I am working on some pics to show what it is I am talking about. I didn't insult anyone...I thought we were all contractors, and that requires thick skin...so if the con in contractor isn't a staple in your neck of the woods...must be nice. I'll answer your last question first. I am not in the habit of showing my resume every time it is requested. I am in construction and that is what I do. When Rod Gervais asked me if I would share the moderator duties at his part of the forum @ recording.org I took it as he is a highly regarded professional/engineer and if he thought I was capable, to use his words "has a strong background in construction", and he didn't need pictures or a resume, then you can bet...I'm not going to break with tradition now :) But, gimme a few days...put the vapor barrier to bed, it's a dead subject, let me get the things out that need to be out and let's move forward, or rather you guys move forward.Insults dont get results dude. They only show intelligence. #1 You called for a VRD and what we need is a barrier. Read your own posts!?! and my response's #2 Recommend a proper isolated joint that will work in this enviroment. And a detail !!! #3 And what the owner wants. Not what you think he should have. #4 Show us some of your projects that you have isolated joints installed in a basement #5 a few people have asked you to post your studio or projects you have worked on!?? ie;qualified! I already showed you mine Peace Tom
Basement Studio Build in Portland OR
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 15580.
Thanks for the concern, Tom! Let's just say times have been "interesting"...
Anyway, I think you are missing what I was trying to say. I'm not talking about "large joints in the floor!" I guess I didn't explain it very clearly, so maybe I can do it better in a pic:
That's the way I would do it, I think. The joint I'm talking about is the one around the perimeter of the new slab. The one that isolates (acoustically) the new slab from the rest of the building. I can't see how you can isolate it the way you were proposing, since you'd have the weight of that "new wall" thingy resting on top of the slab, and I don't think you want to do that.
They way I'm proposing means that the new slab is totally independent from the rest of the structure (which is A Really Good Thing!), and is also easy to isolate with some of that expansion gap filler material. The reason you want to do it that way is so that any vibration in the new floor slab will NOT be transmitted into the rest of the building.
If you are going to all this trouble and expense, you might as well go the extra bit and ensure the best possible isolation you can get. With the slab in contact with the building, you cannot do that. It is only by separating the new slab, as laid out above, that you can maximize your isolation.
I don't see why it would be hard for your contractor to do this. In fact, the "new wall" thingy doesn't even need to extend down as deep as I showed it above, since it isn't supporting any weight to speak of: as long as it goes down a couple of inches next to the new slab, you should be fine.
That's the way I'd do it, if I had the amount of money you are planing to spend here! :)
Understood, but I don't see why that would be an issue if you do the underlay right, and seal it all correctly.And my overall concern is possible failure letting water or moisture in.
Yup! That's what you need all right. But I'm not talking about connections between SLABS (althought that would be fantastic if you could do those the same way too!): I'm talking about connection between your entire new slab and the rest of the building. You do not want to have any hard connections there. That's the issue.you need a rubber gasket of sorts so the connection between the slabs are not a hard connection. Much like a bridge gasket. Or deck gasket.
That's the issue: they should not be hard joints, and the filler should not be rigid! The filler material should be rubbery, soft, flexible, never hardening. Something like caulk. It should acoustically separate the two bits of concrete while retaining an excellent water-tight seal. It can't be hard to to that! Take a look at pages 41 and following in Rod's book, to see how to do it. :) - Stuart -And these will be hard connections. Simply because the material is semi ridgid. Just enough flex for movement but hard enough to hold.