Johns Standard Control Room

Sorry for being away for so long. Been building the eight clouds and 4 wall absorbers. (along with planning a songwriters workshop and multi-performer concert) These are not the 12 absorbers in 20 minutes for $5 I've read about in other threads. Cutting 6 QRD pattern slots in 8 plywood panels was fun. Used a dado blade on a table saw with judicious use of the blade height crank wheel, rather than a router. Worked very nicely. Used iron-on melamine edging on the plywood perimeter rather than putty. Ended up going with a hybrid of both Glenn Stanton designs. Wooden frames from the first design around the 703 instead of the metal beading. Room width and light fixtures required using the small clouds (from design 1) to be placed next to the walls, to leave enough space for the large clouds (from design 2) in the rest of the area. I think it's going to look very nice as well. Total material cost approximately $500 for 8 clouds and 4 wall absorbers. Photos being taken as we go and will upload soon (after the workshop and concert)

Hello. really nice work here. I'm looking forward to see how this project evolves. You can look at my studio design/construction here. Maybe you can find something usefull viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11360

The camera is getting full, but its in the barn and I'm not at the moment. Pictures coming very soon. Promise :oops: Thanks for the kind words Edu. Nice build on your end too. Floods too? Like Glenn told me, good thing you built on the 2nd floor. Clouds are almost done, just mounting them on the slotted plywood so they're just about ready to hang. they are very heavy. Now I am extra glad I went with 16" OC ceiling joists. Also wrapped the cloth around the wall absorbers too. I'm thinking about speaker stands. Can't seem to re-locate all those threads with pictures that showed some sturdy tubular sand filled speaker stands. The search feature is giving me too many results, but no speaker stands. Anyone know of a good speaker stand build thread?

Here are the long promised photos. I think building the room was easier. Cutting the wood for all those frames :shock: . I felt like Rain Man in the diner scene. 246 tooth picks. And that all those slots in the plywood, made a lot of kitty litter. But they turned out pretty good.

More photos

Loved the "finger" pic! :shock: :!: :lol: (At least you had good glue to put it back together...) - Stuart -

But walking around with the clamp on until it cured was annoying

they make smaller finger clamps so you're not inconvenienced :twisted: nice work.

Thank you Glenn. Guess its time to hang em and test again. I can definitely hear flutter between the rear side walls. Need to make speaker stands, and set up the speakers in the aprox correct positions, then do the mirror test and hang wall absorbers. Any help on the easy good speaker stands? I can't seem to relocate the threads. :?

cement blocks, fill any openings with insulation and cover in cloth. cap the top and bottom with wood. put the stack on 1/2" carpet foam (dense) to decouple. under the speaker, 1/2" carpet foam (dense).

Far out and solid. (Really solid). Couldn't be simpler. Thanks Glenn.

I built my stands similar to what Glenn suggested, but knowing that they would be a "moving" part of the environment, I cut sheetrock to fit around the sides of the block and glued the pieces to the stacks of block, that I had also glued together. You can finish the corners with conventional corner bead and mud or cut some thin trim and install that to the corners for a more stylish look. Sure, they are heavy, but still my weak arms can move them around to that ideal spot. Which recently became the shed outside. And a small hand truck never hurt anyone when moving them from inside to outside or vice versa.

Thanks for the tips Brien. Gluing it all together might help prevent "oops, you knocked over my blocks". What do you recommend for an adhesive? Liquid nails or sub floor adhesive, furnace cement :wink:

Yes, any of the described mentioned will hold the blocks together and the exterior sheathing, e.g. sheetrock sleeve, will reinforce the connection.

I picked up the cement blocks today and set em' up and did a little listening and a sine wave slow manual sweep. I've got some very obvious room modes I can hear at approx 68 Hz and 2x (136 Hz) at the listening position and forward. This correlates to the numbers you'd expect running the math. The room interior dimensions ended up at L= 16.083 feet width = 13.25' (wide part of room) height = 7.25 This is a 1:1.71:2.08 room. The speakers are set up in the prerequisite equilateral triangle currently with 6 foot legs. (that sounds funny) Listening position is 38% back from the front wall. While I'm waiting for help to hang the clouds... How do I further optimize the speakers and or listening positions, (if it's possible)? Is this bass build-up in the front something that can be fixed with acoustic treatments? Bass traps? Or is it too soon to tell? Wait until the existing treatments are installed? (Right now they're just lined up along the walls, sitting on the floor.)

