Personally, I'd change the speaker angle... Keep them in the middle of the soffit, but angle the entire soffit a bit more.
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EDITED TO ADD: Since originally writing this a few years back, I have since learned that the speakers should NOT be in the middle of the soffits, but rather offset to one side or the other, in order to avoid creating peaks and nulls in the frequency response. It seems that a position about 2/5 of the width is good. They should also not be centered vertically, for the same reason. That said, you do still need a lot of surface on all sides of the speaker. - Stuart -
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Exterior wall concept
Originally posted at johnlsayers.com, topic 15096.
Doesn't that then take all the space for the window? Or do yo mean bring the speakers and soffits forward and leave a hole where the window would go? The MAIN thing i need to know right now is if i need to change the 38% line, even now that would be a pain in the butt as i have the conduit laid.Personally, I'd change the speaker angle... Keep them in the middle of the soffit, but angle the entire soffit a bit more.
To get an idea of what I mean, imagine that your speaker soffits are actually doors with their hinges next to the window they aren't REALLY like that, of course! Its just to give you the idea of what I'm trying to say). OK, so now if you "open" or "close" those door-soffits, then it changes the angle of the entire soffit, so that the speaker points more "down" the room or more "across" the room. If the door-soffits were fully closed, then the speakers would be directly facing the rear wall, firing parallel to each other. If the door-soffits are fully "open", then the speakers would be pointing directly at each other.
So, all you do is open/close the door-soffits until you find the perfect angle so that the speakers are aimed exactly at your ears when seated at the mix position, which means that the acoustic axes of the speakers will intersect a few inches behind your head. So your ears would be roughly at the 38% position (which is only a guideline anyway!), and the axis intersect point would be a bit further back than that. The intersect angle would be somewhere between 60 and 90 degrees.
Not sure if that made it any clearer!
- Stuart -
Rays are like the RoadRunner. They are short and fast and hit things quick. But every time it hits something, a hard boundary, it will lose energy that departs to the boundary. Rays are the easy ones to manipulate with treatment...they can get sucked up quick. If it is 8 or 9 or 2 iterations, this I cannot say with any authority, but they will lose energy. As a matter of listening position, these are the ones that give us the most issues with human hearing. Certainly low frequency can dominate a room since you cannot often tell where it is and depending on the room size/shape, know how to correct it. More broadband is always an answer, sometimes that works, sometimes not. I guess the only one thing I can say for certain is this. If my listening position is corrupt with early reflections, then I can not make a proper mix. The rest of this stuff is Greek to me, I'm just trying to learn the language :)So essentially the logical path of ray travel, though some rays may take that route, is of no use at all, is that your point? Because rays travel in a cone or some similar shape, respond differently to the surface on reflection depending on the frequency, and the type of surface, and depending on frequency the ray may expire to a non critical volume(12db or less than departure) long before it ever makes the later reflections anyway. Does that sum it up mostly?
I think it did, my main concern is that i have to move the listening position forward and end up sitting on the power and xlr runs junctions (in the floor) which i presently have situated in front of the mixing board , which is in front of the 38 percent position. I guess for safety i might as well just move those up closer to the front so that doesn't happen. It's kind of no mans land on the floor up there anyway.To get an idea of what I mean, imagine that your speaker soffits are actually doors with their hinges next to the window they aren't REALLY like that, of course! Its just to give you the idea of what I'm trying to say). OK, so now if you "open" or "close" those door-soffits, then it changes the angle of the entire soffit, so that the speaker points more "down" the room or more "across" the room. If the door-soffits were fully closed, then the speakers would be directly facing the rear wall, firing parallel to each other. If the door-soffits are fully "open", then the speakers would be pointing directly at each other. So, all you do is open/close the door-soffits until you find the perfect angle so that the speakers are aimed exactly at your ears when seated at the mix position, which means that the acoustic axes of the speakers will intersect a few inches behind your head. So your ears would be roughly at the 38% position (which is only a guideline anyway!), and the axis intersect point would be a bit further back than that. The intersect angle would be somewhere between 60 and 90 degrees. Not sure if that made it any clearer! - Stuart -
Got the slab in, finishing up some exterior work while the weather is still sane.
Here are some recent pics...
Looks like you got one a dem Ghosts in your first photo :shock:
Quick send a copy to ghosthunters :lol:
I think it's an alien!!! :shock:
- Stuart -
Yeah they are all over up here.
