basement studio project

hello, my name is davis and am i a musician from minneapolis, mn.. i'm new to the site, and am happy to have been turned on to it by a friend.. here's the deal.. just bought a new house and i get part of the basement (an existing bedroom) for a studio. so far all i have done is tear down 1 original wall and move it to maximize my space.. as i mentioned, it was an existing bedroom (typical drywall construction with the exception of an exposed block wall) and it has very minimal isolation especially from the ceiling side.. a lot of the recording i have done up to this point has been midi and direct. i think i have always tried to avoid putting mics on things because i have never had a good isolated place to record, but i want to change that with this studio... i would at least like to have one area of good isolation to put an amp in or use for a vocal booth at times.. i would love to be able to track drums and live ensembles as well, but understand that with my budget i might not be able to with the greatest results.. my budget is very minimal, maybe 500 USD now, and then hopefully upgrade it over time.. i am looking for the least expensive way to get the best out of this room.. i really want to be able to track an entire album in this space over the next 6 months. the majority of the room only has about 6'6" of headroom as it is and i stand 6'3 so i don't want to lose any headroom, unless that the only thing that works. tearing off the lid is not an option right now.. also the area over the wood floor has 4 different beams going across the short way that drop down to 5'10" and are each about 1' wide. the other flooring material is berber carpet.. eventually i will rip it out and put in a wood floor, but that won't be for a year or so.. there are 3 block windows throughout the room and 1 egress window in the carpeted area.. the ceiling over the wood floor is double sheetrocked with about an inch of air between the layers. i am not sure of whats going on inside the ceiling above the carpeted area.. i just started using sketchup this weekend so this is the best i could draw up for now.. to thicken the plot i have a decent amount of airplane traffic and noise around the house.. i haven't actually tested with a sound meter or anything yet, but it seems to leak into the basement a bit.. i am pretty concerned about this aspect of the room.. anyone have experiences with this problem? any ideas are welcome. what i am looking for are creative ways to utilize this space, and how to set it up etc on a low budget.. where should i position my desk and do my mixing? can't really track much besides drums on the wood part of the room because the beams running through it causing low ceiling heights.. i'd be willing to throw another wall up or build a room inside of the room.. i do have a nice slab of double paned glass i could incorporate somewhere too. sorry for the lengthy post, but hopefully i have covered most of my bases.. sorry for the low grade photo, but i don't know how to upload the 3d image.. thanks in advance, your time and input is much appreciated..!

welcome! does the sound come through the egress window? for the budget you have - you can likely set up some absorbers to shape a space a bit for mixing. maybe having the desk in front of the egress window so if that is the main source of noise, the remaining space could be separated enough to meet your noise requirements. maybe you have enough to add a partition wall and a door and window (not heavy isolation but some).

thanks for the quick reply gullfo! yeah a lot of the sound is coming in through the egress and i, also, was thinking that might be a good place for the desk to go.. any input on what kind of absorbers i should be researching or how you would shape them? i have been recording for a good while but am new in regards of sound reinforcements and isolation so any help or links to helpful posts would be great.. i will do my best to find stuff on my own here as well.. i was thinking of one of the pieces being a removable absorber to put in the egress opening (maybe on the inside and outside) so when i am not mixing i can let in some light..any thoughts on that? i am guessing some kind of absorber from floor to ceiling in the corners there would be ideal as well.. thanks again!

so i am taking your advice and putting my mixing console/desk in front of the egress.. i am going to make some kind of panel absorber that fills in the egress gap and is removable. then i want to build slot resonators in the corners and have my monitors sit in front of those.. given the size of the wall 7'6" across and 6'6" high, what kind of slot resonator should i build (i.e. what angle?, should it go floor to ceiling?) i am looking to get a real nice balanced mixing room and some isolation from the outside out of the resonators.. are slot resonators the way to go for this..? and then also, whats going to be my best bet for the rear of the room.. you can see in my sketch that the room opens into a hallway by the bathroom and i also plan on having other gear (possibly the organ and other keyboards) in this room as well.. what should i do for treatments there? is it ok to fill in the room with gear? thanks!

maybe this approach? add a bit of wall to the side by the corner into the live room so you can add a set of saw tooth slats on both walls. put as much absorption on the front walls as you can. an angled cloud over the desk (your mostly sitting there) and use 2" scatter absorbers on the ceiling through out. in the live room, same idea - angled small floor to ceiling slats to rbreak up the reflections and add some broadband absorption. one the back of the "CR" maybe build out a wall to level with the live room wall - it may extend your bathroom a bit - then use the remain space as a deep bass trap or a closet.

thanks, this helps a lot.. can i extend that wall a bit by adding something like this http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bass-tra ... -gobo.html same with the wall at the back of the control room..? theres already a closet there across from the bathroom and i don't want to lose the space if i don't have to.. is this a necessary thing to extend the wall there, or is there another solution? i follow what you are saying about the rest of it.. appreciate the sketch and info!

you could just leave the closet as is. the extended wall just extends the symmetrical space on either side of the desk but if the extra 18" is more important to leave open then just do that.

i guess it would just be nice not to have to do any framing or sheetrocking until i am able to put in the wall and window.. would it be beneficial to extend the wall with one of the gobo's or something of that sort and make it symmetrical that way? maybe a custom designed gobo with the saw tooth slats like you drew up.. i'm thinking of using those for now and when i build the other wall i'll always have them around to move about as needed... just wondering if this is a good way to go for now.. also on the that wall theres a heating vent framed and rocked in, so at about 5.5' up theres a 1' by 2' hang over on the corner...if that makes sense.. not ideal i'm sure, but i'll have to work with it..