Fine tune the listening position by moving it back or forward - always testing at each position. Also try moving the speakers forward and back. At each position you can reestablish your equilateral triangle, but don't be afraid to experiment - you can change the aspect of LP to Speakers from 60° up to 90°, many prefer the 90° configuration stating that it gives a wider sweet spot. (George Martin said in an interview that he would often stand right in between the speakers for a listen - an aspect of much greater than 90°. This of couse gives a very wide image similar to headphones, not recommended as a mix position per se, but useful nonetheless.)

Thanks. I was wondering as a rule of thumb, is it better to have the speakers closer to the front wall or further back? Same question for the side walls. Is there a starting place rule of thumb?

Is it better to have the speakers closer to the front wall or further back?

The answer is: YES! :) Seriously, as with a lot of things in acoustics, it all depends. If the room is large, then get the speakers several meters away from the walls. But if it is small, then the best position is most likely right up against the front wall, and as far as possible form the side walls, but equidistant from them. But the best of all, regardless of room size, is just to soffit mount (flush mount) the speakers. That way, there are no walls, as far as the speakers are concerned... - Stuart -

Thanks Stuart, That give me a better starting point. Soffit mounting is an option that slipped off the plate a while back and is no longer possible due to design choices (mistakes I made) Maybe a silly question, but would attaching a very large faceplate (bezel) to a stand mounted speaker improve performance. Psort of a pseudo psoffit :wink: or is that just a goofy idea?

Maybe a silly question, but would attaching a very large faceplate (bezel) to a stand mounted speaker improve performance. Psort of a pseudo psoffit :wink: or is that just a goofy idea?

Not convinced that would work too well, without the rest of the "box" attached. But if you have space to do that, then how come you don't have space to do the soffits? :shock: - Stuart -

If you go back to page 8 and look at picture 056 you will see the ventilation duct up top and the very small side wall space between the door and the front wall.

best bet is to start out with them close to the wall and move them out a bit at a time - checking for seating effects - i.e does you're sitting position make a difference versus the monitor position? while modes and SBIR can be tricky to separate, the changing of your seating position and having the response change is usually indicative of the room modes whereas little change in the response might be SBIR. so moving the speakers relative to your listening position and having a response change usually indicates the boundary interference is the dominant factor. a couple of ways to approach this is lots of testing with REW or using subjective opinion to determine the best fit. since your ears are pretty good at detecting sound, start with a subjective placement, and once you think its close, take some measurements and make some smaller adjustments as well as changing your seating position to see how much room you have to move before the response if significantly changed. the treatments will definitely help and if you can put them into place, it will help in determining what other steps are needed. you might find a large trap up front and above the clouds can help.

Well, the clouds are up and to say they make a difference is an understatement. WOW! I'd be happy if I didn't do anything else. The rooms sounds better than any space I've ever had. So now I'm really pumped to see what a difference the fine tuning makes. I've spent the last week putting the desk, equipment and wires back together. Also picked up an APC40 controller for Ableton, and another cheap motorized fader midi controller for Cubase which is added to the existing one. So I've been playing, I mean working with my new toys... I mean gear. Already have one of my musician helpers asking for the first recording session. He thinks the room looks great, like it was plucked out of a major city and stuck into my barn. Thank you again for all your help. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yes, I have pictures and will post them. (But today's project is rebuilding the woodshed. Backhoe is due any moment, then well be mixing cement.)

Finally had a minute to upload a photo. As you can see the clouds are up and the room sounds great. I've spent some time modifying the desk, removed the keyboard slide and bought a wireless keyboard for the computer. Already had one recording session in the room and the results were excellent. The people said it was the best sound they had ever heard on the finished product. The room sounded great while they were singing live in it too. Warm and natural. Which is encouraging because I yet to do the mirror test and hang the wall absorbers.

I'm looking forward to our 6 months of winter so I can focus on the studio again. (The project slowed down to a crawl during the summer because of outdoor construction priorities, and now I have 6 cord of wood to cut, split and stack) But now that things are hooked up and I'm starting to use the room and equipment I can hear the need to finish the acoustic treatment to take care of some high frequency reflections. Those clouds that Glenn designed are simply awesome. I haven't measured yet but difference is huge and the results are very pleasing. Thank you Glenn....AGAIN! And thank you John Sayers for this forum. To be continued.