You get used to them, although they can be a pain in the ass when you don't feel like playing their little games.
I'm joking of coarse..
Please let us know how everything worked out here. I always learn from others projects. It looks like quite the sizable space. If the soundproofing isn't quite what you hoped, the thing that has helped me the most with this the most is layers. It looks like it would still be big enough to do this if needed. Building a wall and then having air space and building another inner wall is what I have found to be most effective when soundproofing. It's like what Momma always used to say. Dress in layers to keep warm ;)
It's a long way from 'letting you know how everything worked out'. I hope to have the building warm, and the CR and bathroom finished by next spring though, so keep checking in. As for the outer walls, i think my plan(formed with the help of some helpful forum members) is sound and will suffice nicely. Quick recap of design= -outer wall of main rec room from outside inwards; 3/8" cement board(flat sheets)-5/8 exterior drywall-1/2 osb-13" airspace- (on separate inner wall) vapor barrier- 2 layers 5/8th drywall. Ceiling- Kinetics Model IsoMax hangers- steel stud grid- 2 layers 5/8th DW with GG between.Please let us know how everything worked out here. I always learn from others projects. It looks like quite the sizable space. If the soundproofing isn't quite what you hoped, the thing that has helped me the most with this the most is layers. It looks like it would still be big enough to do this if needed. Building a wall and then having air space and building another inner wall is what I have found to be most effective when soundproofing. It's like what Momma always used to say. Dress in layers to keep warm ;)
Hey everyone, long time no yack.
So i have a question regarding connecting the inner double wall to the ceiling.
-If the outer wall is the frame of the building and the inner 2x4 wall of a MAM structure connects to the same ceiling(the trusses actually) and the ceiling is pitched at a 4-12 angle, how would you go about keeping the inner wall decoupled?
Or is it that important and if so how important?
The floor connection is concrete.
So far this seems to be the best solution to connect the top plate to;
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/unibrace.aspx
I don't understand why you'd want to do that! The entire concept of fully-decoupled MSM "room-in-a-room" is that there is no contact at all between the inner and outer leaf. The inner "room" is built as separate, free-standing structure: four walls with a ceiling on top. The new inner-leaf ceiling ONLY touches the new inner-leaf walls. There is no need for it be attached to the outer leaf at all.-If the outer wall is the frame of the building and the inner 2x4 wall of a MAM structure connects to the same ceiling
Simple! Don't couple it! :) Just build the inner four walls and the inner ceiling together, as a separate, independent structure. No contact at all with the existing structure (the outer leaf).how would you go about keeping the inner wall decoupled?
Extremely important! If your inner leaf is hard-connected to your outer leaf at any point, then your isolation is severely compromised.Or is it that important and if so how important?
Well, you COULD do something like that if you don't need maximum isolation, but the question is, why WOULD you, if you have that huge space available to you, with nothing in the way? Why not just design the entire inner leaf structure such that it maximizes height and volume WITHOUT needing to touch the existing outer leaf? - Stuart -So far this seems to be the best solution to connect the top plate to;
The inner wall will not be supported by a new truss system it will need some isolated support.
The ceiling will be 2 layers of drywall with GG in between on hat track on isomax clips to trusses.
This is really confusing. First you say there will be no trusses, then you say that the ceiling will be hung from trusses! :shock: :!: So which is it? Trusses or no trusses? There are no trusses visible in the photo of the existing structure, which implies that, if you are going to hang the ceiling from trusses, then you will be putting up trusses for the new inner leaf. But then you say you wont have trusses. But then you say you will have them... - Stuart -The inner wall will not be supported by a new truss system it will need some isolated support. The ceiling will be 2 layers of drywall with GG in between on hat track on isomax clips to trusses.
whew, my apologies. The ceiling you see in the pic is actually poly on trusses strapped with 1x4, those are the trusses the hat track will connect to. The main structure ceiling trusses at a 4-12 pitch.This is really confusing. First you say there will be no trusses, then you say that the ceiling will be hung from trusses! :shock: :!: So which is it? Trusses or no trusses? There are no trusses visible in the photo of the existing structure, which implies that, if you are going to hang the ceiling from trusses, then you will be putting up trusses for the new inner leaf. But then you say you wont have trusses. But then you say you will have them... - Stuart -The inner wall will not be supported by a new truss system it will need some isolated support. The ceiling will be 2 layers of drywall with GG in between on hat track on isomax clips to trusses.