathroom in the back infringing on the space going to improve the acoustics? If I went to a 10x16x7 size (which would be cheaper) would I significantly improve things? Could I do the 12x16x8 size and add sufficient acoustical treatment to make the room work as described above?
Question 2: general construction
I have asked the company to bid this out with two layers of rock of different thicknesses, 2nd layer on RC. I'm reading that surface mount electrical is the way to go to minimize penetrations, so I'm shooting for that. I wasn't planning on doing anything with the floor (concrete slab). Is this enough do you think, given the limitations of how I'll be using it? Should I put 703 in the walls (or similar)? If so, how will that improve isolation?
Question 3: acoustic treatment
I think it makes sense to not even discuss this until I nail down where I'm going from a size perspective, but I am thinking about it.
If there is anything else I'm missing (that might be otherwise obvious) please advise. Thanks in advance for any assistance.. and links to other threads is also very much appreciated. I've found these so far:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10847&p=77853&hilit=garden+cottage#p77853
viewtopic.php?t=1589&highlight=shed+studio
http://homerecording.com/bbs/general-di ... one-88275/
backyard cottage studio assistance please
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 15816.
if you could go to 8'h x 11'w x 17'd or 8'h x 13'w and 15'd it would be better than even multiples. that said, is that the exterior or interior dimensions? worst case, go with the 8x12x16 (more volume is better) and plan on treating the space more. the walls - you want both drywall layers on the RC. or better on isolation clips and hat channel. this way your mass is a single leaf then an air gap then exterior sheathing. much more isolation. the bathroom shouldn't be an issue.
They don't do odd multiples, and yes, that is exterior dimensions so maybe it's not so bad... I was definitely thinking more volume is better too. So you are saying -> studs/RC/layer 1 sheetrock/RC/layer 2 sheetrock? or... -> studs/RC/layer1 sheetrock/layer2 sheetrock? I thought it was -> studs/layer 1 sheetrock/RC/layer 2 sheetrock.. Thanks for the response! I know my budget for treatment is going up as we speak...if you could go to 8'h x 11'w x 17'd or 8'h x 13'w and 15'd it would be better than even multiples. that said, is that the exterior or interior dimensions? worst case, go with the 8x12x16 (more volume is better) and plan on treating the space more. the walls - you want both drywall layers on the RC. or better on isolation clips and hat channel. this way your mass is a single leaf then an air gap then exterior sheathing. much more isolation. the bathroom shouldn't be an issue.
"I've been looking at a local company http://www.shedshop.com/ to do the build. "
4 25k...you want to learn how to do it...that isn't enough money to build a complete room on a residence, much less a stand alone m/s/m assembly with hvac and proper electrical plus a finished interior.
p.s. when they say "studio" they are not referring to an audio environment.
Yes, I'm fully aware of what they are building. I'm having them customize it to my specs, including RC, extra layers of rock, flushmounting electrical, etc. If there is one thing I've learned about myself, it's that I'm an OK musician... but I suck at home repair stuff!4 25k...you want to learn how to do it...that isn't enough money to build a complete room on a residence, much less a stand alone m/s/m assembly with hvac and proper electrical plus a finished interior. p.s. when they say "studio" they are not referring to an audio environment.
"but I suck at home repair stuff!"
Since we are not talking about home repair, are you certain that you have the correct amount of information to spec this out?
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, forgive me... It's the same skills as home repair... for example, I just spent some time working on crown molding. Cutting, hammering, manual labor... I'm not so great at. :) As far as the correct information... I think that's why I'm here :) I know my limitations!Since we are not talking about home repair, are you certain that you have the correct amount of information to spec this out?
"It's the same skills as home repair."
It is not home repair we are talking about. It is construction of a building, and all the modifications required in respect to an isolated/acoustic environment.
If you think it is this simple, as home repair, then you may be in the wrong forum :)
It's the latter - stud - RC - 2x drywall layers. Consider substituting the RC with isolation clips and hat channel. More isolation although it will be more money. If not, MAKE SURE they use RC1 on the walls and RC2 on the ceiling. It's VERY common for a builder to use furring strips/hat channel directly and that will NOT provide the isolation you seek.
If you know someone who can double check their work as it progresses (I.e. On-site) it may help to endure they do it right. Like using the right lengthy screws etc to avoid coupling you drywall to the studs etc. Backer rod and caulking plus proper staggering for the drywall seams etc is something that needs to be checked to avoid leaks and resonant hot spots.
I think you are inadvertently proving my point my friend... :) My point is, I suck at home repair, why would you suggest I would be BETTER at work that is more complex? :) I get it, and that's why I'm here!If you think it is this simple, as home repair, then you may be in the wrong forum :)
Thank you... really appreciate the specificity. I didn't even know there were two types of RC. It's seeming more and more like I should get someone local involved who knows what he/she is doing, rather than rely on the company in question. I will likely have them leave out finishing and find someone who has experience and/or will follow my specific guidance (based on my learnings). Super helpful, thank you... Does anyone know if there is a simple to follow cross section available that I can use to show a contractor type how to do this? I've searched and I'm seeing some conflicting info.It's the latter - stud - RC - 2x drywall layers. Consider substituting the RC with isolation clips and hat channel. More isolation although it will be more money. If not, MAKE SURE they use RC1 on the walls and RC2 on the ceiling. It's VERY common for a builder to use furring strips/hat channel directly and that will NOT provide the isolation you seek.
It might not be conflicting, really: just different ways of doing things for different circumstances. The basic concept isn't too hard to follow: You have studs with something on the outside to keep the weather out, then you have RC attached to the other side of those studs, then you have one or two layers of 5/8 drywall attached to the RC (one or two, depending on how much isolation you need). That assumes that the "something that keeps the weather out" is reasonably massive. If not, then you might have to beef that up with some extra mass, but hopefully that won't be necessary since it seems that you don't need high levels of isolation. However, since you have figured out that the shed people might not be your best option, and that you are probably going to get someone with more experience to build it for you professionally, then you might want to also consider getting it designed professionally. You could e-mail John and get him to quote you for that. Or you could carry on doing what you are already doing: learning enough to design it yourself, and asking folks here for help each time you get stuck. But you do have a long way to go on that front yet. Which leads to another question: do you need it build fast, or can you live with what you have for several more months yet, while you learn this stuff and design it? If you have the time, then it would be much cheaper to spend that time learning and design it yourself. But if you need it fast, then hire someone to design it for you, and hire a contractor to build it. - Stuart -I've searched and I'm seeing some conflicting info.
That is super helpful info... thank you very much. I did receive a quote from the shed people, and it was all inclusive of everything I asked... seems pretty solid. I'm waiting for one more quote.But if you need it fast, then hire someone to design it for you, and hire a contractor to build it.