the gobo idea should work

thanks glenn, i'll post again down the road a bit.. appreciate the insight, this should keep me busy for good while!

edit/edit:) so its been a busy summer and i am just getting around to starting this project.. i have a few questions though.. i am going to be starting in the CR with the wall behind my console (egress window wall).. here are the questions i have at the moment: as i look at the diagram you drew of the room, it looks like there is an empty space behind the monitors between the corner absorbers and what looks to be another absorber in front of the egress window.. does anything go in that space? is the rectangle between the monitors meant to be an absorber over the window? what kind of absorption method can be used on the back wall of the CR since its not symmetrical? right now the organ is there, but i plan on having a love seat in its place. when i cut the slats in the mdf should i just make a template and have them all be the same or do they need to vary? i was looking at john's corner absorbers http://www.johnlsayers.com/HR/index1.htm do you know if the rigid insulation just floats or am i supposed to screw it to something as suggested in other articles? any general advice on constructing the panels? i have been searching through the site trying to get as much info as i can before posting.. i am looking for a step by step guide on building the slat absorbers, and have found a few helpful articles, but any resources you could share would be appreciated. i am probably asking way too many questions, but even if you answered 1, it would be very helpful! here are a few pics (i should have posted from the start) so you can get a better idea of my space.. many thanks for any help!

i've got a general idea of what to do and what better way to learn than just doing it.. i am very appreciative for the time and energy you have put into this glenn.. this site is pretty amazing, thanks john for putting this together! i'm sure you guys are busy designing someones studio that actually pays:) if you do have time to comment down the road, i'll look forward to it!

For me, it looks good . But I have issues with the listening position, the reflection points, the corner broad band absorption that does not exist...you need treatments...overhead cloud, etc.

thanks for the reply xspace! before i fire off more questions... are you saying you have issues with how the room is currently (i do too:) or with the plans that glenn drew up?

"But I have issues with the listening position, the reflection points, the corner broad band absorption that does not exist...you need treatments...overhead cloud, etc." Black and white. what I said was what I meant...I do not see treatments in these rooms..

there are not treatments in this room currently but that is the reason for my post here. don't the saw tooth panels (that glenn drew up) throughout the room act as broadband absorption? or are you saying that its not sufficient treatment? obviously, i am far from a pro at sound treating a room:).....so if you have any advice on what to do to make it better that would be great.. but i am not following you saying that there aren't treatments in this room when the plan shows an angled cloud, scattered absorbers, and sawtooth panels...

Son, Glenn is a good designer and his work is not in question here. what IS in question, and you seem to keep putting words in my mouth, is that I DO NOT SEE TREATMENTS:) You show me where they are and I can move on...because I am not understanding why I keep saying no treatments and you keep saying...all kinds of stuff that really doesn't apply...you feelin' me here?

not feelin you here...:) look earlier in the thread...?

Not looking earlier in the thread...this is my time,...explain what it is you keep going on about.

i'm not sure how to be more clear other than saying that there aren't treatments in the room right now, but i am building them based on glenns plans that exist earlier in the thread.. i understand time is valuable, but if you don't care to look earlier in the thread, respectfully, move on to someone else's thread where you can be of help.. i am here to learn how to treat my studio, not to argue.

Whatever Glenn suggested...DO THAT:) Put the treatments up...you are second guessing his work and your ability...your ability I understand,,,Glenn made solid suggestions. Like Nike says...Just do it, and quit fishing for more help that you do not require at this point. :)

"respectfully, move on to someone else's thread where you can be of help.. i am here to learn how to treat my studio, not to argue." In respect to that...let's you remember what is going on here. You have people doing for you what you cannot do yourself. It is not an argument but an attempt to get those that ask to do what is suggested and to not second guess. You are second guessing a multi-thousand dollar session that you have not spent a penny on, and that irritates me...

for the help i have gotten from this site, which is priceless, i am very grateful.. i was never 2nd guessing glenn, i was just trying to figure out what you were talking about..

YOU SAID " i've got a general idea of what to do and what better way to learn than just doing it..I am very appreciative for the time and energy you have put into this glenn.. this site is pretty amazing, thanks john for putting this together! i'm sure you guys are busy designing someones studio that actually pays:) if you do have time to comment down the road, i'll look forward to it!" I SAID: "For me, it looks good . But I have issues with the listening position, the reflection points, the corner broad band absorption that does not exist...you need treatments...overhead cloud, etc." NO TREATMENTS CAN BE SEEN IN THE PICTURES YOU UPLOADED :) That is all I am saying, I cannot see treatments...please, your killin' me...will you put up the treatments, quite asking these relentless questions that are asking me to say what I already said that you cannot get...it is NOT that difficult :) Make the treatments, do the tests, take more pictures, and lets' see if we can get lost in a whole nother different scenario that takes up more time than any one should be subjected to in the quest for one answer to one question :) Really, it looks fine, do what you already have been instructed. It's not like if you do it wrong it will blow up, it isn't a bomb...and if you F#$%^ it up,,,WE can fix it :)

xspace, we just weren't connecting at all.. you're right i was digging for more help. by posting the pictures of my room, i didn't mean to imply that it was the finished work..but i guess thats how you read it.. i was trying to show more detail to glenn (or whoever) to make sure i was on the right path before i purchased materials.. its underway now. i'll post more pics when i get some treatments in. thanks